Knife Sharpening

gman

gman

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Graham
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I came across some posts about half a decade ago (that sounds longer than it should) but maybe people have changed or upgraded since then?

I used to use one of those cheap pull through sharpeners but they seemed to wreck the knife, so I invested in a Lansky Deluxe Diamond Sharpening system. After a little bit of practice I'm getting very sharp knifes, although not as razor sharp as I'd like. Does anyone else use this system and do you have any tricks or tips? I quite like the sharpie trick but that's the only one I know.

Does anyone else sharpen their own knives and what are your experiences with your chosen system?
 
I use an old fashioned steel - it can produce very sharp knives, but sometimes the edge can become rough and break up.
 
I have been sharpening my own knifes for longer than I care to remember get a decent whetstone I personally like to use a 1000/6000 combination stone and a decent honing steel to keep the edge.
 
The problem with the Lansky type sharpeners particularly, with small knives, is that you can struggle enough to get an acute enough edge angle to get a really hair popping edge although you should get to the level most people call sharp. The best answer is to get a decent set of stones (but they take practice to get proficient with) and importantly finish off with a decent strop loaded with honing compound (you can buy them ready made but better and cheaper to make your own). I made knives for several years as a hobby and I’ll warn you that sharpening is something it’s easy to get obsessive about but it’s also important to bare in mind that to a certain degree the sharper you get the blade the less durable it will be (all things being equal). If you change just one thing make it to finish sharpening with the strop (the Lansky one isn’t the best though) and make regular use of it to maintain the edge :)
 
I would agree that a whetstone will achieve the sharpest knives and I have a double sided one that I’ve used in the past but I found a few drawbacks - it takes a lot of time and 'faffing about', you really need to do all your knives in one session, it’s messy and it’s difficult to keep the knife at the required angle on the stone. Having used a stone for a few years, I recently bought a 'pull through' sharpener to quickly and conveniently give my knives a sharpen.

On a separate note, I’ve always thought a 'steel' (as butchers use) is used to straighten or 'true' a knife edge rather than actually sharpen it.
 
I use a steel, works fine for me (y)
 
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Some interesting stuff to think about. I've also been considering some wheels but read something about hot spots?
 
IMG_0023.JPG I use a Minosharp. Seems to work, but I don’t have anything to compare it with.
 
I use a diamond steel, same as any other steel but impregnated with extra fine diamond dust. I can get an edge sharp enough to shave with in a few strokes, but if you nick the edge it can take a while to get the edge back.
 
The first thing to understand is the difference between sharpening and honing. Google it.

With a good blade it's worth using a leather strop too.
 
mj4456 said:
sorry what is this? ta.
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I saw it in a YouTube video, the guy would use a Sharpie pen to draw along both sides of the blade at the sharp bit, then when you sharpen you know when you've gone far enough because the pen mark will be removed.

I've found it to be useful when it's a very dull blade or if re-profiling to a new angle, but for the fine sharpening I'm finding it better to use touch and tomatoes lol
 
mj4456 said:
sorry what is this? ta.
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gman said:
I saw it in a YouTube video, the guy would use a Sharpie pen to draw along both sides of the blade at the sharp bit, then when you sharpen you know when you've gone far enough because the pen mark will be removed.

I've found it to be useful when it's a very dull blade or if re-profiling to a new angle, but for the fine sharpening I'm finding it better to use touch and tomatoes lol
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A little like "revealer toothpaste" ;)
 
I just use a steel also, I have two very old cutting knives in the kitchen and the steel brings them up a treat, I think my main meat knife is 30 years old.
 
Cheers guys, I did wonder if this was the idea, like using 'engineers blue' when scraping bearings.
 
If you're talking about kitchen knives, than a basic sharpening stone works fine. Don't bother getting it 'sharp enough to shave with'; all you are doing is creating a finer than necessary edge, which is more delicate and prone to damage, and will need honing a lot more often. Utter waste of time. Use a razor for shaving; far finer steel of a totally different grade. Sharpen to a useable edge, for cutting meat etc, and keep it honed with a steel. A steel, as mentioned above, straightens up the cutting edge of all the microscopic dents and undulations that occur with use. It doesn't 'sharpen' a knife. But a decent quality, well sharpened blade can hold its edge and only need honing, for a long time. Give yer steel a rub down with a bit of fine wire wool now and then, as particles of rust can collect in the groves. Bit of cooking oil on it helps prevent the steel itself rusting.

It's a kitchen knife. Not a precise surgical instrument. Don't get anal about it.
 
My feeling too is expressed above, just how sharp do you need?

Having played around with a stone myself and getting a very sharp edge on a knife (after quite a bit of time and effort) I came to the conclusion that 'sharp enough' ie not that sharp was good enough for most jobs in the kitchen and I can achieve that with a relatively cheap sharpener kept in the drawer.
 
I find diamond stones and a somewhat steeper edge angle better for kitchen/utility knives; compared to razor sharpening. I use a ceramic honing rod to finish/maintain the edge... it might be a bit more wasteful (abrasive) than using a honing steel to align the edge, but I only have to go back to the diamond stones if an edge gets a chip in it (which happens more than it should at my house :( ).
 
Cartus said:
My feeling too is expressed above, just how sharp do you need?

Having played around with a stone myself and getting a very sharp edge on a knife (after quite a bit of time and effort) I came to the conclusion that 'sharp enough' ie not that sharp was good enough for most jobs in the kitchen and I can achieve that with a relatively cheap sharpener kept in the drawer.
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Ideally, so that the food slices itself just at the mere sight of me reaching for the knife. :D
 
As some one into joinery and turning Sharp tools are essential. and that goes for every bladed tool that I own down to my Wenger pocket knife that is always razor sharp..
I have the necessary stones for each, some diamond, some man made and some natural, they all have their purposes.
However I do not spend much time sharpening. The appropriate edge can be touched up in a minute or two at the most. and about four times that when a new profile needs to be ground on a wheel. It is not what you grind away that does the cutting it is what you leave. The angle of the bevel is often as important as the edge. On turning tools the edge is often as not, hollow ground, and the edge left as it comes off the grind stone. it is only on the finest finishing cuts that I use an edge that has been fine finished and then usually only on skew chisels.

Joinery Plane blades and chisels on the other hand are usually finished after stoning on a leather dressed with Autosol. which gives an almost instant polished razor edge.

Kitchen knives are ground with a very long taper bevel between 20 and 25 degrees, depending on usage, and then with a cutting edge between 25 and 30 degrees.
They are never finished to a polished edge. Delicate foods like tomatoes are much more easily sliced thinly with an edge that has a micro saw finish, as produced when straightening an edge with a fine steel. I use a steel very regularly never letting the edge fade, but only sharpen with any sort of stone every year or two. Touching up with a steel rarely takes more than two or three strokes.
I bought my steel when we were first married 65 years ago, it would easily serve another life time or two. Steels should not remove metal. their purpose is to straighten an edge. However you can buy coarse cut steels whose purpose is much the same as a grind stone but they are difficult to use without ruining a perfectly good blade by grinding a hollow down their length, rather than a convex edge.

An edge finished with a steel is perfectly capable of slicing tissue paper down from its edge. and be able to slice see through tomato or cucumber. with out the slightest difficulty. the same type of edge is suitable for cutting most meats. but not frozen anything where a more brutish heavy blade is better with a cutting edge of nearer 30 degrees. or for hard frozen meats a stainless saw ismuch better.
 
Just bought one of these for my workshop tools, but I just can't resist the chance to give our kitchen knives a quick pass.
Aldi wetstone Sharpener
I've been looking at the Tormek and Japanese wetstones at Axminster Tools for years.......maybe one day!
 
billy nomates said:
Just bought one of these for my workshop tools, but I just can't resist the chance to give our kitchen knives a quick pass.
Aldi wetstone Sharpener
I've been looking at the Tormek and Japanese wetstones at Axminster Tools for years.......maybe one day!
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Is that a guide to ensure the angle of choice is maintained? How have you found it?
 
Cartus said:
My feeling too is expressed above, just how sharp do you need?
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Innit doh.


Sky said:
For kitchen knives, I like them to be sharp enough to easily slice a warm tomato without squashing it.
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This is possible without sharpening to a razor's edge.


Terrywoodenpic said:
As some one into joinery and turning Sharp tools are essential. and that goes for every bladed tool that I own down to my Wenger pocket knife that is always razor sharp..
I have the necessary stones for each, some diamond, some man made and some natural, they all have their purposes.
However I do not spend much time sharpening. The appropriate edge can be touched up in a minute or two at the most. and about four times that when a new profile needs to be ground on a wheel. It is not what you grind away that does the cutting it is what you leave. The angle of the bevel is often as important as the edge. On turning tools the edge is often as not, hollow ground, and the edge left as it comes off the grind stone. it is only on the finest finishing cuts that I use an edge that has been fine finished and then usually only on skew chisels.

Joinery Plane blades and chisels on the other hand are usually finished after stoning on a leather dressed with Autosol. which gives an almost instant polished razor edge.

Kitchen knives are ground with a very long taper bevel between 20 and 25 degrees, depending on usage, and then with a cutting edge between 25 and 30 degrees.
They are never finished to a polished edge. Delicate foods like tomatoes are much more easily sliced thinly with an edge that has a micro saw finish, as produced when straightening an edge with a fine steel. I use a steel very regularly never letting the edge fade, but only sharpen with any sort of stone every year or two. Touching up with a steel rarely takes more than two or three strokes.
I bought my steel when we were first married 65 years ago, it would easily serve another life time or two. Steels should not remove metal. their purpose is to straighten an edge. However you can buy coarse cut steels whose purpose is much the same as a grind stone but they are difficult to use without ruining a perfectly good blade by grinding a hollow down their length, rather than a convex edge.

An edge finished with a steel is perfectly capable of slicing tissue paper down from its edge. and be able to slice see through tomato or cucumber. with out the slightest difficulty. the same type of edge is suitable for cutting most meats. but not frozen anything where a more brutish heavy blade is better with a cutting edge of nearer 30 degrees. or for hard frozen meats a stainless saw ismuch better.
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Terry knows what they're talking about. Pay attention to Terry.

Knife sharpening is one of those activities that can be filed under 'blokes trying to prove their manliness' type behaviour. It's kind of similar to men banging on about 'Swiss Chronometers' and blethering on about 'exquisite workmanship', when what they really want is a status symbol to try to assert their social 'status' to other men... IT'S JEWELLERY!

Watch how the blokes in the kebab shop sharpen their knives. They are real men.
 
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A lot of the problems arising from keeping kitchen knives sharp are down to the fact that modern knives are mainly made of stainless steel which has a very large grain structure, as a result when you hone it to a fine point the grains tend to break off making the knife go dull quickly, also it’s very difficult to get them really sharp in the first place. If you could get one, a carbon steel knife will produce and maintain a much sharper edge but it will go rusty
 
I think all my kitchen knives are at 20º but I decided to reprofile one of my larger knives to 17° just for experimental purposes, I appreciate it's a bit too extreme for general kitchen use. It took a while but I got there in the end and I've got it to the point where it will effortlessly glide through an orange but not so sharp that it will shave arm hair. I hone it after each use and so far it's held its sharpness, although it's only been a few days! lol

I quite fancy getting a wheel for my axe and other tools, plus the lawnmower. At the moment I use my Dremel which isn't ideal at all.
 
The Romans did not often use sharpening stones they used a hammer and small anvil.
They simply reformed the edge of drew out a new one. As a result their tools and weapons were not ground away. Yet they could still produce a razor edge when needed.
 
Graham W said:
Look up Japanese knife sharpening (Or similar) on Youtube...they take to a whole new level!
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Most of the youtube sharpening vids are either to sell unnecessary expensive stuff or for fanatics who want to show off but never actually use their blades for anything practical. Like most things, sharpening should be quick easy and effective. Any thing else is missing the point.

Japanese whet stones do an excellent job however they are very soft and you need to keep them flat with a special stone, the other problem is that they are wet and messy and water can rust tools unless you take care. oil is just messy but keeps rust away.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
Most of the youtube sharpening vids are either to sell unnecessary expensive stuff or for fanatics who want to show off but never actually use their blades for anything practical
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True dat. Like you can spend hundreds of pound on one knife, for culinary purposes. Absolute waste of money. go to any top restaurant kitchen, and see what they use there. Not über expensive nonsense.

I recently needed a proper decent larger kitchen knife. Went to John Lewis and tried a few out for handling. Bought a Robert Welch 18cm cook's knife. The handle fits my small hand very well, making it more comfortable to use. It's a decent forged German stainless steel, and holds an edge very well with just a quick few seconds honing once a week or so. To me, comfort in use is far more important than being able to shave a gnat's pubes or whatever it is these sharpening fanatics do with their knives. It was fifty two pounds, which is quite a lot, but if I look after it, it may well see me out. I'll hopefully get a couple more after Lockdown@ is over (can't buy knives online from JL). But another favourite knife is a little Victorinox green plastic handled thing I actually found in the street ( I think it had cut itself out of a plastic bag after being bought). Cheap and cheerful, but nice and sharp, holds an edge reasonably well. Does the job. And that's the point; it's a tool. It's not jewellery, or a symbol of masculinity, or any other pretentious nonsense. Learning how to cook will get you far more Man Points™ than a block of never used fancy kitchen knives...
 
I have to be honest, I've never really looked upon sharpening knives as having any relation to machismo; could it not just be a hobby or passion for some?

I just want to get my knives and tools sharp so they work better. The can of diet coke stays in the fridge :D
 
As with a lot of things; the better the skill of the user, the better the tools required, the better the results attained.

I used to have good knife (and sword) skills, both in the kitchen and the field. Now my old arthritic hands can just about manage a chef's knife with enough dexterity to slice a tomato (on a good day).

The rule is simple; the right tools for the right hands.

Only those with no skills would argue that lesser tools are good enough . . .
 
I use something very similar to THIS. Came free with a knife I bought at a trade show some years back. Only used the carbide side once (to get an edge on an old penknife) and run the kitchen knives through the ceramic side gently when the knives need a sharpen. Gets things sharp enough to cut tomatoes without pressure and that's plenty good enough for me! Got assorted other things that will get knives sharper but the gizmo above does it in seconds and needs almost no setting up (get it out of drawer, put on edge of work surface, use, put back in drawer!)
 
Sky said:
Only those with no skills would argue that lesser tools are good enough . . .
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I'm sure Cordon Bleu or whatever his name is, that bloke off the telly, the bald one who swears a lot and is from Essex and licks chocolate off spoons, that one.; would argue with that. Someone with talent can achieve great results with the most basic resources.
 
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