Large Format

Joenail

Joenail

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Joe
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I'm selling my car & thinking of using the money to get a large format set-up. The only problem is I have absolutely no idea what to get. I've heard good things about M.P.P, and, of course, Linhof, & Sinar. Any advice at this stage would be a great help, particularly where to buy/do some research. I'm not really looking for a 'starter' set up, more something that'll last me a while & I won't have to upgrade until it breaks.

Here's a basic list of what I'm thinking:

-Camera - Definitely a field camera, not a monorail or press. I'm looking at M.P.P, Tachihara and Shen Hao. Something with decent movements, hence not wanting a press camera, front & rear shift would be good. Bellows that will allow me to do some (very) close up stuff.

- Tripod - Obviously Manfrotto or Gitzo, but that's all I know. Definitely something sturdy (duh!) and a not-too-expensive 5x4 head.

- Lens/lens board - I'm thinking maybe a 100mm and maybe a 220 and 150 depending on cost

- Something that I don't know about yet!

Cheers,

-J

P.S, my budget is around 900 quid, but I'd like enough left over for a decent spot meter.
 
Hi Joe,

1st things 1st, what do you want to use the camera for? The end use is going to affect the model somewhat, with things like maximum bellows extension affecting how long a lens you can use. Unless you're going to be trying some very exact product or architecture work, I would suggest getting as rigid a rear standard as you can (I have rear swing and that's it for example) as it's much easier to keep everything lined up that way

A good resource for basic info is the information pages on largeformatphotography.info They also have a forum with some pretty amazing work in it as well (y)

Lens wise, there's lots to choose from, and most of it is very useable. Most Schneider/Nikon/Rodenstock/Sinar etc lenses are all pretty good, and thankfully not that expensive (relative to other stuff obviously). Ffordes have a reasonable selection with a warranty. ebay isn't a terrible source either, provided it's coming from a reputable seller, just remember to check the shutter speeds are fine before buying as the shutters are pretty expensive on their own

Other bits and bobs to think of are film holders, a lens wrench and possibly retaining rings, a dark cloth, a big enough change bag, a way of developing film, a nice meter, a small tape measure (useful for bellows compensation), a loupe (can't believe i remembered a tape measure before a loupe:bonk:), shutter release cable(s), and probably even more stuff I've not thought of

It's a wonderful world full of more ways to ruin a shot than you can possibly imagine, but it's the best way of making pictures there is :D
 
raathistle said:
Hi Joe,

1st things 1st, what do you want to use the camera for? The end use is going to affect the model somewhat, with things like maximum bellows extension affecting how long a lens you can use. Unless you're going to be trying some very exact product or architecture work, I would suggest getting as rigid a rear standard as you can (I have rear swing and that's it for example) as it's much easier to keep everything lined up that way

A good resource for basic info is the information pages on largeformatphotography.info They also have a forum with some pretty amazing work in it as well (y)

Lens wise, there's lots to choose from, and most of it is very useable. Most Schneider/Nikon/Rodenstock/Sinar etc lenses are all pretty good, and thankfully not that expensive (relative to other stuff obviously). Ffordes have a reasonable selection with a warranty. ebay isn't a terrible source either, provided it's coming from a reputable seller, just remember to check the shutter speeds are fine before buying as the shutters are pretty expensive on their own

Other bits and bobs to think of are film holders, a lens wrench and possibly retaining rings, a dark cloth, a big enough change bag, a way of developing film, a nice meter, a small tape measure (useful for bellows compensation), a loupe (can't believe i remembered a tape measure before a loupe:bonk:), shutter release cable(s), and probably even more stuff I've not thought of

It's a wonderful world full of more ways to ruin a shot than you can possibly imagine, but it's the best way of making pictures there is :D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Chris.

I'll be using it mainly for landscapes I'd imagine (architecture orientated stuff as well as muddy hills), but portraits and macro will be a close 2nd/3rd. Basically everything I can use it for, I will. Because I've never used one before it's making it a lot harder for me to figure out what's worth paying extra money or not. I normally have a couple of months to play with a format/type of camera before actually getting one of my own. I do know I like to have a lot of buttons and switches to play with though :D I suppose I'll have to annoy some shop owners by trying everything they have for a week or so!

I've been doing my own film for the past 9 months or so & have access to a 5x4 enlarger & colour & B&W dev stuff, so that isn't a problem.

One thing though - what is a lens wrench & retaining rings?

Thanks again,

-J
 
The retaining ring is used to hold the lens on the lens board, which then fits into the front standard. It's this that makes the lenses entirely interchangeable. Some sellers dont include a ring when they sell you a lens, and they can be a bit of a pain to find. The wrench (or spanner to us this side of the pond) is used to tighten the ring onto the lens
 
Keep an eye on the large format forums and ebay. Bargain cameras do turn up sometimes. But to be honest, the Shen Hao would be more than enough to get started with. I know woodsy bought one recently and loves it. It will have more than enough movements to keep you happy for a good while.

I bought my Wista DX for £500ish quid second hand and it was in mint condition.

I think Chris covered everything you need (apart from bottomless pockets for colour shots at £3+ per shot)

RE: Lenses...... I have found I always want longer rather than wider (fnarr) Wide is strange on 5x4. Widest you can probably use realistically on a field camera is 54mm, (65 or 72mm with some movements) Although the field of view is wider, you still keep the relative perspective of that lens so the relationship between near and far objects is not what you would expect. E.G. 90mm on 5x4 is equivalent to about 28mm on 35mm in fov terms, but still compresses perspective the same as a 90mm lens on 35mm. Conversely, 240mm still isn't long enough sometimes and that's at maximum bellows extension on my camera, so no focusing closer than infinty!
 
Joe, there are some useful looking articles and reviews on Maganchrom if you haven't come across them already. I wish Magnachrom was still going..
 
You might also look at: Chamonix

A more local forum to the largeformat one mentioned is lf-photo -- it might be worth asking on here whether there's anyone local you could tag along with and try some lens combinations before you start building out from a lens that doesn't suit.
 
Thanks for the replies folks.

Maganchrom & lf-photo are great. Lots of useful information there that's likely to delay my purchase! I've been lookin at Chamonix, but struggling to find anything in my price range. I've found a few good looking deals, but I don't really know what's good & what's bad in LF. I know I'm probably pushing it a bit, but would anyone be able to tell me what seems like the best value for money/what camera I'll get the most out of?

-Wista 45D - £360. No lens or board.
-Nagaoka Seisakusho Tokyo - £440. No lens or board
-TACHIHARA 4X5 - £550. No lens or board -
-MPP Micro Technical Mk8, 150mm f5.6 and 6 holders - £585

I know it's very much a personal decision & I normally wouldn't ask for this much advice, but I really know nothing about LF cameras so I'm a bit scared I'll get ripped off. I'm thinking the MPP might be best since it'll save me buying lens/board/film holders, etc.

Thanks again.
 
It's probably a 1 time purchase so take your time and research all the options.
I bought a large format last year and went for a Toyo 45AII perfect location camera for landscapes and portraits. I picked it up for £470 from ebay japan. Second choice was a Shen Hao.
A 90mm and 150mm lens should see you right for 95% of uses unless you want to do tight headshots where a 210mm is better and more flattering.

(My most used lens is the 150mm)
Pick up a few 2nd hand dark slides, a light meter and you are good to go.
America is a good place to search for stuff, just watch out for import duty and VAT on top of the price.

£900 is plenty to get you started, it's a personal choice but I would go Toyo/Wista/Shen hao over the MPP.
 
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I would write off the MPP given your requirements for movements. I have a mk7 and it's much more of a press camera than a field camera. The front standard is also not wide enough for many of the more modern lenses, which is really annoying. It could be a good learner camera for you, but only in very basic movements and principles

I'm not familiar with the others, but I'm sure someone else will be. If you search for the models and get American forum results, prepare to be vastly dissapointed at the price stuff costs over here compared to over there :(
 
Ok, MPP is a no go after your comment and a bit of research, thanks. Looking at ebay USA now and WOW it's cheap! I've found a few cameras that look ideal for about 500$ with lens & various other things. Wista 45D now seems like the one I'll be purchasing.

Thanks a lot for the help, much appreciated. I'll no doubt have a new question by tonight :D

-J
 
Right, I've came up with another question before I go & buy something - what's the deal with doing close up work with large format? As far as I know, you can focus as close as the bellows will allow (as with my Mamiya C33), so what would be a decent max. extension? Ideally I'd like to go close enough to photograph things the size of flies and small bugs, but without compromising too much weight. Is a macro lens really necessary is what I think about the bellows is true?

Thanks for the link Liam, seriously considering that but not sure about it for the reasons above.
 
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To get macro I think (really not sure so check) you can reverse the lens or extend the bellows/rail.
Problem is, as you extend the bellows beyond a certain length you have to increase the exposure, if using daylight then this may make it impractical.

A studio camera will do it no problem, my Toyo will as well, with extensions. A field camera though isn't ideal for macro work.
 
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