Legal position re sending batteries through the post

valb

valb

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Does anyone know for sure if it is permitted to send camera batteries that have been opened and are not sealed in their original packaging through the post. Royal Mail web site does not seem very clear. I think it can be done if they are in the camera but not if they are sent loose.

Anyone?
 
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valb said:
Does anyone know for sure if it is permitted to send camera batteries that have been opened and are not sealed in their original packaging through the post. Royal Mail web site does not seem very clear. I think it can be done if they are in the camera but not if they are sent loose.

Anyone?
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That is exactly what I read last time. If you try to buy some batteries from the likes of 7dayshop you will notice that you have to pay for expensive specialist courier :(
 
I am sure you can buy new without problems. For example see Amazon's website re posting new batteries. There seems no problems. I think the problem starts when the battery package has been opened. The way I read the guidance is that you can no longer post a battery unless it is in the camera.
 
I was wondering this. On another forum, I am involved in a travelling camera project where a camera is posted around the world with each recipient taking a couple of shots and sending it on.

The camera was posted to me last week and now it's time for me to send it on. The Post Office website only mentions alkaline batteries in their original packaging and other type in equipment. It doesn't state that alkalines cannot be shipped in a camera but it doesn't say they can either.

I think a simple description of 'vintage camera' will do in my case!


Steve.
 
Probably worth downloading the Royal Mail PDF and taking a printed copy in with you when you want to post some.

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_Leaflet_July2013.pdf

The rules as they (currently) are:

Batteries, specifically new and used lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device - Not allowed.

Electronic devices sent with lithium batteries
(including mobile phones, digital cameras, etc) where the battery is not connected to the device.Packaging guidelines: The maximum number of lithium batteries allowed in each parcel is the minimum number required to power the device plus two spares.
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And

Batteries that are classed as dangerous goods by the latest edition of the International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO) Technical Instructions are prohibited. This includes wet spillable lead acid/lead alkaline batteries (such as car batteries), used alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air batteries, and damaged batteries of any type.

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries when not sent with, or contained in/connected to an electronic device, are prohibited.

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions. Please seewww.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods.

For more information on lithium batteries please see the IATA Lithium Battery Guidance Document .

Sealed lead acid batteries are allowed in the UK, but are also subject to packaging, volume, quantity and labelling restrictions. Please seewww.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods

Alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH) and nickel cadmium (NiCd) batteries may only be sent when new and in their original packaging. Please see www.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods
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Dave1 said:
Probably worth downloading the Royal Mail PDF and taking a printed copy in with you when you want to post some.

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_Leaflet_July2013.pdf

The rules as they (currently) are:



And
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You seemed to have missed out what appear to be the key words from the text.

"Lithium ion/polymer batteries sent in isolation are prohibited. Please see www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods/business".

As I read this it suggests that we cannot send these batteries at all unless they are either in the camera or in their original unopened packaging.
 
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valb said:
You seemed to have missed out what appear to be the key words from the text.

"Lithium ion/polymer batteries sent in isolation are prohibited. Please see www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods/business".

As I read this it suggests that we cannot send these batteries at all unless they are either in the camera or in their original unopened packaging.
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More like you missed that bit Val ;).

The very first line of my quote makes that point.
Batteries, specifically new and used lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device - Not allowed.
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There is nothing in the rules about "original unopened packaging", it says
The equipment sent with cells or batteries must be packed in strong rigid packaging and must be secured against movement within the outer packaging and packed to prevent accidental activation
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You're right I did miss the first point.:)

I appreciate there is nothing in the rules about "original unopened packaging" but I was referring to batteries sent on their own not when included with equipment. New unopened packaging containing batteries seems to be the only legal way to send these batteries (otherwise Amazon etc could not sell them).
 
I can't find where I saw it (so could have just made it up ;)), I was under the impression that batteries (by themselves) from Amazon are now sent via non-Royal Mail carriers.
 
so totally fed up with royal fail that unless its a small letter sized package i rarely use them ,i now tend to use a company called COLLECT PLUS ,open a account with them online ,put in your destination details ,they give you a exceedingly generous size and weight limit ,you can pay via credit card or paypal ,print out the label .pick out a local shop in there scheme to drop it off and take there i choose 24 hour next day del.never let me down yet and sent three cameras and two lenses with them .PLUS its tracked properly in real time and insured l .AND NO STUPID SILLY QUESTIONS ABOUT BATTERIES ,oh and on a large box its a lot cheaper than r.m to :woot::woot:
 
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the black fox said:
so totally fed up with royal fail that unless its a small letter sized package i rarely use them ,i now tend to use a company called COLLECT PLUS ,open a account with them online ,put in your destination details ,they give you a exceedingly generous size and weight limit ,you can pay via credit card or paypal ,print out the label .pick out a local shop in there scheme to drop it off and take there i choose 24 hour next day del.never let me down yet and sent three cameras and two lenses with them .PLUS its tracked properly in real time and insured l .AND NO STUPID SILLY QUESTIONS ABOUT BATTERIES ,oh and on a large box its a lot cheaper than r.m to :woot::woot:
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Fully agree with the comments re Royal Mail.
 
Dave1 said:
I can't find where I saw it (so could have just made it up ;)), I was under the impression that batteries (by themselves) from Amazon are now sent via non-Royal Mail carriers.
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I got a battery for my Lumix G from Amazon last week, Hermes delivered it, free delivery though,previously all came with Royal mail, so you are correct.
 
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Our business is selling laptop batteries, camera batteries, power tool batteries etc and Royal Mail will not take lithium ion batteries at all unless they are contained inside a device.

This includes new, packaged batteries.

Why they think it's more safe when connected to a device is beyond me, but we have also had to move all our battery shipping to a courier because of this.

We've also had a customer who returned a battery to us via Royal Mail. Royal Mail intercepted it and kindly destroyed it.
 
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valb said:
Does anyone know for sure if it is permitted to send camera batteries that have been opened and are not sealed in their original packaging through the post. Royal Mail web site does not seem very clear. I think it can be done if they are in the camera but not if they are sent loose.

Anyone?
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You can send camera batteries with royal mail if they are in the camera, plus you can send 2 spares in the same package, but they must be completely enclosed.

See here http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods

...and it must have a special warning label put on it.

You cannot send batteries on their own.
 
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I posted a camera with a battery included, no problem once I had declared it and they stuck an appropriate sticker on the parcel

Apparently if undeclared batteries are found the goods are confiscated/destroyed

One of those take a chance if you want to situations, but tough luck if you get captured
 
Just to prove you can get caught out if they are not posted under their guidelines, I had 4 Canon BP11 type batteries confiscated and received a letter warning me that I could have been prosecuted.
They were sent in their guards, wrapped individually in bubble wrap, taped to card then wrapped again in bubble wrap in a large Jiffy bag. I can only assume they must have x rayed the package in some way to discover there were batteries in the bag.

I did not include a return address but they could make out my address that was already on the s/h jiffy bag under the new address label:oops: :$

Luckily they were not 3 X Canon LP6 as sold in the classifieds today !!.
 
I see an increase in value for old film cameras purely as electronic equipment to send batteries with!
 
I recently had a replacement battery from Canon, the new one and the old one were collected/delivered by courier. Canon informed that they couldn't be sent through the mail.
 
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Interesting read, batteries will be sent using collect plus
 
It depends what you mean by "in the post". It's clear that royal mail won't take them if they know what it is, or will confiscate them if they find out afterwards that it is batteries. However courier companies etc will deliver them so I don't think there is an issue. Just need to avoid using royal mail for sending batteries unless in a camera
 
You know RM were really struggling to compete against the cheaper couriers (hmm, shall I walk 2 miles to the closest PO with a 7 kilo parcel, queue up all day and then pay a tenner to send it - or shall I call Hermes and have them come collect it for 7?)

then they came up with this idiocy.

It's like they want to lose the business.

I understand why they have the rules (short version: they like to fly stuff around) but I don't shop at Starbucks because they ask my name*. Won't be long until I don't shop at the PO because they insist on knowing the contents of everything I give them before saying it's basically uninsured.

-----
* also, bad coffee and high prices. And I'm sure I'm boycotting them about something else but I lose track.
 
All i know is every time i go to post say a little parcel,i get asked what in it,is it battery,drive me mad :banghead:
 
JonathanRyan said:
I understand why they have the rules (short version: they like to fly stuff around)
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And therein lies the problem, these are not Royal Mail rules but rather CAI rules and a lot of RM post goes by air.

Steve
 
I recently returned a camera under warranty and sent the whole lot back as I wasn't sure if they were going to replace the camera or send a complete new kit.
I told them it was a faulty camera but no questions were asked about batteries.
I bet a great many get sent by RM one way or another.
 
As poster above has identified, the issue is batteries going on planes. Apparently there have been a number of explosions/fires caused by lithium batteries. Anyway, the rule is that when sending a camera you can have one battery inside the device and two additional batteries in original packing. They then put a warning sticker on the parcel. Obviously the ones I've sent weren't really in original packaging, but I haven't seen any issues.
 
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4wd said:
I recently returned a camera under warranty and sent the whole lot back as I wasn't sure if they were going to replace the camera or send a complete new kit.
I told them it was a faulty camera but no questions were asked about batteries.
I bet a great many get sent by RM one way or another.
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Yep for some reason your allow to send a battery in the post if its in the camera, also you can send a spare if its also in the camera box. :)
 
Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries when not sent with, or contained in/connected to an electronic device, are prohibited.

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions. Please seewww.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods.

Semantics, but it doesn't say in the above that it has to be the electronic device that the batteries are for, i.e. batteries plus any electronic device in the same package = ok?
 
Same here, I have noticed in the last few months same questions at post office. But I usually make sure that they are in the correct item they are for when posting.
 
these threats of prosecution must surely be bogus as well? as they are not laws just rm rules
 
So, I have 5 or 6 Nikon EN-EL15s surplus to requirements, what can I actually do with them? I presume selling them here or eBay etc is out of the question unless somebody is happy to collect them?
 
ukaskew said:
So, I have 5 or 6 Nikon EN-EL15s surplus to requirements, what can I actually do with them? I presume selling them here or eBay etc is out of the question unless somebody is happy to collect them?
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just send them by courier?
 
wontolla said:
just send them by courier?
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Which one? I've not found one that I can use easily that will touch them. There is a guy selling Fuji batteries in the Classifieds that also hasn't been able to find a company that will accept them.
 
We send a lot of batteries via collect plus. Their terms say they are prohibited, but we've never had a problem. Pack them properly and just drop them off at you local participating store. They never ask what's inside.

With regards to RM prosecuting, I doubt it would come to this but they most certainly will destroy your batteries if found. We've had a couple of customers ignore our warnings when returning batteries and they have been destroyed.

This isn't really a RM rule, but more a CAA rule which I believe is law. As a lot of RM stuff goes via plane, they have simply put a blanket ban on them.

What I find really crazy though is the assumption then inserting them into a device will suddenly make them any safer than if they were packed in bubble wrap.
 
ukaskew said:
Which one? I've not found one that I can use easily that will touch them. There is a guy selling Fuji batteries in the Classifieds that also hasn't been able to find a company that will accept them.
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ecoleman said:
We send a lot of batteries via collect plus. Their terms say they are prohibited, but we've never had a problem.
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CollectPlus should be fine for batteries as they don't list batteries (of any kind) in their list of prohibited items for carriage.

Articles not carried
  1. We shall not be required or caused to carry or convey anything if such carriage or conveyance would be unlawful.
  2. We shall not carry gases, pyrotechnics, arms and ammunition or corrosive, toxic, flammable, explosive, oxidising or radioactive materials or any other noxious, dangerous or hazardous goods or goods likely to cause damage.
  3. We shall not, without specific written agreement, carry works of art, artwork, musical instruments, ceramics, deeds, tender documents, documents of every kind including passports, stamps, securities, vouchers, money, prescribed drugs, precious metals, livestock, liquids, foodstuffs, perishable goods, glass, bullion, coins, precious stones, fossils, stoneware, resin items, amber, composites, valuable jewellery, valuable antiques or plants or plant seeds or derivatives
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http://www.collectplus.co.uk/terms-and-conditions
 
ecoleman said:
What I find really crazy though is the assumption then inserting them into a device will suddenly make them any safer than if they were packed in bubble wrap.
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Not sure how they check when its a package but certainly for carry-on baggage its not enough that the batteries are in a device, they must be charged to allow the device to be switched on. Apparently, this is the airlines way of checking the 'battery' is just that and not a trojan horse for something more sinister.
 
iPhoto said:
Not sure how they check when its a package but certainly for carry-on baggage its not enough that the batteries are in a device, they must be charged to allow the device to be switched on. Apparently, this is the airlines way of checking the 'battery' is just that and not a trojan horse for something more sinister.
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Two totally separate sets of rules though, and for completely different reasons, one is for security with regard to terrorism and the other is a new set of rules for air freight carriage regarding H&S.
 
niko said:
these threats of prosecution must surely be bogus as well? as they are not laws just rm rules
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It's a declaration to the RM who will then make the declaration on your behalf to the airline and so on.

I'd be amazed if, under the current regime, a false declaration about flying potentially combustible devices isn't terrorism.
 
JonathanRyan said:
It's a declaration to the RM who will then make the declaration on your behalf to the airline and so on.

I'd be amazed if, under the current regime, a false declaration about flying potentially combustible devices isn't terrorism.
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I doubt it, as the paper/cardboard its wrapped in is potentially combustible. they can't legalize for every product that might bust into flames. if you where paying for an airmail delivery then a declaration of contents might be legally needed but if rm decide to fly it around in country that's there doing. I just think its the start of them trying to charge more for so called dangerous goods, something along the lines of we will only carry it in are special fire proof and expensive packaging.
 
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