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It missed me by 6 inches
Low flying vulture
- Thread starter Fred Dawson
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It missed me by 6 inches
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Good shot, but the background is very distracting.
My advice would be to cut the buzzard out of the image and put more of a dramatic or plain background in.
My advice would be to cut the buzzard out of the image and put more of a dramatic or plain background in.
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Jason it's a vulture not a Buzzard 
Background is difficult to work with but the problem is more the cropping is way too tight and the wing tips have been cut off.
I don't think there is much you could do with this as an artifical background wouldn't really improve the shot as such.
A retake choosing the time to take the shot with regards to the background is more the thing to do
Background is difficult to work with but the problem is more the cropping is way too tight and the wing tips have been cut off.
I don't think there is much you could do with this as an artifical background wouldn't really improve the shot as such.
A retake choosing the time to take the shot with regards to the background is more the thing to do
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My advice would be to ignore taking photos of trained/captive birds if this is the best you can do.
A wild bird would probably give you a much more pleasing image and a reason to develop your skills.
Hi Fred ,
My post of a similiar vulture got same response from Chris ( above) , all fine to get wild birds but alot easier to practise with these trained birds , afterall they all fly in 30-45min time span how long would we stand in the wild to see the same and get to take any shots ??
All the same Chris is probably right......unfortunately
Keep at it , that was the advice given to me
David
My post of a similiar vulture got same response from Chris ( above) , all fine to get wild birds but alot easier to practise with these trained birds , afterall they all fly in 30-45min time span how long would we stand in the wild to see the same and get to take any shots ??
All the same Chris is probably right......unfortunately
Keep at it , that was the advice given to me
David
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Practising on birds with predictable flight paths will teach you nothing.
The only way to learn is to practice on the wild stuff - not only only will you learn patience, you'll learn stealth (field craft) and learn more about how the birds actually behave. Not only that, when you do get "the shot" it will be so much more satisfying.
As for "standing in the wild for 30-45 minutes", if you want great bird shots that's what you'll have to do.
The only way to learn is to practice on the wild stuff - not only only will you learn patience, you'll learn stealth (field craft) and learn more about how the birds actually behave. Not only that, when you do get "the shot" it will be so much more satisfying.
As for "standing in the wild for 30-45 minutes", if you want great bird shots that's what you'll have to do.
Hi Chris ,
I didnt mean that these birds are in anyway ideal , but for myself as a complete newbie , a bird with a predictable flight path means I can concentrate on the camera and panning and settings etc . Then when I master this I will have no hestitation standing out all day for the wild shot.
The tame setting gives umpteen birds in a short period flying predictable patterns in which to practice on , its a bit of a bummer to stalk in on a heron , stand around for ages and when he takes off find that you have completely ballsed the shot(s)
I agree it will hopefully be a complete high when it comes together
Hope Im not p*****g you off as I did value your crit and it only makes me more determined to get something that you will approve of!
David
I didnt mean that these birds are in anyway ideal , but for myself as a complete newbie , a bird with a predictable flight path means I can concentrate on the camera and panning and settings etc . Then when I master this I will have no hestitation standing out all day for the wild shot.
The tame setting gives umpteen birds in a short period flying predictable patterns in which to practice on , its a bit of a bummer to stalk in on a heron , stand around for ages and when he takes off find that you have completely ballsed the shot(s)
I agree it will hopefully be a complete high when it comes together
Hope Im not p*****g you off as I did value your crit and it only makes me more determined to get something that you will approve of!
David
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Not at all David and you shouldn't be aiming to please anyone but yourself (least of all me).
Perhaps it's my complete and utter dislike of falconry and birds in captivity that coloured my comments, but you'll never convince me that shooting at these birds is anything other than a poor (and very sad) substitute.
dinners
In Memoriam
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I'd beg to differ here Fred.
If birds in flight are new to you then I wouldn't worry about the perfect 'wild image' but make use of captive birds (big and small) to learn for yourself which settings give you the results you want with the kit you have.
No point in wasting hours waiting when you've willing subjects to help you learn. You will learn more in a day than you could in a year trying out on wild birds.
If birds in flight are new to you then I wouldn't worry about the perfect 'wild image' but make use of captive birds (big and small) to learn for yourself which settings give you the results you want with the kit you have.
No point in wasting hours waiting when you've willing subjects to help you learn. You will learn more in a day than you could in a year trying out on wild birds.
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Hi Fred
I am a little surprised at the semi harsh comments here, I would suggest that honing your skills at places like this are a good thing especially when you start to track some of the faster rapters. Look to isolate the birds away from obvious distractions like the crowd in your shot, try and take them in isolation against the sky or tree ect, play with DOF and shutter to work out how best to use your camera. I live about 5 miles away from the hawk conservancy here in Andover and commend the work they do with endangered species of which the Vulture is one that has been decimated by pesticides in the country or origin.
They have successfully bred and released Red Kites back into the wild and work on many projects both in the UK and abroad, in my opinion it is a great way to garner support from people who have no chance of seeing these birds in the wild. Once you have mastered this you can move on to camping out for that elusive wild shot.
Hope this helps
I am a little surprised at the semi harsh comments here, I would suggest that honing your skills at places like this are a good thing especially when you start to track some of the faster rapters. Look to isolate the birds away from obvious distractions like the crowd in your shot, try and take them in isolation against the sky or tree ect, play with DOF and shutter to work out how best to use your camera. I live about 5 miles away from the hawk conservancy here in Andover and commend the work they do with endangered species of which the Vulture is one that has been decimated by pesticides in the country or origin.
They have successfully bred and released Red Kites back into the wild and work on many projects both in the UK and abroad, in my opinion it is a great way to garner support from people who have no chance of seeing these birds in the wild. Once you have mastered this you can move on to camping out for that elusive wild shot.
Hope this helps
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A'int many wild vultures in Worcester,but I think you are being very harsh on Fred who has taken a shot that pleased him.
So what that it is not taken in sandy wastes of the middle East ,or some other location.
Stop being so blooming pompous ,I had a fabulous couple of hours at a captive bird place last year and came back with some terrific images,including the expressions of the audience and sheer enthusiasm of the Falconer.
So much so my missus bought me a private tour ticket which will be enjoying soon.
Of course as they are not "wild" will not dare post them for fear of upsetting the "proper" bird photographers on here .
Am I bovverd ,nah.
Kit, Brownie 127,Getty Images Staff Tog,if only.
Pons
So what that it is not taken in sandy wastes of the middle East ,or some other location.
Stop being so blooming pompous ,I had a fabulous couple of hours at a captive bird place last year and came back with some terrific images,including the expressions of the audience and sheer enthusiasm of the Falconer.
So much so my missus bought me a private tour ticket which will be enjoying soon.
Of course as they are not "wild" will not dare post them for fear of upsetting the "proper" bird photographers on here .
Am I bovverd ,nah.
Kit, Brownie 127,Getty Images Staff Tog,if only.
Pons
Unfortunately there are a few posters on here who are a bit OTT with their comments and it does put new users and some existing user to the forum off posting photos and comments, I no longer bother to post as I find the forum a little "clicky" but thats my opinion. I hope you had a good day out and enjoyed watching the birds, personally I like the shot, nice one Fred. Totally agree with Chrispons comments above.
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i am not sure why people are so against captive bird shot.. can you tell me if a bird flies any slower in the wild than it does in captivity?? a sakker falcon is JUST as hard to capture in captivity when flown properly ( and allowed to fly as near as it can as if it was in the wild) as it is in the wild, most of the good BoP centres also deal with rescue birds and helping to breed the endangered ones. as has been mentioned look at the work done with red kites in the last few years
and its also been mentioned, where are we likely to get a chance to shoot a vulture in this country? or a wild harris's hawk, or a american kestral, the list is endless.
i was at a great BoP centre yesterday and came away with shots i am really pleased with and i dopnt really care that they are captive birds!
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=238878
onto the picture, the bird is in focus while in flight which is good and the setting and background whilst busy gives context, there is also enough separation so that the bird isnt getting lost in the background its a tad over exposed but there is nice rim lighting so all in all its not a bad shot at all well done.
and its also been mentioned, where are we likely to get a chance to shoot a vulture in this country? or a wild harris's hawk, or a american kestral, the list is endless.
i was at a great BoP centre yesterday and came away with shots i am really pleased with and i dopnt really care that they are captive birds!
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=238878
onto the picture, the bird is in focus while in flight which is good and the setting and background whilst busy gives context, there is also enough separation so that the bird isnt getting lost in the background its a tad over exposed but there is nice rim lighting so all in all its not a bad shot at all well done.
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I'm not going to get into a falconry discussion with someone who "doesn't care" whether birds are captive or not. "a sakker falcon is JUST as hard to capture in captivity when flown properly" That's crap.
As for not being able to see these birds in the wild, well if you can't afford it that's just tough $h1t. We have plenty of raptors free-flying in the British Isles for you to practice your "skills" on.
Oh, and it's spelled "Saker" and "Kestrel"
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A good effort Fred, you did well on the hardest bit - getting good focus on the bird. The clipped wing tips can be easily overcome with slight differences with your technique, here capturing very slightly earlier. As the Vulture is not indigenous to the UK the bird is always going to be captive and hence the bg is always is always going to be down to personal taste. Grant has posted a good example of how an alternative bg can be achieved.
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hmmm didn't know this was an English lesson my mistake. no i dont care if the birds are in captivity or not... and guess what i dont even care if it spelt right or not. who said anything abotu not being able to afford to go and see the birds in the wild. money was never mentioned. I dont have to explain my reasons but obviously its a motivational factor to some. each to their own.
so your saying a captive bird flies slower than a wild bird. ok a SAKER was an example.... but having seen sea eagles, golden eagles, red kites and the common and garden Buzzard ( and that was tonuge in cheek i DO realise you dont get garden buzzards! lol) to name but a few all flown in captivity and flown in the wild, and they all fly the same speed as each other,. obviously in captivity you have a slightly better idea of where they will fly........ but not all the time........ for example yesterday, a SAKER was flown prob the best part of 500 feet in the air, but usually he goes to well over 1000 too far to be seen so i fail to see why it makes it any easier........... they flew a tawny eagle....... he disappeared completely...... we had no idea wht direction he was coming nin nor where he went until he suddenly appeared..... so i guess sometimes we have an idea of flight line but other times we dont. and we dont all have hours to spend studying the flight and behaviour habits of certain birds, a friend of mine studys and shoots wild birds and can be out all day... and yes he has phenomenal shots and not once does he use the snobbery aspect of saying that someone shooting captive birds " shouldnt bother"
is it not rather arrogant to assume that cos you do something a certain way that doing it differently is somehow less or wrong?
so your saying a captive bird flies slower than a wild bird. ok a SAKER was an example.... but having seen sea eagles, golden eagles, red kites and the common and garden Buzzard ( and that was tonuge in cheek i DO realise you dont get garden buzzards! lol) to name but a few all flown in captivity and flown in the wild, and they all fly the same speed as each other,. obviously in captivity you have a slightly better idea of where they will fly........ but not all the time........ for example yesterday, a SAKER was flown prob the best part of 500 feet in the air, but usually he goes to well over 1000 too far to be seen so i fail to see why it makes it any easier........... they flew a tawny eagle....... he disappeared completely...... we had no idea wht direction he was coming nin nor where he went until he suddenly appeared..... so i guess sometimes we have an idea of flight line but other times we dont. and we dont all have hours to spend studying the flight and behaviour habits of certain birds, a friend of mine studys and shoots wild birds and can be out all day... and yes he has phenomenal shots and not once does he use the snobbery aspect of saying that someone shooting captive birds " shouldnt bother"
is it not rather arrogant to assume that cos you do something a certain way that doing it differently is somehow less or wrong?
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So I guess it's Chris's way or the highway.
In all seriousness I have just been looking through some of your pictures on your webs site, some crackers there, so I do start to understand your stance on captive birds, I don't agree with it for reason stated elsewhere but I do understand where you are coming from. I think it's your condescending tone and dismissive nature that grates somewhat and has done so on many other posts here on TP.
Perhaps you should start posting some of your pictures to give others a little background to where you are comming from and please............ be a little nicer
In all seriousness I have just been looking through some of your pictures on your webs site, some crackers there, so I do start to understand your stance on captive birds, I don't agree with it for reason stated elsewhere but I do understand where you are coming from. I think it's your condescending tone and dismissive nature that grates somewhat and has done so on many other posts here on TP.
Perhaps you should start posting some of your pictures to give others a little background to where you are comming from and please............ be a little nicer
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You may or may not be a good Bird photographer,Chris,and to be truthful I cannot be arsed to look:shake:such is your arrogance and rudeness,but frankly this is a photography forum,not a bird one,so kindly fly back to your lofty perch and eat some nice chill pills and leave us lesser mortals who just like taking decent pictures,be it Vultures,Horses,Rally cars or whatever floats our boat.
You are the weakest link,goodbye !
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Wow...........
My twopenneth, take shots of captive birds if you wish, but put them in the correct section
" Nature : Pets, Plants & Trips to the Zoo"...........section above this one.
This section is for wild birds, nothing pompous nor arrogant about that.
My advice would be to got to the nearest freshwater or seaside if that is nearer,practice on ducks,geese,gulls and the like.The varying flight patterns will help you improve faster than a captive bird flying to a perch or a glove. Just my opinion......
My twopenneth, take shots of captive birds if you wish, but put them in the correct section
" Nature : Pets, Plants & Trips to the Zoo"...........section above this one.
This section is for wild birds, nothing pompous nor arrogant about that.
My advice would be to got to the nearest freshwater or seaside if that is nearer,practice on ducks,geese,gulls and the like.The varying flight patterns will help you improve faster than a captive bird flying to a perch or a glove. Just my opinion......
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It is the bird section of a photography forum though...................:shrug:
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ok dont want to hijack it but this is a bird section " for all birds of the world" it doesnt state anywhere for wild birds..... in fact the nature section states for all things wild...... i posted my own pics in here as it states birds. maybe a mod can clarify the position as im not really bothered either way where it gets posted but it would be nice to know we are posting the right things in the right place
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Wow...........
My advice would be to got to the nearest freshwater or seaside if that is nearer,practice on ducks,geese,gulls and the like.The varying flight patterns will help you improve faster than a captive bird flying to a perch or a glove. Just my opinion......
Good advice Ade
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ok dont want to hijack it but this is a bird section " for all birds of the world" it doesnt state anywhere for wild birds..... in fact the nature section states for all things wild...... i posted my own pics in here as it states birds. maybe a mod can clarify the position as im not really bothered either way where it gets posted but it would be nice to know we are posting the right things in the right place
Nature : Pets, Plants & Trips to the Zoo (1 Viewing)
All your zoo shots, your pets and captive creatures. Oh, and your pot plants and garden shots.
Though a lot of captive birds do get posted in the Bird forum, many people ignore them, unless they're feeling like a rant that is
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You may or may not be a good Bird photographer,Chris,and to be truthful I cannot be arsed to look:shake:such is your arrogance and rudeness,but frankly this is a photography forum,not a bird one,so kindly fly back to your lofty perch and eat some nice chill pills and leave us lesser mortals who just like taking decent pictures,be it Vultures,Horses,Rally cars or whatever floats our boat.
You are the weakest link,goodbye !
Yep, that's pretty much what I expected. Personal attacks.
Classy.
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Nature : Pets, Plants & Trips to the Zoo (1 Viewing)
All your zoo shots, your pets and captive creatures. Oh, and your pot plants and garden shots.
Though a lot of captive birds do get posted in the Bird forum, many people ignore them, unless they're feeling like a rant that is
okies ta for that
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As for which forum to post what photos, let's be honest it's a pretty poor set of parameters. I mean, the Birds forum comes with the description "and winged animals of the world". That'll include bats then will it?
I'm sorry if my posts come across as "arrogant and rude", that's not their intent. I'm going for "perceptive but blunt"...too often people are scared to say what they think on here (and in life) well you're just going to have to get used to (or ignore) my comments. Either is fine by me.
I'm sorry if my posts come across as "arrogant and rude", that's not their intent. I'm going for "perceptive but blunt"...too often people are scared to say what they think on here (and in life) well you're just going to have to get used to (or ignore) my comments. Either is fine by me.
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I've had a quite word with myself and d'you know what I said? "the 'attitude police' are wielding the big stick. Tell them to lighten-up".
As long things are kept clean and impersonal what's the problem?
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Matt
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well what can I say? Two moderators against little ole me...
I'll continue to post as I see fit and appropriate. I will refrain from making personal attacks (unlike some on here) but I will not have my attitude or opinions dictated to.
If you feel it necessary to revoke my posting privileges then you must do what you think is right.
I'll continue to post as I see fit and appropriate. I will refrain from making personal attacks (unlike some on here) but I will not have my attitude or opinions dictated to.
If you feel it necessary to revoke my posting privileges then you must do what you think is right.
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Chris, I am very blunt, some people think i`m rude, some people think i`m honest. I am no role model, but sometimes you are ****ing harsh bud,even harsher than I.
For that, I thank you...............
For that, I thank you...............
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We're not dictating your opinions if you actually care to read what matty said. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they are (within reason of course) free to put it forward. However, we can, and will, dictate the attitude within posts. Post constructively and politely, and without arrogance or self-importance and everyone will get along just nicely.
We strive to make this a friendly community. Two key words there, friendly....and community. You can either sit on the sidelines poking in with a sharp angry stick, thrusting your beliefs and opinions on people when theyre not wanted nor warranted, or you can actually help constructively. Your choice. Do the former and we'll respond with an even bigger stick.
Do the second and we shall welcome you with open arms. That's all we ask.