Mathers false advertising?

scottduffy

scottduffy

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I bought a Fuji XE1 from Mathers on Sunday night as they were the only one of the cheapest 5 on Camerpricebuster which actually had the camera in stock. It stated delivery in between 2-3 days. Next morning i got a call saying they didn't have stock and it will be roughly a fortnight. I was a bit miffed but didn't see the point in cancelling the order when the other had no stock either. I just looked at their site and they're still advertising this combo in stock with delivery between 2-3 days. I think this is very poor when they don't have the stock and it would certainly put me off using them again.
 
I understand your frustration, but it's a fairly common thing with many sellers, unfortunately.
Whenever possible I always ring first before placing an order to check stock. (obviously not possible out of hours)
 
I would have rang them but it was Sunday night and I had put off buying this for long enough and finally decided to jump in. I wasn't too bothered if I'm honest but I think it's really poor that they're still doing it.
 
Seems pretty standard these days, until they take the payment there's no contract so they keep you dangling until they have stock, it also works the other way as they can sell you a camera then they have to wait 2 weeks to see of they're getting it back and up to a month before it actually has to be returned.

For a small retailer the distance selling regulations are a nightmare because profits are small and in effect you're trading a month behind as you could get it all back losing money rather than making it
 
I suppose you're right Darren. I would have actually preferred to buy it from Jessops as i could have collected it instore and returned it there should anything go wrong but chose Mathers because Jessops had no stock !! More fool me.
 
wack61 said:
Seems pretty standard these days, until they take the payment there's no contract so they keep you dangling until they have stock, it also works the other way as they can sell you a camera then they have to wait 2 weeks to see of they're getting it back and up to a month before it actually has to be returned.

For a small retailer the distance selling regulations are a nightmare because profits are small and in effect you're trading a month behind as you could get it all back losing money rather than making it
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Distance selling regs changed in June to protect the retaillers a little bit more from the buy and try brigade, in fact theyre now called Consumer Contracts Regulations, basically if you buy something and return it because you change your mind you must return it unused, if you use it the retailler can make a charge for the losses he might make if he has to resell the item as used
 
Luckily for them i have not intensions of returning it unless it's faulty of course. I'm all for small business protecting themselves but they should be up front and honest about their stock. It leaves a bad impression thats all. Hopefully it will arrive within the 10 days as if it doesn't im pulling the plug and thats already been 5 counting today.

The crazy thing is i couldn't even back out and get a better deal on the classifieds. The free lens deal means that if i sold both lenses to buy the 56mm as i might do for over £400 then i would be getting the body brand new for roughly £150-£160 which is the same as second hand ones. A great deal in my opinion IF you can find it in stock.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
Distance selling regs changed in June to protect the retaillers a little bit more from the buy and try brigade, in fact theyre now called Consumer Contracts Regulations, basically if you buy something and return it because you change your mind you must return it unused, if you use it the retailler can make a charge for the losses he might make if he has to resell the item as used
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It's an awkward one, as how do you know you like the Camera without testing it? I suppose it makes sense with something like a jumper, as you can simply look and feel it. But there again if you put the jumper on and go out in it, it then becomes used. But if you try the jumper on in the house just to test the fit, does this still come under used?
 
Sharky said:
You're not buying a camera to try it out, you rent a camera to try it out, you buy to own it.
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I could have worded my post better

That is correct of course, but I was just asking from a distance selling/buying point of view. Never bought a camera or equipment via this method, I have always opted to go to a shop. Have a good look at the camera/equipment and buy there and then.

It would certainly annoy me if I had a shop, and people used stuff and simply asked for their money back ( free rental )
 
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The problem in this case is there's nowhere in can try it in a shop. Jessop don't have it and neither do Currys or anywhere else I've called. I have tried John Lewis too. I basically have no option but to order it online and hope for the best.
 
Theers nothing to stop someone advertising a whole array of stock.. without having any in.. just wait for someone to buy somehting then make them wait while you source it cheaper and send to them... where do you get it cheaper? hong kong and takes about 2 weeks :(
 
KIPAX said:
Theers nothing to stop someone advertising a whole array of stock.. without having any in.. just wait for someone to buy somehting then make them wait while you source it cheaper and send to them... where do you get it cheaper? hong kong and takes about 2 weeks :(
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If they time it right, they can even use the customers own money to purchase stock. Good business idea that is :)
 
Sharky said:
You're not buying a camera to try it out, you rent a camera to try it out, you buy to own it.
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Exactly. The rules are supposed to mirror what you'd be able to do in a shop. Most shops will have dedicated demo equipment but, if not, they may allow you to open a newly boxed one to inspect if they feel you're a genuine buyer, but they're not going to let you push off for a few days with it to see how you get on with it then expect to return it for a full refund afterward.

This provision of the DSR was grossly unfair to online retailers and many chose to ignore it and refuse to offer full refunds for obviously used equipment. A change was due. As Sharky says, they're not a rental service - if you buy something, use it but then decide you don't like it then tough, you're not entitled to a full refund.
 
The issue here though is that someone who has no intention of returning the equipment has been conned into buying from someone when my preferred method would have been to buy it on the high street. If Mathers were honest I'd have gone with Jessops as I could have collected so far from being a smart idea they've put me off using them again. Once bitten and all that. It can't make good business sense to put customer's off buying from you.
 
Oh of course - I wasn't referring to your situation in any way, I was just commenting on the regulations.

Regards your specific situation, I think you have every right to be annoyed. Personally I'd cancel the order and get it elsewhere, even if I had to wait the same time or possibly longer, just on principle. This kind of "trick" is common practice with many retailers precisely because they know many people will still wait. I'd cancel the order and tell them in no uncertain terms why.
 
No offence taken at all. I thought about cancelling and normally I'm not averse to cutting my nose off to spite my face but I'm really looking forward to getting this camera so I'll just put this one down to experience. Fingers crossed they deliver on time.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Exactly. The rules are supposed to mirror what you'd be able to do in a shop. Most shops will have dedicated demo equipment but, if not, they may allow you to open a newly boxed one to inspect if they feel you're a genuine buyer, but they're not going to let you push off for a few days with it to see how you get on with it then expect to return it for a full refund afterward.

This provision of the DSR was grossly unfair to online retailers and many chose to ignore it and refuse to offer full refunds for obviously used equipment. A change was due. As Sharky says, they're not a rental service - if you buy something, use it but then decide you don't like it then tough, you're not entitled to a full refund.
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Not quite correct. What the new regulations actually say is:

(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

(10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—

(a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);

(b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(12) For the purposes of paragraph (9) handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop.
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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

Testing the "nature, characteristics AND functioning is allowed. So taking the camera out, checking its characteristics and how it works (so using it as you might a demo unit in a shop) is permitted.

.Gov guidance .pdf:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf

The law is now called the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 (the DSR are repealed).
 
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So they send a new sealed item out, get an opened tried out one back that they can't sell at full price but that's fine

What about eBay business sellers that sell used items, fancy a 300mm lens for a month, why rent it, buy it on a credit card, use it for up to a month then send it back for a full refund including the postage they charged you to send it out.
 
scottduffy said:
I bought a Fuji XE1 from Mathers on Sunday night as they were the only one of the cheapest 5 on Camerpricebuster which actually had the camera in stock. It stated delivery in between 2-3 days. Next morning i got a call saying they didn't have stock and it will be roughly a fortnight. .
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Can understand your frustration, but a positive is (would be for me anyway) they phoned you the very next day and advised you of the delay in getting the camera to you - they may well have sold out of the stock they held on the sunday if they were that low a price - not much help I know for getting you, your camera, but they could very well have kept putting you off and delaying the delivery / coming up with a supplier issue excuse etc etc.

Hope you get it soon and enjoy it :)
 
Dave1 said:
Testing the "nature, characteristics AND functioning is allowed. So taking the camera out, checking its characteristics and how it works (so using it as you might a demo unit in a shop) is permitted.
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That's what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. What's patently not acceptable is actually "using" the item, i.e. an extended period of usage and testing just to decide if you like it or not, then expecting to return it for a full refund. As you say, you can have a quick look over it and check functionality and handling in a shop but you can't walk off with it for several days - the same should apply when buying online.
 
They're not listing as in stock at all. Items in stock say 'in stock'. If they have to order in kit they can only estimate how long that'll take. They phoned you promptly to let you know there was a delay- seems like good service to me. I get your disappointment, but as you say nobody else has any in stock so it's probably not their fault.
 
To be honest Panamoz can be just as bad. I was after a Sigma 35 and, whilst their notional price was good, they never had any stock. I signed up for alerts to be told when it was in but, when they did have some back in April, they never mailed me. It was then out of stock again until recently but again no email at all, despite signing up again and emailing them and being told they'd take care of it.

Good prices are irrelevant if you never have the damn thing!
 
Vertigo1 said:
To be honest Panamoz can be just as bad. I was after a Sigma 35 and, whilst their notional price was good, they never had any stock. I signed up for alerts to be told when it was in but, when they did have some back in April, they never mailed me. It was then out of stock again until recently but again no email at all, despite signing up again and emailing them and being told they'd take care of it.
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Rather than wait for them to email you, email them and ask. They can sometimes supply even though the website says otherwise. Happened to me once.

Vertigo1 said:
Good prices are irrelevant if you never have the damn thing!
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Agreed, but they've always been able to supply me on the 'five day' service.
 
digital said:
Rather than wait for them to email you, email them and ask. They can sometimes supply even though the website says otherwise. Happened to me once.
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I did and Tina told me they didn't know when they'd have any back in stock but that she'd make sure I was notified when they did. No notification when they finally arrived.
 
Coyon, they are saying delivery within 2-3 days then you place your order and get a call stating it'll be in the region of 10 days. You might call that good customer service but I call it p*** poor. Can you imagine buying something from the classified section and the person doesn't have it but will get it to you within 10 days? You're likely to be very annoyed.
 
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It is poor and wouldn't be the first time given similar circumstances I have cancelled and bought elsewhere.
Might cost a few bob more, but these chancers will only change if their questionable sales tactics prove fruitless
 
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Just realised mathers have not taken my money yet. Does anyone know if i can simply cancel this order? Never had to do this before.
 
Of course you can. You're entitled to return it for a full refund for a while after receipt so, even if they've already taken payment and begun despatch procedures, it's in their interests to cancel it and not send it out really rather than have to deal with you sending it back afterward :)
 
That happens in store too. We asked how long a bed would take to be delivered. She said 1 week. So we ordered, Paid..then she said computer now says 3 weeks. So we got a refund and left
 
Thanks mate. They've not been in touch to say they've got it or are dispatching it so i'll just call/email them tomorrow and cancel.
 
This is where some of the indies fall over in my opinion. If I'm ordering something it's normally at night (after work) and normally needs to arrive on a fairly specific day (so I can arrange something when it arrives), so I need to rely on what their website is telling me.

Therefore, I only tend to use online stores that have a reliable online stock status. A lot of the small indies are, in my opinion, intentionally vague about what their stock levels are. If a tiny store has pretty much everything listed then alarm bells start to ring, as it's incredibly unlikely that they really have everything ready for immediate dispatch. Anything along the lines of '2-3 days' is an immediate no from me, as it means they don't have the item and will be sourcing it once you've ordered.

In practice When price is also factored in that often means using Amazon or WEX, but even the Hong Kong retailers can more often than not get something to you quicker than a shop 100 miles away (my last DigitalRev order was 3 days including a bank holiday).
 
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I'm giving a thumbs up to Panamoz. I ordered a lens on Monday afternoon. I emailed Tina prior to purchase asking if there was any chance it would be delivered before this weekend. She confirmed that whilst there was a good chance it could be, this was not guaranteed. I went ahead and ordered anyway. Excellent communication from Tina, tracking info given. Lens arrived this morning at 9am. I've never bought grey imports before but decided to take a chance. D610 bought from Hdew and lens from Panamoz. Both arrived quickly and without problem.
 
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