Motorist faces jail for assaulting cyclist

j crossley said:
Likewise, why can't you use another route?
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Because the gym I go to is on that particular road. Short of driving about 6 miles out of my way, parking on the M25 hard shoulder and sliding down the embankment, there's no other way of getting there.
 
nilagin said:
Exactly, if you are out for a pleasurable bike ride, why would you cycle down a fast busy road when there are much quieter roads about to enjoy.
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Because we enjoy freedom of choice and not restrictions.
 
j crossley said:
So what you are saying is, that it is alright for this group of cyclists to disrupt the daily commute of some other poor bugger on a different road, because your commute will then be trouble free.
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They wouldn't disrupt anyone on a different road it has a 5ft wide cycle path on both sides of the road.
 
dod said:
But it maybe doesn't go to where they want to be?
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It goes exactly the same place. People cycling to the gym use the footpath, it is a country road and rarely has any pedestrians. So although technically they shouldn't be, they are far safer.
The lone cyclists I see on that road are usually travelling fast and don't pose a problem, the groups of cyclists much slower and to put it bluntly, well past their sell by date.
 
nilagin said:
It goes exactly the same place. People cycling to the gym use the footpath, it is a country road and rarely has any pedestrians. So although technically they shouldn't be, they are far safer.
The lone cyclists I see on that road are usually travelling fast and don't pose a problem, the groups of cyclists much slower and to put it bluntly, well past their sell by date.
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It was a rhetorical question but maybe they're not all going to the gym? It's probably unlikely but even though they may be going somewhere else (i.e. not the gym) you'd prefer them to take another road that doesn't interfere with your progress? That about right?
 
dod said:
and have a close look at #5.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...n-myths-about-bike-lanes-and-why-theyre-wrong

Now I wait for someone to use the proportionality argument :rolleyes:
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The main reason for not using cycle lanes is that often they tend to suck as a route compared to cycling on the road. Biggest problems are that they treat cyclists like pedestrians (uneven surface, requirement to stop at road junctions, unsuitable for faster moving riders, broken glass & surface damage).
 
ancient_mariner said:
The main reason for not using cycle lanes is that often they tend to suck as a route compared to cycling on the road. Biggest problems are that they treat cyclists like pedestrians (uneven surface, requirement to stop at road junctions, unsuitable for faster moving riders, broken glass & surface damage).
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and have cars in them :mad:
 
ancient_mariner said:
requirement to stop at road junctions, unsuitable for faster moving riders.
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I am not a fan of unprotected cycle lanes if only because they are often sited with no consideration of the dangers they represent to both their users and others. On the other hand: roads are for the benefit of all and need to be used with consideration by and for every other user.
 
dod said:
It was a rhetorical question but maybe they're not all going to the gym? It's probably unlikely but even though they may be going somewhere else (i.e. not the gym) you'd prefer them to take another road that doesn't interfere with your progress? That about right?
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They aren't going to the gym, the gym goers use the payment as I said. These others are just passing the gym an route into the town. But as I keep saying there is a much better and safer route for them on an alternative road with cycle lanes. I drive down both roads 5 days a week. I see cyclists on the cycle paths around once or twice a month, where as I see cyclists on the other road more like once or twice a week.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Passing cyclists who are 2 abreast takes the same amount of time as passing a single cyclist, and as the diagram illustrates, is of no inconvenience to the driver as if it's safe to overtake a single cyclist by straddling the white line, then it's safe to pull entirely into the second lane and pass a group.
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Not on a country lane with no markings. We are advised to leave at least a 2m gap from the cyclist when you overtake, so when they are two, sometimes 3 abreast, there isn't 2m of road left to use.


KitsuneAndy said:
And I've never worn any lycra in my life.
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Are you sure? I thought Lycra was in thing at the Corbyn love in's.... ;)
 
nilagin said:
They aren't going to the gym, the gym goers use the payment as I said. These others are just passing the gym an route into the town. But as I keep saying there is a much better and safer route for them on an alternative road with cycle lanes. I drive down both roads 5 days a week. I see cyclists on the cycle paths around once or twice a month, where as I see cyclists on the other road more like once or twice a week.
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Once or twice a week isn't really that much in the overall scheme of things then is it? A wee bit more tolerance wouldn't go amiss by the looks of it.
 
Jelster said:
Not on a country lane with no markings. We are advised to leave at least a 2m gap from the cyclist when you overtake, so when they are two, sometimes 3 abreast, there isn't 2m of road left to use.
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That's a difficult one. When we're on narrow roads we go single file and even then 2m is pretty much impossible. We just have to put the hammer down as far as possible and get to the next passing place as quick as we can if the driver isn't confident enough to pass.
 
dod said:
Once or twice a week isn't really that much in the overall scheme of things then is it? A wee bit more tolerance wouldn't go amiss by the looks of it.
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Tolerance is the last thing you will get from some motorists.
It's amazing how the common bicycle graced roads way before motor vehicles yet some how some motorists see it as a god given right for them to have priority.

Fact is a cyclist can and will use whatever route they want just like an avid motorist may barn storm a B road rather than take a more direct and faster A road route......... interesting how no one challanges that scenario though!
 
Jelster said:
Not on a country lane with no markings. We are advised to leave at least a 2m gap from the cyclist when you overtake, so when they are two, sometimes 3 abreast, there isn't 2m of road left to use.




Are you sure? I thought Lycra was in thing at the Corbyn love in's.... ;)
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Ah well, guess you'll just have to wait until the road widens then :)

Wouldn't know, never been a fan of Corbyn.
 
nilagin said:
Could that be that less cyclists get caught. Doesn't mean less cyclists are guilty of committing offences.
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Sorry, missed that. That's not a very reasoned argument. Those are the official crime figures as reported for Scotland 2016/7. I haven't bothered to look for UK but if we go by population they're probably about 10 times higher.

We know that not every motorist speeding gets caught so those figures will increase on both sides of the argument. Lets multiply both by a factor of your choosing and see what the numbers look like :)
 
dod said:
But it maybe doesn't go to where they want to be?

This really is a non topic. It's legal for bikes and cars to use most roads. More car drivers break the law than cyclists and are contributing hugely to the cost burden for the police and the country.

For example

https://www.gov.scot/publications/recorded-crime-scotland-2016-17/pages/12/
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I routinely see cyclists go through red lights, ride on the pavement etc and generally behave very badly with very little chance of getting prosecuted, maybe no chance at all even when they're the cause of an accident whereas when driving a car you at least stand the chance of being prosecuted at some point even if there are no actual live police about... so if more car drivers break the law than cyclists this must surely be because there are vastly more car drivers that can be identified and prosecuted? As a percentage of wrong doers within the type (car or cyclist) I think it's possibly cyclists who offend more, percentage wise?

Personally I think that adults should cycle only on the road not on the pavement and should obey the speed limits and traffic lights etc and I'd also like to see anyone cycling in built up areas having to have insurance and some means of id-ing them such as a number plate. Enforcement may be costly and difficult but worth doing to end the IMO moronic behaviour of far too many of them far too often.

Sorry to offend any cyclists but you'd only have fellow cyclists to blame if my wishes came true and as someone who is often pushing a wheelchair I'd frankly like to see a few cyclists shot on site for the moronic, selfish and dangerous way they behave on the roads and pavements.
 
woof woof said:
rankly like to see a few cyclists shot on site for the moronic, selfish and dangerous way they behave on the roads and pavements.
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Can we have the same treatment for motorists as well then because whilst it's all to easy for you to vilafy cyclists there are moronic drivers out there where penalty points and or a custodial sentence are some what on the weak side.

So I suggest drivers should be shot for running red lights, speeding oh and my personal favourite.......sitting in the orange box at traffic lights which are dedicated for cyclists! :eek:
 
woof woof said:
I'd frankly like to see a few cyclists shot on site for the moronic, selfish and dangerous way they behave on the roads and pavements.
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As a cyclist I hope it won't come to that but I don't think you're wrong about the behaviour of too large a proportion of cyclists.
 
woof woof said:
Sorry to offend any cyclists but you'd only have fellow cyclists to blame if my wishes came true and as someone who is often pushing a wheelchair I'd frankly like to see a few cyclists shot on site for the moronic, selfish and dangerous way they behave on the roads and pavements.
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I pushed my daughter in a wheelchair for almost 6 years, and had close calls with motorists running red lights numerous times when we had the green man at crossings. They were inches away from hitting us at times - so let's shoot all motorists too!

I wasn't exaggerating about the ridiculous us and them attitude on here, sadly. You're still referring to cyclists as if they are some different species. Someone more sensibly pointed out earlier, there's A-holes across the board, doesn't matter what their mode of transport is.

I can tell you for most definite, I have witnessed far more accidents and near misses caused by drivers than cyclists over the years, I can't remember the last time I've seen a cyclist cause any bother tbh. Maybe we should go by area, shoot the cyclists in yours, and the motorists in mine for fairness - an I'm sure some might say 'what about those pushing wheelchairs, proper nuisance at crossings'
 
Cagey75 said:
I can't remember the last time I've seen a cyclist cause any bother tbh.
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I'm sure you're right but there are frequent incidents between pedestrians and cyclists here in East Devon. Most are minor but annoying: passing too fast and too close on shared pavements; aggression particularly towards older pedestrians, failure to respond to traffic lights when pedestrians are crossing the road.

Cyclists get upset when drivers behave thoughtlessly or aggresively but then behave in the same way towards pedestrians. It's a bit like that parable about the mote and the beam: we all need to think about what we do wrong before we get too worked up about what others are up to.
 
Cagey75 said:
I pushed my daughter in a wheelchair for almost 6 years, and had close calls with motorists running red lights numerous times when we had the green man at crossings. They were inches away from hitting us at times - so let's shoot all motorists too!

I wasn't exaggerating about the ridiculous us and them attitude on here, sadly. You're still referring to cyclists as if they are some different species. Someone more sensibly pointed out earlier, there's A-holes across the board, doesn't matter what their mode of transport is.

I can tell you for most definite, I have witnessed far more accidents and near misses caused by drivers than cyclists over the years, I can't remember the last time I've seen a cyclist cause any bother tbh. Maybe we should go by area, shoot the cyclists in yours, and the motorists in mine for fairness - an I'm sure some might say 'what about those pushing wheelchairs, proper nuisance at crossings'
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Yep, I regularly see cars jumping red lights, accelerating through ambers. Everyone just seems to accept that speeding is fine too. I was hit by a car when I was *in* a cycle lane.

Idiots on both sides, but one side does considerably more damage when that idiocy leads to an accident.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm sure you're right but there are frequent incidents between pedestrians and cyclists here in East Devon. Most are minor but annoying: passing too fast and too close on shared pavements; aggression particularly towards older pedestrians, failure to respond to traffic lights when pedestrians are crossing the road.

Cyclists get upset when drivers behave thoughtlessly or aggresively but then behave in the same way towards pedestrians. It's a bit like that parable about the mote and the beam: we all need to think about what we do wrong before we get too worked up about what others are up to.
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That's still generalising, if a motorist cuts me off I'm taking it out on them not some random pedestrian.

But, as I said earlier, not had one incident in all my years of cycling, only damage I've ever done was to myself
 
woof woof said:
I'd frankly like to see a few cyclists shot on site for the moronic, selfish and dangerous way they behave on the roads and pavements.
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Seems like another blinkered view of cyclists to jump on the hate cyclists bandwagon whilst completely overlooking the poor behaviour of motorists.

Can’t understand where this vilification for one set comes from when as there are probably the same proportion in each group that operate badly. I suspect it’s some sort of jealousy
 
dod said:
That's a difficult one. When we're on narrow roads we go single file and even then 2m is pretty much impossible. We just have to put the hammer down as far as possible and get to the next passing place as quick as we can if the driver isn't confident enough to pass.
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Which is what I did when I cycled to work or pick routes with less traffic. I would get lots of thanks from passing motorists for causing as little disruption as possible to their journey.
The road in question that cyclists pose a problem for me varies from 40-60mph and as I say, not an ideal road for cyclists especially riding side by side chatting away, oblivious to the traffic around them especially on the two steep hills in the 60mph limit section.
 
jamesev said:
Seems like another blinkered view of cyclists to jump on the hate cyclists bandwagon whilst completely overlooking the poor behaviour of motorists.
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I don't read it like that at all.

Ever know someone who killed another road user because of the stupid behaviour of that road user? It can take months - even years - for them to stop feeling guilt, to stop asking what they could have done differently, to get their confidence back again.

What happens when Rodney Reason decides he can't wait at the junction and cycles across a red light, only to end up beneath someone's car? He's dead & beyond caring, but the person in the car will have to live with the sight of him disappearing under their bonnet for the rest of their days.

I'm pretty sure Alan isn't talking about all cyclists, but only those that risk life & limb for themselves & others.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I don't read it like that at all.

Ever know someone who killed another road user because of the stupid behaviour of that road user? It can take months - even years - for them to stop feeling guilt, to stop asking what they could have done differently, to get their confidence back again.

What happens when Rodney Reason decides he can't wait at the junction and cycles across a red light, only to end up beneath someone's car? He's dead & beyond caring, but the person in the car will have to live with the sight of him disappearing under their bonnet for the rest of their days.

I'm pretty sure Alan isn't talking about all cyclists, but only those that risk life & limb for themselves & others.
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Much more likely Mandy Motorhead breaks the red and hits a pedestrian I'd say
 
ancient_mariner said:
Mandy Motorhead?

;)

That's not a logical response to Alan's post. Yes, motorists jump lights and drive over peds, but there's no connection to Alan's point.
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Sweet image

I've already responded to Alan's post, that was a response to yours. Already stated, I've had near misses with motorists breaking lights when I was pushing a wheelchair [or buggy] - I've never been near hit by a cyclist. I've never hit anyone or held anyone up or forced pedestrians to get out of my way on footpaths while cycling either. The only time I have come close to colliding with a pedestrian was when they suddenly decide to wander into the clearly marked out cycle lane I use daily. And that's been rare enough tbh.

The way I see it is it's silly to tar all with the one brush. A cyclist can be a 12yr old on a BMX or a 70yr old on a road bike. Both will behave very differently but I bet you any money you will rarely if ever catch either eating a sandwich while also talking on their phone while cycling .... I've seen motorists do this, does this mean all of them do?
 
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Cagey75 said:
The way I see it is it's silly to tar all with the one brush.
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Of course it's silly to do that.

My wife has twice been hit by cyclists while walking on the pavement: once in Cambridge (girl couldn't find her brakes) and once by a deeply unpleasant bloke in Copenhagen who was riding in a area where cycling was specifically banned. I'm providing a personal example to show that it happens.

Cagey75 said:
I've seen motorists do this, does this mean all of them do
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And indeed there are many reasonable and safe cyclists, just as there are many reasonable and safe motorists. It doesn't mean that a few of the ones not like this might not be metaphorically shot though. ;)
 
ancient_mariner said:
And indeed there are many reasonable and safe cyclists, just as there are many reasonable and safe motorists.
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The vast majority in both cases.

The problem is in getting the tiny minority of both types to realise that their attitude is just plain wrong when they persist in thinking it's everyone else that's out of step.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Of course it's silly to do that.

My wife has twice been hit by cyclists while walking on the pavement: once in Cambridge (girl couldn't find her brakes) and once by a deeply unpleasant bloke in Copenhagen who was riding in a area where cycling was specifically banned. I'm providing a personal example to show that it happens.



And indeed there are many reasonable and safe cyclists, just as there are many reasonable and safe motorists. It doesn't mean that a few of the ones not like this might not be metaphorically shot though. ;)
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Every day we head out we're at risk from something or other. it's people that scare me, not their mode of transport. I know that all those near misses I experienced when crossing the road at the green man were caused by idiots, not cars. The same fools would have done the same on motor bikes or bicycles. Though I know for sure which one of those 3 I'd rather collide with! I'd rather not have to worry about being hit by any if possible.
 
We've had a similar discussion before , I don't have a problem with cyclists in general but I
do get annoyed at the idiots clothed in black lycra from head to toe with no light reflective stuff
so you can't easily see them on shady dim roads/lanes.
Often they are hammering along cutting corners, I had one coming round a blind bend on my side of the road
who had a right go at me till I pointed out the dashcam that I would have used as evidence if I had ended up in the
ditch avoiding him or god forbid we had collided
 
Cagey75 said:
I bet you any money you will rarely if ever catch either eating a sandwich while also talking on their phone while cycling
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Not got Deliverpoo or similar around you? Often see their riders riding no hands while texting or setting up their phone sat nav. At least a car/van driver has brakes when driving no handed! (NOT condoning driving no handed in any way.)
 
I've seen several cyclists riding non-handed while texting. Another was eating a bag of chips.
Worst was the teen on a BMX who came down a hill and went through a red light at a crossroads with his hands in his pockets. A car with right-of-way clipped his back wheel and he hit the road face first. Not pretty.
Funniest was another teen on a BMX (which had no brakes) racing down a pedestrian only walkway, having to throw himself to the floor to avoid hitting the two coppers who walked round the corner. Bruises and a right bollocking; not a good day for him. :D

While waiting at a red light, I was once asked by a group of pedestrians if I knew cyclists didn't have to stop at red lights; they expanded to say that car rules don't apply to us.
It didn't appear to be a p*** take, they actually seemed to believe that to be true...
 
Nod said:
Not got Deliverpoo or similar around you? Often see their riders riding no hands while texting or setting up their phone sat nav. At least a car/van driver has brakes when driving no handed! (NOT condoning driving no handed in any way.)
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Tori_T said:
I've seen several cyclists riding non-handed while texting. Another was eating a bag of chips.
Worst was the teen on a BMX who came down a hill and went through a red light at a crossroads with his hands in his pockets. A car with right-of-way clipped his back wheel and he hit the road face first. Not pretty.
Funniest was another teen on a BMX (which had no brakes) racing down a pedestrian only walkway, having to throw himself to the floor to avoid hitting the two coppers who walked round the corner. Bruises and a right bollocking; not a good day for him. :D

While waiting at a red light, I was once asked by a group of pedestrians if I knew cyclists didn't have to stop at red lights; they expanded to say that car rules don't apply to us.
It didn't appear to be a p*** take, they actually seemed to believe that to be true...
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Honestly, and no reason to lie, never seen anything like this from cyclists in any of the three towns I've lived in. None were cities however, so no bike couriers. I've seen teens muck about on bikes along pathways, just like we all did as kids, and pull stunts and ride without hands - but that's always been within housing estates, never on main roads or in town. On the other hand I could lose count in any given week the amount of drivers I see stuff their face, make phone calls, look like they're about to nod off, have a good root about in their nostrils etc
 
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