moving away from auto

SsSsSsSsSnake

SsSsSsSsSnake

Messages
9,629
Edit My Images
Yes
ok just a couple of weeks into DLSR and I'm ready to go full manual but its so confusing with all those stops,iso's shutters etc that I'm fumbling in the dark(more shutter time ?:))I've started to read the tutor stuff on here and its brill,just need to take it slowly and try to absorb the info.any tips for learning etc would be welcome as well.
thanks:puke::bonk:
 
Dont read this the wrong way, but you arent ready to go fully manual if you are confused by stops,iso's and shutters.

There is no need to run before you can walk.
Use the auto modes, see what they are doing and understand why.

Try using the semi manual modes like Av and Tv to create different effects. Learn what effect each thing has.

Sticking the camera into manual mode and blindly following the meter is no better than using the green square mode.
 
My personal view is if you're not at least proficient with aperture and shutter priority shooting with an understanding of what the camera does and why then you're not ready to go manual ... yet.

Learning to walk first will help with the running later :)

Beaten by Tom and in full agreement with his comments :)
 
As above really i tried manual saw the error of my ways and went to semi auto Av and Tv on your camera. Never left there since to be honest
 
If you want to have a go at full manual, put your camera in P mode & auto focus sight your camera till you get the focus then use the settings as your input for manual settings (turn off the AF ), it won't always give you perfect results, but it willgive you an idea
 
bruno106a said:
If you want to have a go at full manual, put your camera in P mode & auto focus sight your camera till you get the focus then use the settings as your input for manual settings (turn off the AF ), it won't always give you perfect results, but it willgive you an idea
Click to expand...

But what's the point in that?
You've just inputted what the camera told you was the correct exposure, that's not manual, that's following the auto setting and dialling it in manually.
Manual is where YOU choose the settings, regardless of what the camera's metering system is telling you it thinks is right.
Complete waste of time doing all that faff.
 
Just out of interest can the more proficient of you out there look at the light available and dial in shutter/iso/stop and get the exposure spot on first time?

I've mainly used priority modes but am just moving into manual mode to work with flash but even so I find I have to fire off a few shots before I get it right.
 
Firing off test shots is normal, I wouldn't worry about trying to evaluate the scene perfectly yourself. With experience you will need less test shots to get where you want but you still need that feedback loop.
 
In addition to my last post,I was going to say to google the exposure triangle to give you a better idea,my post was to give him a starting point, instead of him trying all kinds of settting & getting frustrated with it. I got the Idea from photo plus mag.
The reason I didn't put this in earlier was my batteries went in my keyboard, then i was called away
 
thankyou all for your replies,I shall use TV 1st and learn about that and also read up on the triangle.will get back to you when I've done a bit of exploring.
 
lol back sooner than i thought :)on my camera set to Tv, there are a lot of fractions of a second as i turn the wheel but as you go to longer settings it goes from 1/4 to 0"3 4 5 6 8 then 1" then 1"3 6 2" up to 30,is the 1" = to 1 sec?

thanks
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
lol back sooner than i thought :)on my camera set to Tv, there are a lot of fractions of a second as i turn the wheel but as you go to longer settings it goes from 1/4 to 0"3 4 5 6 8 then 1" then 1"3 6 2" up to 30,is the 1" = to 1 sec?

thanks
Click to expand...

Yes. It will go up to 30" then to bulb, which is when the shutter stays open for as long as you press the button.
 
Chris

As mentioned, all that means is that your shutter will stay open longer to let more light in. Say you set it to 10 seconds, which is a lot by the way, your shutter will stay open for 10 seconds. If you go the other way 1/500 and so on, your shutter will not stay open for very long and therefore let in less light, to compensate this you may need to increase your ISO, which again lets in light. Another way to let more light into the camera is by having a wide aperture Av on your camera, a wide aperture is anything from 1.2 to possibly 4.0, this however depends on the lens you are using.

I'm only a beginner just like you, play around with TV and AV settings and see what each setting does. I'm trying to get use to the manual setting as well, i am finding it hard to find the right exposure, will keep trying.

Cheers and good luck.
 
Anytime,

Let us know how it is going, also check you tube, great learning tool.
 
Did you understand that those shutter speeds double for full stops of light, so from 1/1000 you get 1/500 1/250 1/125 1/60 1/30 1/15 1/8 1/4 1/2 1 etc.

Although I don't know how you have your camera set up - you can often change the steps. I'm old fashioned and have half stops.
 
It looks like your cameras shutter and aperture move up in thirds of stops which does nothing to help learn the basics of the exposure triangle.
If you can concentrate on full stops to begin with it can be easier to learn.

Shutter: Doubled or halved equates to twice or half as much light reaches the sensor....eg:

1/50 = x amount of light

1/100 = half as much light as 1/50

1/200 = half as much light as 1/100

1/400 = half as much light as 1/200


or another eg:


1/2000 = x amount of light

1/1000 = twice as much light as 1/2000

1/500 = twice as much light as 1/1000

1/250 = twice as much light as 1/500

and so on.......

Aperture: Each of these are one full stop apart and again double or halve the amount of light of the previous one.


F/2

F/2.8

F/4

F/5.6

F/8

F/11

F/16


An easier way to remember F numbers is each TWO stops doubles the F number eg:

F/2 is two stops different to F/4

F/4 is two stops different to F/8

F/5.6 is two stops different to F/11

etc etc

Unfortuanatly dslrs have thirds of stops ( F/6.3, F/7.1 etc ) which can make things look complicated.

ISO also changes by one stop each time the amount is double or halved and therefore like the aperture and shutter speed, will increase/ decrease the luminosity of the image depending wether you increase or decrease the amount ie: 100, 200, 400, 800 etc


I have tried to explain in fairly simple terms but confess it isn't the easiest of topics to take on board for some people.

There are lots of websites and books that can explain better than I and of course there are many members on here who will help you...
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
ok just a couple of weeks into DLSR and I'm ready to go full manual but its so confusing with all those stops,iso's shutters etc that I'm fumbling in the dark(more shutter time ?:))I've started to read the tutor stuff on here and its brill,just need to take it slowly and try to absorb the info.any tips for learning etc would be welcome as well.
thanks:puke::bonk:
Click to expand...

there is very little point in using manual unless you're also using a separate light meter. If you're going to use the camera's built in meter, just use Av, Tv or P
 
mortimerhill said:
there is very little point in using manual unless you're also using a separate light meter. If you're going to use the camera's built in meter, just use Av, Tv or P
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that, as it depends on the type of metering you use for a start. Spot metering can have wildly different settings to evaluate and also gives a vastly different photo. Manual has its uses and its good to learn each facet of it to become a better photographer in the long term.
 
interesting thread i have stumbled across here! very helpful, to say the least. I have tried using my bridge on full manual for some night time photogrphs, and i had some mixed results, made myself a 'cheat sheet' to stick in my back pocket! with rough settings for a specific type of photo - it gives a starting point to work from, i can then adjust from test shots. i will add though, that there isnt half as much thats actually changeable in my bridge as on a dslr!

i have been using photo mags and websites, including this one, to teach myself, and i would have to say that the way things have been explained in this thread is much better than i have read in other places! haha!

so thanks...and sorry for hi-jacking!

g
 
dont know if im breaking the rules by doing this but this is a pretty helpful site for getting your head around the basics, i thought so, anyway
 
Never understand the obsession with 'going manual'

Agree with mortimerhill in that if you are only going to use the cameras light meter then manual is just taking more time to do what the camera would do anyway. Using A or S is 'manual' as you are choosing a variable but letting camera decide others rather than having to make the changes that the camera would do anyway.

Are you finding you need to set the exposure for any reason (taking numerous shots with exact exposure settings) or just feel you need to use manual mode?
 
mortimerhill said:
there is very little point in using manual unless you're also using a separate light meter. If you're going to use the camera's built in meter, just use Av, Tv or P
Click to expand...

Rubbish. The in-camera meter is an excellent guide to how close you are to a correctly exposed image before you shoot. I never use hand meter, and shoot manual for around 90% of all my work. Leaning how the various meter readings give different settings will help you to learn how to judge a shot before you take it. Manual gives you the most control over how the shot will come out. Once you can shoot well in manual, you will be able to get the best from, and know when best to use, the various auto and semi-auto modes.

The most important thing to know is that there is no definitively correct way to take any given photograph. There are always alternatives, and the more you practice, the better your chances of finding your way of getting it right.
 
jon ryan said:
Rubbish. The in-camera meter is an excellent guide to how close you are to a correctly exposed image before you shoot. I never use hand meter, and shoot manual for around 90% of all my work. Leaning how the various meter readings give different settings will help you to learn how to judge a shot before you take it. Manual gives you the most control over how the shot will come out. Once you can shoot well in manual, you will be able to get the best from, and know when best to use, the various auto and semi-auto modes.

The most important thing to know is that there is no definitively correct way to take any given photograph. There are always alternatives, and the more you practice, the better your chances of finding your way of getting it right.
Click to expand...

:plus1:

I am presently teaching someone the exposure triangle.....using fully manual mode and spot metering with a D90

Upto meeting me he has always shot in either fully auto or Tv / Av priority and often not been happy with his shots.

Not unlike myself he is not a fan of pp so wishes to keep that side to a minimum so therefore is looking to capture the result he wants in camera.

eg: Yesterday he shot a flower in Av priority whilst with me and although the cameras metering system supposedly exposed correctly and the shot was perfectly acceptable, he had a personal taste for the flower to be darker..

In an attempt to get the result he wanted, he stopped the aperture down an additional stop....I knew what result he would get but for his learning I let him take the shot.
His reaction was the same that the flower was too exposed for his tastes but he didn't understand why as he had stopped down further.

Once explained that by stopping down the additional stop, the camera compensated by decreasing the shutter by one stop and therefore threw out a similar exposure result.

We put the camera to manual and hey presto, he was able to obtain the result he wanted.

Not only does learning fully manual mode help you to understand the effects of aperture, shutter etc etc but also it enables you to be creative and get the exact result that you want.

This is not to say that the semi auto modes don't have a place........
 
Asha said:
:plus1:

I am presently teaching someone the exposure triangle.....using fully manual mode and spot metering with a D90

Upto meeting me he has always shot in either fully auto or Tv / Av priority and often not been happy with his shots.

Not unlike myself he is not a fan of pp so wishes to keep that side to a minimum so therefore is looking to capture the result he wants in camera.

eg: Yesterday he shot a flower in Av priority whilst with me and although the cameras metering system supposedly exposed correctly and the shot was perfectly acceptable, he had a personal taste for the flower to be darker..

In an attempt to get the result he wanted, he stopped the aperture down an additional stop....I knew what result he would get but for his learning I let him take the shot.
His reaction was the same that the flower was too exposed for his tastes but he didn't understand why as he had stopped down further.

Once explained that by stopping down the additional stop, the camera compensated by decreasing the shutter by one stop and therefore threw out a similar exposure result.

We put the camera to manual and hey presto, he was able to obtain the result he wanted.

Not only does learning fully manual mode help you to understand the effects of aperture, shutter etc etc but also it enables you to be creative and get the exact result that you want.

This is not to say that the semi auto modes don't have a place........
Click to expand...

Quite. I do a lot of teaching, and Lesson One is getting students using the meter and manual adjustments. I'm constantly amazed at how many, often with top-end kit, know nothing about this.
 
Could they not just have used exposure compensation and gone for -n as that is exactly what it is for and is in fact all that you did anyway (just in a slower way)?
 
Sure, why not? Lots of ways to get it right. My classes start with manual. Others do it differently. What works, works. :shrug:
 
Yes realise both work but suggesting the need to go to manual to get the required result is not really correct as could have left in semi auto mode and just simply clicked around exposure comp.

I realise I am coming as this from a what method is quickest and probably wouldn't make the best teacher!
 
Last edited:
ernesto said:
Could they not just have used exposure compensation and gone for -n as that is exactly what it is for and is in fact all that you did anyway (just in a slower way)?
Click to expand...

Yes your quite right he could have used exposure compensation but we are looking at newbies here who have little idea as to how the hole ( aperture) and how long that hole is open for ( shutter speed) relates to the effect of a photo.

As I mentioned earlier about trying to initially work with full stops as against halves or thirds can help ease the learning process ....tbh by incorprating exposure compensation technique into early lessons when the pupil is still struggling to understand the Aperture/Shutter /ISO triangle is simply going to confuse even more....i recall when I learnt, my head was just a scramble of numbers ( and i'm good at maths!!)

When i first met this guy, the first thing I showed him was an old manually operated slr camera (zenit) opened up so he could see just how light enters and what effect changing aperture and shutter speed has within the camera.......because a digi camera back cannot be opened lin the same way, it can be more difficult to understand the basic concepts.

He, like other people i have taught, immediatley had a more clear understanding of what was happening when they pressed the shutter in their dlsr.

I personally believe that to teach a newby the essence of all photography it is necessary to avoid 90% of a dslrs menu of "shortcuts" , "gadgets" and "fine tuning" by going back to the bottom line basics .....
 
Asha said:
...the first thing I showed him was an old manually operated slr camera (zenit) opened up so he could see just how light enters and what effect changing aperture and shutter speed has within the camera.......because a digi camera back cannot be opened lin the same way, it can be more difficult to understand the basic concepts...
Click to expand...

THAT is an excellent idea, which shall henceforth be know in my classes as "The Asha Concept". And I even have an old Zenit E sitting on a shelf. :clap:
 
jon ryan said:
THAT is an excellent idea, which shall henceforth be know in my classes as "The Asha Concept". And I even have an old Zenit E sitting on a shelf. :clap:
Click to expand...

Oh my I've got myself fame after all these years without having to apply for Britains Greatest Talent !! :D :D

I did consider using a box brownie instead but a zenit resembles a bit closure to a dslr!! :D

Of course they all have the same basic concept!
 
Asha said:
Oh my I've got myself fame after all these years without having to apply for Britains Greatest Talent !! :D :D

I did consider using a box brownie instead but a zenit resembles a bit closure to a dslr!! :D

Of course they all have the same basic concept!
Click to expand...

Just been looking through your 'Film 52' stuff - which is great - and I see you live in my favourite city, you lucky stiff. Me and the wife have spent the last three new years there - I'll buy you a drink if we make it for the next one!
 
Would love to meet up Jon.....drop me a line if and when you are coming down here!

New year is a beautiful time....the weather is usually settled, sun shining and the air is crisp and clear...often spot on for photography!

I could do to get off here and go do some catching up of my 52 challenge!!!!!!

OP.....I hope can benefit from some of the postings that have been put on here.......you know where we are if you need more help!
 
It's great for photos. I did this travel piece a couple of years back. You may appreciate the fact that the shots were done on a €88 Fuji P&S from Darty as my 5D was wrecked by a wave on day one!

I'll certainly give you a shout next time we're planning to be there.
 
Your write up Jon, sums up Nice perfectly ...superb!! Darned good shots to say taken witb p&s!

Appologies to the OP....we have veered off topic slightly

Now to get back on track.................
 
Asha said:
It looks like your cameras shutter and aperture move up in thirds of stops which does nothing to help learn the basics of the exposure triangle.
If you can concentrate on full stops to begin with it can be easier to learn.

Shutter: Doubled or halved equates to twice or half as much light reaches the sensor....eg:

1/50 = x amount of light

1/100 = half as much light as 1/50

[....]
Click to expand...
Thanks Asha, Although I signed up here ages ago I'm only now able to get out with my camera, and that makes perfect sense of something that has been baffling me for a while.
 
 
Last edited:
id like to thank everybody that has contributed so far to this thread,I'm slowly beginning to get some of it now.i found a dvd by Karl taylor on beginners photography and it explains some of the basics quite well.I have bookmarked the links Mickey thanks and am closely reading evryones contributions.thankyou again.

I think my 1st eureka moment was realising that the shutter only opening for a split second as opposed to say 1 sec both at the same aperture would cause a lot more light to enter during the 1 sec opening which can result in a blur and that the very shorter say 1/500 opening time would produce a sharper image all other things being same but I'm guessing it would be darker image right?
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
id like to thank everybody that has contributed so far to this thread,I'm slowly beginning to get some of it now.i found a dvd by Karl taylor on beginners photography and it explains some of the basics quite well.I have bookmarked the links Mickey thanks and am closely reading evryones contributions.thankyou again.

I think my 1st eureka moment was realising that the shutter only opening for a split second as opposed to say 1 sec both at the same aperture would cause a lot more light to enter during the 1 sec opening which can result in a blur and that the very shorter say 1/500 opening time would produce a sharper image all other things being same but I'm guessing it would be darker image right?
Click to expand...

Yes, but you'll tie yourself in knots if you start thinking about what various settings do without basing it on correct exposure.

Things will get far too 3 dimensional if you start worrying about over and under exposure whilst also thinking about movement etc.

As you can see above there's a lot of disagreement about what to learn first, I'm in the semi-auto camp. I think before you venture into Manual you should understand both the effects of shutter speeds and apertures on an image, and what your meter is reading and how it effects the image.

Unfortunately, whilst you're learning that, you also need to learn the really important stuff, which is that photography is about light and composition and storytelling. Because you can learn to take technically perfect pictures which will be absolute rubbish if they're not 'good pictures'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top