Nightclub photography

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k114l3d

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Hi Guys,

i have been shooting nightclub photography and just want some feedback on my pics.

I am using a canon 600d and a sigma 17-50mm f2.8 lens along with a flashgun and stofen diffuser.

One issue i have is pics arent as sharp as i would like them. I use the following settings:
f2.8, 1/4 shutter speed, ISO 200, and a flash power of 1/16th and shoot in RAW

I try to focus on the eyes but its quite tricky in nightclubs as its very dark.

Anyway below are some pics :)

Some critical feedback would be appreciated
 
Hmm, the forum seems to dull the pics out a little bit too. not sure why thats happening
 
What colour profile are you using ?
 
put a piece of 1/4 CTO gel on the flash.

Enable autofocus-assist LEDs on the flash/camera and it'll project a red grid to help the camera autofocus.

Never put out a picture like that last one, the lady on the left certainly isn't being flattered!
 
I think I have three criticisms...

The colour is really lifeless and is making them all look a bit green and sick.

You really need to engage with them a little more, pull some expressions from them and learn to shoot at the critical moment.

Don't show anything that's unflattering. Most of the above are unflattering in some way.
 
ah ok then. what would you suggest? i have my white balance set to flash. it comes around 6500k should i reduce to around 4000k?

the main issue i have is with getting sharp images on the face.

i have my af assist beam enabled on my flashgun and i try to aim the focus point on the eyes
 
k114l3d said:
ah ok then. what would you suggest? i have my white balance set to flash. it comes around 6500k should i reduce to around 4000k?

the main issue i have is with getting sharp images on the face.

i have my af assist beam enabled on my flashgun and i try to aim the focus point on the eyes
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For the focus you might have to look at a better quality lens (I'm not sure how that Sigma stacks up tbh) or manual focussing.

With the white balance, as long as you shoot RAW it doesn't matter - you can set it afterwards. I would say perhaps you're letting too much ambient light in. Most of the nightclub photography I see has pretty much black backgrounds (or at least quite a bit darker than the people in the shot). More flash and a faster shutter may well help you here if the ambient light is messing with your white balance.
 
im no expert at club togging and have never done it, however unless im missing something a shutter speed of 1/4 and aperture of f2.8 isnt going to be ideal for sharp shots especially if theres groups of people. have you tried forgetting the ambient light and using more flash and faster speeds and adjust the aperture to give a wider depth of field...
 
2.8 is really shallow and unless your focus is spot on you won't get sharp images. I'd suggest going to the widest angle with that lens, and the minimum aperture I would use is f4. zoom with your feet "get closer to subject" ;). another bonus of doing it this way is, the closer you are to the subject the less flash power you'll need and this will extend your battery life.
 
ah ok then. yes i try to zoom with my feet. i usually use 1/16th power flash. i will try a higher aperture next time. i was thinking f4, 1/25 shutter and 1600 ISO? alternatively f4, 1/4 shutter and 200 ISO? my lens has USM and is image stabilized too if that makes a difference
 
To me a lot look out of focus.

Not even overly dark either in there.
 
Iceax said:
To me a lot look out of focus.

Not even overly dark either in there.
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yes thats the issue im having. it doesnt look too dark as the flash gun does well in lighting up the room, but without it the club is quite dark. do you think i would be better in choosing the middle focus point only, or manually focusing??
 
Heres one of mine from a VERY dark club

278295_10150708299520261_6314671_o.jpg


i think it may be a case of practise and your lens hunting in low light

A
 
k114l3d said:
yes thats the issue im having. it doesnt look too dark as the flash gun does well in lighting up the room, but without it the club is quite dark. do you think i would be better in choosing the middle focus point only, or manually focusing??
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It's not just your flashgun lighting the room, your settings are allowing the ambient to play too large a part.

It's not effective, it's distracting. People and furniture in the background are imposing on your images. All the 'faults' are down to the same issue.
 
are you bouncing the light off of the ceiling and is that contributing to the yellow cast? I would be alittle above f2.8-f4 esp for groups, 1/80 ish and then ettl flash it after that.
 
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I think somewhere in this forum is a very good thread on nightclub photography. In a nutshell:

1) Use a wideangle lens, preferably with zoom, as there usually isn't a lot of space to move backwards for framing. That said, don't overdo it, 16mm on full-frame definitely is too wide ;)
2) Use a TTL flash on the camera. Forget Stofens, just point it directly forward. Usually the ceiling is either far away or too dark for bouncing and the diffuser will only waste power. A ring-flash is not a bad idea though. Something along the lines of the Lumiquest SBIII or LTP might be worth giving a go as well.
3) Set your exposure for the ambient and all the colourful lights going off. This usually mean dragging your shutter (1/30-1/2) at a reasonably high ISO (400-3200). The flash will freeze your subjects, the through-the-lens metering does all the magic. Aperture to taste.
 
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yes im bouncing light off the ceiling. this particular club has a very low white ceiling so i think bouncing is ideal. i set it to 45 degrees and use a stofen as well as 1/16th power flash.

im shooting at the same club again tonight so will post some more pics up. i was thinking of the following settings but correct me if im wrong?

f4 aperture, approx 1/10th shutter (will know better tonight when i try it out), ISO800, and i will give manual focusing a go, otherwise just use the center focus point.

in regards to the flash, i am still tempted to stick with a stofen and 1/16th power, however will try TTL and possibly lose the stofen.

sound good?
 
k114l3d said:
yes im bouncing light off the ceiling. this particular club has a very low white ceiling so i think bouncing is ideal. i set it to 45 degrees and use a stofen as well as 1/16th power flash.

im shooting at the same club again tonight so will post some more pics up. i was thinking of the following settings but correct me if im wrong?

f4 aperture, approx 1/10th shutter (will know better tonight when i try it out), ISO800, and i will give manual focusing a go, otherwise just use the center focus point.

in regards to the flash, i am still tempted to stick with a stofen and 1/16th power, however will try TTL and possibly lose the stofen.

sound good?
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Turn on the auto-focus assist, if you are having issues with the focus. It will likely be too dark for manual focus and most viewfinders nowadays aren't equipped for it anyway. Central focus-point and sufficient aperture should take care of the focus issues.

45° and Stofen seems like an odd compromise. You are still getting a spot light-source from the direct light. I would either bounce straight up (without Stofen) or flash directly (also without Stofen, unless you are going extreme wide-angle). Remember, harshness (specularity) of your light depends on the apparent size, which the plastic cap doesn't change (much).

In my opinion, TTL was _made_ for this, as you are shooting at alternating subject-flash distances.
 
Cistron said:
Turn on the auto-focus assist, if you are having issues with the focus. It will likely be too dark for manual focus and most viewfinders nowadays aren't equipped for it anyway. Central focus-point and sufficient aperture should take care of the focus issues.

45° and Stofen seems like an odd compromise. You are still getting a spot light-source from the direct light. I would either bounce straight up (without Stofen) or flash directly (also without Stofen, unless you are going extreme wide-angle). Remember, harshness (specularity) of your light depends on the apparent size, which the plastic cap doesn't change (much).

In my opinion, TTL was _made_ for this, as you are shooting at alternating subject-flash distances.
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hmm i thought the whole point of a stofen was for 45 degree angles? when would you suggest using a stofen then?

i will give aiming the flash straight and no stofen a go, however i must say im not entirely convinced by it (hopefully will be proven wrong :))
 
k114l3d said:
hmm i thought the whole point of a stofen was for 45 degree angles? when would you suggest using a stofen then?

i will give aiming the flash straight and no stofen a go, however i must say im not entirely convinced by it (hopefully will be proven wrong :))
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The Stofen increases the throw angle of your light-source to something resembling a semi-sphere. Even if you point it upwards, some of the light will be directed forwards. At 45° some will bounce off the ceiling, some will directly hit your subject. The bounce is soft, the direct light is harsh. So you get a mixture. In the end it is down to taste and preference.

If the floors are lightly coloured, you might want to use the Stofen pointing straight forwards, as the floor bounce will give you some fill from below.
 
And if it's not too late to say:

We've told you 1/15 was too slow, you're sticking with 1/10th. Your shots won't be any different to what you've already produced. Get you shutter speed up to kill more of the ambient to freeze and isolate your subjects. And ETTL was designed for this kind of work, your choices appear to be based on guesswork rather than the advice you've been given.
 
Completely off topic, but when did Balloon Bar re-open. It's been a while since the fire next door.
 
k114l3d said:
yes im bouncing light off the ceiling. this particular club has a very low white ceiling so i think bouncing is ideal. i set it to 45 degrees and use a stofen as well as 1/16th power flash.

im shooting at the same club again tonight so will post some more pics up. i was thinking of the following settings but correct me if im wrong?

f4 aperture, approx 1/10th shutter (will know better tonight when i try it out), ISO800, and i will give manual focusing a go, otherwise just use the center focus point.

in regards to the flash, i am still tempted to stick with a stofen and 1/16th power, however will try TTL and possibly lose the stofen.

sound good?
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How did it go? Did you follow the advice?
 
Generally there's better separation with the ambient knocked back a bit, which has also eliminated the unsharpness due to subject movement. But there's a few spots where bright ambient on your subjects has created odd casts, I'd watch for that and knock it back more where you know it'll happen (if you're using ETTL it'd be a simple case of dropping the ISO).

You've still got crappy background objects drawing the eye, and I'm no expert on nightclub photography so I'll stop there. (if these were shots from a wedding reception delivered by a 2nd, they'd all be in the bin).

So; it's an improvement, but I think there's lots more you could do to create better 'photographs', but I'm no expert on the expected standard.
 
Phil V said:
Generally there's better separation with the ambient knocked back a bit, which has also eliminated the unsharpness due to subject movement. But there's a few spots where bright ambient on your subjects has created odd casts, I'd watch for that and knock it back more where you know it'll happen (if you're using ETTL it'd be a simple case of dropping the ISO).

You've still got crappy background objects drawing the eye, and I'm no expert on nightclub photography so I'll stop there. (if these were shots from a wedding reception delivered by a 2nd, they'd all be in the bin).

So; it's an improvement, but I think there's lots more you could do to create better 'photographs', but I'm no expert on the expected standard.
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have you got some examples of photos from a wedding reception i could see?? i just want to know what the standards are in wedding photography (as well as the exif data if possible)

thanks
 
k114l3d said:
have you got some examples of photos from a wedding reception i could see?? i just want to know what the standards are in wedding photography (as well as the exif data if possible)

thanks
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If you look on my site there's a gallery from the homepage 'getting down' with lots of dance floor shots.

But you're better off looking at the nightclub photography links because it's a completely different genre.

My remarks were based on the number of subjects which didn't look 'engaged' (I appreciate they're drunk) but most of the images are spoiled by odd expressions, others by background details.

But I can help with the technicals, it's a long time since I was in a nightclub, and there are experts posting stuff you should be looking at, rather than an old fart like me who might be miles wide of the mark.
 
Your biggest problem is little or no ambient light, so the images look dull and uninteresting.

A couple of people have linked to my guide already (thanks) so I won't repeat that.

I would start by reducing you aperture to around f4 and increasing your iso to help gather up some of that much needed ambience.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
Your biggest problem is little or no ambient light, so the images look dull and uninteresting.

A couple of people have linked to my guide already (thanks) so I won't repeat that.

I would start by reducing you aperture to around f4 and increasing your iso to help gather up some of that much needed ambience.
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Hi David,

I have my aperture at f4 for them shots. and a shutter of 1/25. ISO was 400 so i could try and increase to 800?

What else would you recommend?

I have read your guide a few times. You suggested a much slower shutter speed, on which people said was too slow, hence increased to 1/25

The previous week i used f2.8 and 1/4 shutter with these results

https://www.facebook.com/balloonbar...75441273290.1073741826.100002125196577&type=3

The issue was sharpness.

Help is much appreciated.
 
I think the issue you have is photographic, ie. what your background is.

When you were showing a bg it was just a load of drunk people and exit signs, David's shots have the nightclub lights create an interesting abstract background. It's close to the old adage of finding the background then placing your subjects against it.

Then there's the general thing of either engaging with subjects or candidly capturing them being 'themselves'. A cull of your sets to just the ones with no 'iffy' expressions, overshoot to get the best if people aren't at their best. But engagement is the portrait photographers most important tool, getting images out of people is psychology not photography.
 
markmullen said:
They are a touch soft but it doesn't look like motion, how does your lens shoot wide open? I am guessing it is the lens being soft wide open which is causing the issue with sharpness.
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im not 100% sure. i stopped down to f4 which seemed to improve alittle. it also has image stabilization built in too.

i think from previous reviews, the lens shoots quite sharp in the centre wide open, however is a little soft in the corners. however i cant really vouch 100% thats its true
 
I don't think it's the sharpness of the lens, take a look at the latest 2 photos with the blonde and ginger women. The first one is soft but the second is sharp, looking closer the hand holding the sign looks sharp so I'm guessing it's back focusing slightly or the technique is inconsistent.

I'm guessing the former as between the two shots of each subject it's mostly the closer ones which are softer.
 
simonbarker said:
I don't think it's the sharpness of the lens, take a look at the latest 2 photos with the blonde and ginger women. The first one is soft but the second is sharp, looking closer the hand holding the sign looks sharp so I'm guessing it's back focusing slightly or the technique is inconsistent.

I'm guessing the former as between the two shots of each subject it's mostly the closer ones which are softer.
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hmm well spotted. do you think its just a case of my lens needing some focus adjustment?
 
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