Nikon D7xxx owners thread

I have the sigma 10-20 f/3.5 and love it. it goes everywhere with me.
 
Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 About £200 cheaper than the f/3.5, sharper, and with less barrel distortion & CA.
 
Either today or next week will be heading to a shop to try them out. I've been looking at images from each of them, and the angle of view is definitely what I want. The question is whether I want speed (the 11-16 I'd be able to use indoors without flash) proper width (the 8-16 is still mostly rectilinear and the field of view is huge, but I can't use filters on it) or flexibility and a nicer price (the 10-20 is £150 cheaper than the other two).

Or get an SB700 and start learning to use flas properly. Decisions decisions :)
 
f2.8 is still not fast enough for the majority of indoor photography, you can't get away from using a flash, seriously lowering shutter speed, and/or bumping ISO. I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor to be honest.

Oddly enough if it is between wide lenses and a flash, I'd start with the flash first. Best purchase you can make. Don't discount the SB900 either, it is not that much more and very good.
 
dejongj said:
Oddly enough if it is between wide lenses and a flash, I'd start with the flash first. Best purchase you can make. Don't discount the SB900 either, it is not that much more and very good.
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I would say to go for the flash too if that's what you really want to learn how to do. Friend of mine recently got an D7000 and it came with a bunch of special offers from Nikon for big discounts on lenses and accessories. I gave him the same advice.

And I definitely agree about the SB-900. If you have to pay full price for the SB-700, the extra few quid for the SB-900 is definitely worth the difference.
 
dejongj said:
f2.8 is still not fast enough for the majority of indoor photography, you can't get away from using a flash, seriously lowering shutter speed, and/or bumping ISO. I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor to be honest.

Oddly enough if it is between wide lenses and a flash, I'd start with the flash first. Best purchase you can make. Don't discount the SB900 either, it is not that much more and very good.
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For stuff like capoeira it does make the difference. 2.8 at ISO1600/3200 means I can drop the shutter down to 1/320 - 1/500 - enough to freeze motion. And that can't be done with the slower lenses without flash (and having a flash go off in your face while doing martial arts is no fun). That said, it's not going to be that common a use and I can get around that. That's why I want to try them out first - as you say, I know I can do without the aperture.

The main reason I'd pick the 700 over 900 is that it's a bit cheaper, but a lot smaller and does almost everything the 900 does.
 
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I don't think he's suggesting you use slower lenses, he's suggesting you look at f/1.8 and f/1.4. :)
 
UWA, probly not. :)
 
Apparently me going to 'test some lenses then mull over it' means me walking out of the shop then back in to buy the thing :bonk:. 10mm is wide.

I love it. Now I need to learn to use it, and to really see in wide angle.

First couple of test shots:


Anchor by ausemmao, on Flickr



Rising tide by ausemmao, on Flickr

I am going to have to get a lot more cosy with subjects to use this with people - that image is cropped to about 90% original size, and I was 6-8 feet away :eek:
 
So, which lens did you get in the end?

Edit : Ahh just checked the EXIF data, Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6. Lovely lens, you won't be disappointed. :)
 
ausemmao said:
The main reason I'd pick the 700 over 900 is that it's a bit cheaper, but a lot smaller and does almost everything the 900 does.
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cheaper agreed won't have an argument against that. Physical size, yes can't get around measurements, and to be honest it was one of my main concerns.

I came from the excellent sb600 so thought the sb700 was done deal primarily due to size. However in the shop I had my sb600 out and the sb700 & sb900. And I was wow the sb900 is big however. It fitted in exactly the same slot as the 600 in my walk around bag. Went home and got my travel bag suitable for planes etc and again it fitted in there.

And the 200mm zoom sync with the lens is brilliant ;)

Your choice funds allowing :)
 
The SB-700 isn't THAT much cheaper than the SB-900 unless you get a super deal on a 700. SB-900 can be had for as low as £289 if you shop about.
 
Kaouthia said:
The SB-700 isn't THAT much cheaper than the SB-900 unless you get a super deal on a 700. SB-900 can be had for as low as £289 if you shop about.
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I know the SB-900 has come does in price, probably due to the sb-700.
I personally went for the sb-700 (would do the same even if priced the same)
because while the sb-900 has more power, it's no use to me if it shuts down after 20odd shot's...
 
MomentCapture said:
I know the SB-900 has come does in price, probably due to the sb-700.
I personally went for the sb-700 (would do the same even if priced the same)
because while the sb-900 has more power, it's no use to me if it shuts down after 20odd shot's...
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Surely thats only 20 full powered shots continuously? I'm sure its very rare that many people would need 20+ continuous full power shots, I was photographing a town centre cycling race the other night and thats an evening event, so flash was neccessary to freeze the very fast action. I didn't at any point use more than 5 full power shots per lap, because they are just so fast. In the real world I can't see this being a massive problem for 99% of users

Jake
 
I agree, one can always find a specialist requirement like that or gosh don't start talking about weather sealing. And yes in those case get something that fit that requirement, but I would like to think if someone had that requirement to start off with they would have mentioned it.
 
jacob12_1993 said:
Surely thats only 20 full powered shots continuously? I'm sure its very rare that many people would need 20+ continuous full power shots, I was photographing a town centre cycling race the other night and thats an evening event, so flash was neccessary to freeze the very fast action. I didn't at any point use more than 5 full power shots per lap, because they are just so fast. In the real world I can't see this being a massive problem for 99% of users

Jake
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Well a common example, would be outside portraiture in bright daylight, where your going to want to take one shot right after another, and having your flash conk out and go into thermal shutdown after 20 frames (5 of which are probably test shot's) is a pita, that's why I opted for the SB-700, sure not quite as powerful, but if I had a sb-900 I'd only be using it at 1/2 power anyway, with the sb-700 at least I don't have to worry about it suddenly going into thermal shutdown just as your model is getting into it...
 
MomentCapture said:
I personally went for the sb-700 (would do the same even if priced the same)
because while the sb-900 has more power, it's no use to me if it shuts down after 20odd shot's...
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I've only had my SB-900s shut down on 2 shoots, and that was only because I had 8xAA battery packs hooked up to 'em and I was firing off a bunch of full power pops in very quick succession.

And, you can disable that feature if you like, at which point it behaves just like the SB-800. It keeps going and going and overheating until it goes boom. :)

The SB-900 at half power (which I believe is still more powerful than an SB-700 @ full power) certainly isn't going to shut down in any real hurry, and even without the battery pack, the recycle time will be MUCH quicker than the SB-700.

I've got three SB-900s now, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a bunch more, funds allowing.
 
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I've had an SB600 overheat the batteries....I'd rather have the protection now.
 
Kaouthia said:
I've only had my SB-900s shut down on 2 shoots, and that was only because I had 8xAA battery packs hooked up to 'em and I was firing off a bunch of full power pops in very quick succession.

And, you can disable that feature if you like, at which point it behaves just like the SB-800. It keeps going and going and overheating until it goes boom. :)

The SB-900 at half power (which I believe is still more powerful than an SB-700 @ full power) certainly isn't going to shut down in any real hurry, and even without the battery pack, the recycle time will be MUCH quicker than the SB-700.

I've got three SB-900s now, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a bunch more, funds allowing.
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No, an SB-900 @ 24mm is only 0.3 Stops more powerful than a SB-700 at full power.
Also at full power the SB-700 recycles faster than the SB-900, so at about the same power output, recycle times should be about the same, but of course you can't plug a battery pack into a SB-700, but I found them a little cumbersome with my 580exii's tbh and rarely used them...
 
MomentCapture said:
No, an SB-900 @ 24mm is only 0.3 Stops more powerful than a SB-700 at full power.
Also at full power the SB-700 recycles faster than the SB-900, so at about the same power output, recycle times should be about the same, but of course you can't plug a battery pack into a SB-700, but I found them a little cumbersome with my 580exii's tbh and rarely used them...
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The SB900s guide number is 38m at iso 100, the SB700s is 28m
 
jacob12_1993 said:
The SB900s guide number is 38m at iso 100, the SB700s is 28m
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GN's are BS, I remember my 430exii had much lower 'stated' guide numbers than my 580exii's yet the power difference was actually marginal.
The same goes for the SB-700 Vs SB-900 @ 24mm zoom which is where you need the power, because this is the setting you would use in a light modifier, or when bouncing.
Rarely would you struggle with flash power with direct flash, but then again, I'd probably never want to use direct flash.

Analysis of Flash Power Comparison:
24mm: At 24mm, the SB-700 is only 1/3-stop behind the SB-900 in power, and roughly 1/3-stop more powerful than the SB-600.
85mm: At 85mm, the SB-700 is roughly 2/3-stop behind the SB-900 in power, and about 1/3-stop less powerful than the SB-600 in power at this setting.
120mm: on the Nikon SB-700 is about a stop behind the SB-900 in power.

http://flashraw.com/review-nikon-sb-700-speedlight/
 
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0.3 stops means 30% more powerful That's a pretty big difference. Of course no company rates their flashes @ 24mm, they're rated @ 35mm in FX format, which would probably be a greater difference in output. The SB-900 also zooms to 200mm for a LOT of punch that the SB-700 (nor pretty much any other Nikon/Canon flash on the market) can compete with.

The SB-700 is actually LESS powerful than the SB-600, which couldn't compete with the SB-900 in terms of power either.

The SB-900 also has a sync socket, which is useful if you're using the flash on brackets or adapters like the Strobies XS that don't really give you the room to mount wireless triggers on the hotshoe.

The SB-900 also has stroboscopic/repeat flash mode - admittedly something not everybody will use, but it's super fun to experiment with (although the SB-600 & SB-700 will act as repeat flash slaves in a CLS setup under more limited power & options as long as you have an SB-800/SB-900/SU-800 commander, but you can't stick an SB-700 on the hotshoe and do repeat flash).

I've never found battery packs to be an issue at all. They're just hung off the same light stand the flash is sitting on top of.
 
MomentCapture if you think the GN's are such BS why don't you lobby that the one comparing system gets abandoned and we do something else.

Also I am probably missing something, but please educate me why would I only want a 24mm zoom setting when bouncing? my iTTL/CLS system seems to disagree with you. Has Nikon programmed them all wrong?

As Kaouthia said already the power at 200mm is amazing...
 
Btw, I'm not saying the SB-700 is a slouch or completely useless. It's a fantastic flash for about £189, making it a shame that it costs £259. All I'm saying is, for the extra £30-40, you're much better off getting the SB-900.
 
Kaouthia said:
0.3 stops means 30% more powerful That's a pretty big difference. Of course no company rates their flashes @ 24mm, they're rated @ 35mm in FX format, which would probably be a greater difference in output. The SB-900 also zooms to 200mm for a LOT of punch that the SB-700 (nor pretty much any other Nikon/Canon flash on the market) can compete with.

The SB-700 is actually LESS powerful than the SB-600, which couldn't compete with the SB-900 in terms of power either.

The SB-900 also has a sync socket, which is useful if you're using the flash on brackets or adapters like the Strobies XS that don't really give you the room to mount wireless triggers on the hotshoe.

The SB-900 also has stroboscopic/repeat flash mode - admittedly something not everybody will use, but it's super fun to experiment with (although the SB-600 & SB-700 will act as repeat flash slaves in a CLS setup under more limited power & options as long as you have an SB-800/SB-900/SU-800 commander, but you can't stick an SB-700 on the hotshoe and do repeat flash).

I've never found battery packs to be an issue at all. They're just hung off the same light stand the flash is sitting on top of.
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While 30% more powerful may sound dramatic, 0.3 stops isn't really a big deal in terms of real world exposure is it, it's what you would call a bit lighter.

Then add to the fact, if your needing to pop the flash one frame after another, like you would at a portrait session for example, your not going to want to use your SB-900 near full power anyway as it will shut down.

Also SB-700 is more powerful at 24mm than SB-600.

Not saying the SB-900 is a bad flash or anything because it isn't, it's a really great flash, but for what I need in terms of 'off camera flash' and bounce flash, the SB-700 does a better job than the SB-900, due to it's smaller size respectable power, and the fact it has more practical thermal management.

If the SB-900 receives a firmware update so that is operates like the SB-700 in that regard I would have chosen the SB-900 due to it's greater zoom range and extra power, and I could actually use a battery pack without tripping thermal protection, because at half power a battery pack isn't needed anyway as recycle times are fast enough.
 
dejongj said:
MomentCapture if you think the GN's are such BS why don't you lobby that the one comparing system gets abandoned and we do something else.

Also I am probably missing something, but please educate me why would I only want a 24mm zoom setting when bouncing? my iTTL/CLS system seems to disagree with you. Has Nikon programmed them all wrong?

As Kaouthia said already the power at 200mm is amazing...
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I'l give you the benefit of that doubt that you are genuinely looking to learn more about flash lighting and are not simply being flippant.

As a general rule when you bounce flash, you want a wider zoom that will light more of the wall/ceiling providing a softer more natural looking quality of light (similar to ambient), leaving softer shadows due to the extra wrap from the larger light source and bounce from other surfaces.
Also there is an art to bouncing, similar to playing pool, only now your not worrying about the angel of the balls but the angel of the light relative to your subject.
As another general rule I don't allow any of the light from the flash head to directly see/hit the subject, which is why I don't use 'stofen' type diffusers as stray light will create unnatural specular highlights on the subject which is also why I always have the flash head point at least slightly away from the subject (so the the flash is facing a least slightly behind me).

Edit:

I also like to get a nice direction of light, never strait up at the ceiling if I can help it...

Below is an example of directional light, bounced with SB-700 mounted on D7K taken at night time in a dim room:

50mm5.jpg
 
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Looks as though we've found trigger number 2.
If anyone comes in here asking about D300+SB900 vs D7000+SB700....:LOL:

It's good to hear what they're like in use though and when each's limitations come into play - something that reviews rarely provide to the same extent.

Seeing as you're mentioning battery packs and lightstands, do most of you keep the flash off camera and use the pop up as a commander then?
 
ausemmao said:
Looks as though we've found trigger number 2.
If anyone comes in here asking about D300+SB900 vs D7000+SB700....:LOL:

It's good to hear what they're like in use though and when each's limitations come into play - something that reviews rarely provide to the same extent.

Seeing as you're mentioning battery packs and lightstands, do most of you keep the flash off camera and use the pop up as a commander then?
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I'm sure allot of people do that, but I use pocket wizards (TT1/TT5) personally, and before that I always exposed my flash manually off camera (still do most of the time but I use an AC3 to adjust power levels), TTL is great for 'on camera' work or when your pushed for time in more run'N gun scenarios.
 
MomentCapture said:
While 30% more powerful may sound dramatic, 0.3 stops isn't really a big deal in terms of real world exposure is it, it's what you would call a bit lighter.
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0.3 stops can be the difference between the limit of your lens's widest aperture, or having to go to that ISO level that gives you just slightly more noise than you're happy with, and who uses them at 24mm? Especially if you're bouncing?

That's almost a 75° field of view. What are you bouncing off? A wall? A brolly? The useless little white thing that sticks out the top of the flash?

MomentCapture said:
Then add to the fact, if your needing to pop the flash one frame after another, like you would at a portrait session for example, your not going to want to use your SB-900 near full power anyway as it will shut down.
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I'm not going at my subjects like paparazzi, nor am I often anywhere near close to full power unless I'm shooting into the sun.

MomentCapture said:
Also SB-700 is more powerful at 24mm than SB-600.
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That's as maybe, but the SB-600 is cheap crap. Consumer build quality, not up to the rigours of daily use. My three SB-900s have had far far more use and abuse than my two dead SB-600s sitting on the shelf.

MomentCapture said:
Not saying the SB-900 is a bad flash or anything because it isn't, it's a really great flash, but for what I need in terms of 'off camera flash' and bounce flash, the SB-700 does a better job than the SB-900, due to it's smaller size respectable power, and the fact it has more practical thermal management.
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It doesn't have "more practical thermal management", it just puts out at a lower maximum power, so it takes longer to get there. Set your SB-900 to output at the same output as the SB-700, and it'll probably take longer to overheat than the SB-700 does.

MomentCapture said:
If the SB-900 receives a firmware update so that is operates like the SB-700 in that regard I would have chosen the SB-900 due to it's greater zoom range and extra power, and I could actually use a battery pack without tripping thermal protection, because at half power a battery pack isn't needed anyway as recycle times are fast enough.
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As I said, I use battery packs with mine and very very rarely trip out the thermal protection (which, again, you can DISABLE if you really want to pretend you're using an SB-800 and blow up your flash :)). The two times I have tripped it out were both shooting straight into the sun at 1/4000th of a second in AutoFP HSS.

Under normal circumstances, never. Not for portraits.

ausemmao said:
Seeing as you're mentioning battery packs and lightstands, do most of you keep the flash off camera and use the pop up as a commander then?
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Usually, yes, although never with TTL. I control the power output of all my flashes manually from the commander. A lot less hassle and a lot quicker than manually walking over to each flash to adjust the power.

Sometimes though, line of sight isn't available and I have to go to the trusty RF-602s.
 
Kaouthia said:
It doesn't have "more practical thermal management", it just puts out at a lower maximum power, so it takes longer to get there. Set your SB-900 to output at the same output as the SB-700, and it'll probably take longer to overheat than the SB-700 does.
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It does, SB-900 stops working after 25 consecutive full power flashes (How long do you then have to wait before it's operational again?), and the SB-700 after 50 consecutive pops slows down to a 4 second recycle instead of just cutting out.

TBH I don't think the SB-900 is actually over heating when it cut's out after 25 pops, I just think it's thermal management system is overly cautious, the size difference alone, if anything, should allow allot more pops before it over heats.
Of course you can disable the feature, but that's not really practical either unless you want to end up with a paper weight.
 
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Kaouthia said:
0.3 stops can be the difference between the limit of your lens's widest aperture, or having to go to that ISO level that gives you just slightly more noise than you're happy with, and who uses them at 24mm? Especially if you're bouncing?

That's almost a 75° field of view. What are you bouncing off? A wall? A brolly? The useless little white thing that sticks out the top of the flash?
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Well my flash is nearly always at 24mm when bouncing indoors, unless I'm trying to achieve a harder light similar to a umbrella/softbox.
My flash is also at 24mm (as opposed to using the wide angle diffuser) inside all my light modifiers as I'v found it to be the most efficient in terms of power Vs softness.

It sounds like you know allot about lighting, so I'd be interested in seeing some of your examples with the SB-900.
 
MomentCapture said:
TBH I don't think the SB-900 is actually over heating when it cut's out after 25 pops, I just think it's thermal management system is overly cautious, the size difference alone, if anything, should allow allot more pops before it over heats.
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Yes, it's not actually overheating, it's a warning to prevent you from overheating. Perhaps slowing down the recycle time would be a better option if your style of shooting tends to trigger it a lot.
 
MomentCapture said:
I'l give you the benefit of that doubt that you are genuinely looking to learn more about flash lighting and are not simply being flippant.
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Thank you always a good approach, especially as I was. That example is indeed a bit softer than what I generally get when I leave mine to fully automatic. Interesting, still think the SB900 is better value for money, but very interesting nevertheless. I got to practise.

Kaouthia said:
Yes, it's not actually overheating, it's a warning to prevent you from overheating. Perhaps slowing down the recycle time would be a better option if your style of shooting tends to trigger it a lot.
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Didn't the last firmware update do that? Slowing down the recycle time? I must admit that I haven't hit that limit yet, but I'd rather have the warning than a broken speedlight.
 
MomentCapture said:
Well my flash is nearly always at 24mm when bouncing indoors, unless I'm trying to achieve a harder light similar to a umbrella/softbox.
My flash is also at 24mm (as opposed to using the wide angle diffuser) inside all my light modifiers as I'v found it to be the most efficient in terms of power Vs softness.
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When I'm bouncing (off something like a wall), I'm usually a few feet away from it, so I find that I don't really get much difference in softness if I'm shooting it at a longer length, I just get more power output at a lower power setting.

Inside brollies, softboxes and other modifiers, it depends on the look I'm attempting to achieve, the distance of the brolly from the light, or the angle of the softbox enclosure relative to the position of the flash head.

I don't recall specific zoom settings, as I just adjust on the fly depending on the look I'm after, but usually 50mm or longer, even when bouncing into 43" brollies.

MomentCapture said:
It sounds like you know allot about lighting, so I'd be interested in seeing some of your examples with the SB-900.
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I've got a studio booked for an entire day in a couple of weeks to do various experiments with the flashes and different modifiers, different zoom settings n' whatnot, and I'll go through all my stuff. So, I'll post a thread up on here once I've done that. :)
 
dejongj said:
Didn't the last firmware update do that? Slowing down the recycle time? I must admit that I haven't hit that limit yet, but I'd rather have the warning than a broken speedlight.
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It might've done, I'm not sure. I haven't updated the firmware on mine as I've yet to have any issues with them. If it ain't broke, don't fix it :)
 
Kaouthia said:
When I'm bouncing (off something like a wall), I'm usually a few feet away from it, so I find that I don't really get much difference in softness if I'm shooting it at a longer length, I just get more power output at a lower power setting.

Inside brollies, softboxes and other modifiers, it depends on the look I'm attempting to achieve, the distance of the brolly from the light, or the angle of the softbox enclosure relative to the position of the flash head.

I don't recall specific zoom settings, as I just adjust on the fly depending on the look I'm after, but usually 50mm or longer, even when bouncing into 43" brollies.


I've got a studio booked for an entire day in a couple of weeks to do various experiments with the flashes and different modifiers, different zoom settings n' whatnot, and I'll go through all my stuff. So, I'll post a thread up on here once I've done that. :)
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Providing your not using a reflective umbrella extremely close to the subject, I usually find it better to instead move the umbrella shaft down, so the umbrella is closer to the flash, I find this way the light stand is more stable, especially outside where umbrella's are generally lethal, and also you don't get so much deflection on the shaft, which can be a problem with the larger 60" umbrella's, especially the convertible ones from calumet, although the 60" calumet does provide a beautifully soft light.

Example of it's results below.

Apple.jpg
 
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