PC World And Camera Knowledge

The camera section in PC World Colchester is actually run by an amateur photographer, but the downside is he is definately a Nikon shooter and consequently isn't that up on Canon technology but if you want a Nikon he's your man.

The one in Cambridge however, I was looking at a 70-200L (it was on an angle in the cabinet so I couldn't see the controls or the legend) and asked whether it was the IS model and which f it was. 20 minutes and they answered the IS questions (clearly by going on google!!) and said it was the f2.8-f4. Facepalm
 
As an ex member of Currys staff (and probably going back there for Christmas/Easter/Summer) I gotta say there's a lot of ignorant comments on here. I by no means say that I take good photographs but I've always answered a customer's questions about cameras to the best of my abilities and a lot of the time I've had customers (many of them like you) say that they came in expecting a **** take but were surprised that they had a decent conversation with me and that I knew what I was on about.

Members of staff have specialisms. Mine is photography - if you talk to me about laptops (especially being a Mac user) I have pretty much no idea. In my old store there was a member of staff who specialised in every section - you just have to be lucky to talk to them if you're in that section. If you're unhappy with the service ask if there's another member of staff with more knowledge on the item you're looking to buy. I worked with guys who can tell you a specific model number of a TV or fridge if you tell them what specs you want, in the same way that I could tell you what camera and lens you wanted for a specific job.

In saying that, I can't say I entirely agree with Currys selling practices. Part of that is down to it being a chain store running on incredibly tight profit margins (on a £500 laptop we made £15-20 profit, before subtracting staff wages/store overheads, so please think about that the next time you buy a laptop with no extras with it and ask for discount) but part of it is down to the very nature of the store and the social/economic climate we are in at the moment.

Yes you do get total apes who have no idea about anything in the store but it's not often as simple or easy as it seems. Members of staff are under tremendous pressure to get figures (not just total sales figures, we were expected to mentally calculate percentages of sales plus accessories plus 'tech guys' services, multiplied by each different part of the store (White goods, cameras, TVs, home audio, computing, etc) plus the overall figure for you - your 'SQ'. This isn't your corner store where they figure out how much discount they can give you by how much money they have in the till. You tick boxes in a big chart after each sale to work out what else you need to sell that day to get your SQ up.

This seems like a bit of a rant but it's a place I've worked for for nearly two years and I've put a lot of effort into trying to be a half decent salesman and not **** people over. It seems like I'm trying to single handedly change the image you all, and most of the rest of the British population, has of Currys. I'm just asking that the next time you go into a PC World/Currys (same place) you have a little more respect for the members of staff unless they're quite obviously being rude to you.
 
Hey, Nuffles, quite right.

The problem is we tend to generalize, that is wrong.

I was Bannaed from Inverness Curries years ago when staff member was VERY rude to a woman customer, I said to her, in a normal voice "that is why they have just been voted worst retailer of the year by Watchdog", the manager IMMEDIATELY threw me and my DISABLED son out saying never return.

However I have been into PC world, Plymouth and whilst they could not help at least they did not bull either.

So you are right, perhaps we should stick to naming actual stores rather than a whole chain.

Plymouth Curries, on TWO occasions when staff training was supposed to end at 09:30 customers have been kept waiting till 09:50, banging on the door, when we entered I was the ONLY one to seriously complain, and got a free pack of blank DVD's

One thing I would say theough, you state we were expected to mentally calculate percentages of sales plus accessories plus 'tech guys' services, multiplied by each different part of the store (White goods, cameras, TVs, home audio, computing, etc) plus the overall figure for you

This is something that when I left school and went in to retailing we did as a matter of course, and on day release at retail college, these days staff cant even add up five amounts the same, without a tell.

My Grandmother OWNED three pubs, actuall owned, she also owned a shop, and at the age of 80 still ran down a list of takings faster that you can say Comet. Kids today eh!

If I can go into currys and work all that out in my head, why can't staff paid to, and I am nothing special, most there don't even know their tables these days.
 
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The only time I've ever been into a PC World and asked for advice the camera sales person was doing an A level in photography and was very helpful.

Stereotypes are fine as long as you are always prepared to accept that anyone you meet doesn't conform with them.
 
Hey, I like PC World, 'cause they stocked the 12-60mm and then remaindered it at about half price... thanks :D

The electrical stores are a bit random as regards the knowledge of the assistant and quality of advice, though. However, the advice I was given in one of the blue-top photo chains on a lens ran as far as "it's expensive for what it is", whilst the assistant handled the lens roughly as it was demonstrated. After that, I went across town, ordered it from an independent and got it for £5 cheaper a week later.
 
well done Nuffles.

And what an awful thread. Started by someone with clearly no knowledge of cameras (the whole mirror up, sensor thing) and then the vultures descend.

Various smug gits openly admitting going in and, for a laugh, highlighting peoples shortcomings when theyre clearly up to the eyeballs in their own and making a meal of it every chance they get. The only reason you feel smug and superior talking down to staff like that is that they cant answer back for fear of a dismissal, but what they clearly would like to say, and i'll say it for them, is **** off you patronising ****.

Im new here and if this is the average state of poster on here (hell, i'll generalise since every one else does) then i dont mind a ban for the tone of this post, this place wont be missed.

I hate these threads and im bloomin annoyed.
 
essexash said:
well done Nuffles.

And what an awful thread. Started by someone with clearly no knowledge of cameras (the whole mirror up, sensor thing) and then the vultures descend.

Various smug gits openly admitting going in and, for a laugh, highlighting peoples shortcomings when theyre clearly up to the eyeballs in their own and making a meal of it every chance they get. The only reason you feel smug and superior talking down to staff like that is that they cant answer back for fear of a dismissal, but what they clearly would like to say, and i'll say it for them, is **** off you patronising ****.

Im new here and if this is the average state of poster on here (hell, i'll generalise since every one else does) then i dont mind a ban for the tone of this post, this place wont be missed.



I hate these threads and im bloomin annoyed.
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This is a FREE country in case you had not noticed and thank God it is, freedom of speech, and this is a public board where we are allowed to comment, unlike in a repressed dictatorship, in fact you have been the most abusive here ....

Bye bye :razz:
 
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Iris said:
My other half is convinced they serve a purpose, so to appease him I put one on my kit lens ;)
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And some like me know there are reasons to use them so please do not insult my intellegence by stating I am a fool for using them OJ and more.
 
i used curry's to buy my first dslr, and being a greenhorn to digital photography, took it home had a play and i kept getting a flashing in view finder, i took it back and the so called expert in the shop he said oh yeah its definetly a fault, we hav'nt got a replacement, but we have at another branch, took it to other branch, changed camera, same thing happened with new one, thought strange not two surely, ended up phoning nikon and they said it was normal, it was a funtion to reccomend best option for camera,
how do they survive it is a store for the masses, there is not a camera shop in my local town, otherwise thats where my money would go
 
wallyboy said:
i used curry's to buy my first dslr, and being a greenhorn to digital photography, took it home had a play and i kept getting a flashing in view finder, i took it back and the so called expert in the shop he said oh yeah its definetly a fault, we hav'nt got a replacement, but we have at another branch, took it to other branch, changed camera, same thing happened with new one, thought strange not two surely, ended up phoning nikon and they said it was normal, it was a funtion to reccomend best option for camera, how do they survive it is a store for the masses, there is not a camera shop in my local town, otherwise thats where my money would go
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They survive, just, because people are naive/gullible and amazingly believe the C^&% PC world say "with you every step of the way"...... unless it is a hard question!

Sorry, but you went there, and that is not intended to be an insult.

If more people joined a camera club, computer club before rushing off to buy a camera they would go bust.

And as Currys are the same company well there you are.
 
JSER said:
And some like me know there are reasons to use them so please do not insult my intellegence by stating I am a fool for using them OJ and more.
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I've already explained why I havnt called you, or anyone else who uses one a fool, in quite a reasonable post earlier on.

I'm not in the habit of insulting people, either on the Internet or in person.
 
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The issue with PCW/Curries is that it come down to the residual skill of the member of staff in front of you

I have met the odd member of staff what knows their stuff, but these seem to be in a minority. Since the product training seems to be minimal, then by default, it is unlikely you will meet an expert

My experience is that most PCW staff, just read what's on the side of the box to me, they dont know a great deal about the product, and they certainly dont have the product knowledge to make an intelligent comment that aids the buying decision

For the member of staff that came on here who actually knows about cameras - where are you now? Its a shame - Dixons WAS originally a camera store, in a way, its in the companies DNA

In saying that, the whole retail sector has generally de-skilled over the last years, where real product knowledge and service generally has dissipated
 
odd jim said:
Each to their own, but salesmen do con the unawares into buying UV filters, as they make huge mark ups on these and thats common knowledge.
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Yep. Chain stores or where commission is earned tend to be some of the worst. I used to work in an electrical shop. I heard some whoppers in the years I was there. Couple even got the trading standards onto us. I always used to try steer people in the right direction though because I hated the dishonesty. Made no difference to me whether someone bought a £200 vacuum or a £50 vacuum.
 
Richard King said:
The issue with PCW/Curries is that it come down to the residual skill of the member of staff in front of you

I have met the odd member of staff what knows their stuff, but these seem to be in a minority. Since the product training seems to be minimal, then by default, it is unlikely you will meet an expert

My experience is that most PCW staff, just read what's on the side of the box to me, they dont know a great deal about the product, and they certainly dont have the product knowledge to make an intelligent comment that aids the buying decision

For the member of staff that came on here who actually knows about cameras - where are you now? Its a shame - Dixons WAS originally a camera store, in a way, its in the companies DNA

In saying that, the whole retail sector has generally de-skilled over the last years, where real product knowledge and service generally has dissipated
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100%

I used to love shopping in Dixons, what, thirty years ago, when it was a photography supplier, now I wouldn't go in the door for anything.

I have an Ironmungers locally, I go out of my way to go there first for DIY, they have been there for 70 years and you are "served", they know the game and spend as long as you like providing service, it's died out these days in most places and thirty five years I WAS in retail, and gave a service. For the service I can get in a large store I would rather shop online now and research what I want before doing so on the web.
 
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All of this is much the same as the local grocers or post office, Large conglomerate stores and the Internet have drawn us in with lower prices, so the small camera shops have dissappeared along with the knowledge and replaced with 'salesman' who are driven to evaluate the bottom line in profits not service. A case of use it or lose it, so think about supporting the local shops when you can, or we may end up with one massive Tesco's and no other choice.
 
Nuffles said:
Part of that is down to it being a chain store running on incredibly tight profit margins (on a £500 laptop we made £15-20 profit, before subtracting staff wages/store overheads
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I very much doubt that, I was a trainee deputy manager at a large retailer and know for a fact that is FAR from correct.
 
artyman said:
All of this is much the same as the local grocers or post office, Large conglomerate stores and the Internet have drawn us in with lower prices, so the small camera shops have dissappeared along with the knowledge and replaced with 'salesman' who are driven to evaluate the bottom line in profits not service. A case of use it or lose it, so think about supporting the local shops when you can, or we may end up with one massive Tesco's and no other choice.
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All valid points Ken, particularly about local suppliers being forced out by the giants. There is however a simple factor - money. Would I knowingly by a camera for £900 from a local shop (friendly, knowledgeable staff), or would I use a large retailer who can do the deal for £750?
I, like many people cannot afford to lose £150 on a deal, and that is the harsh reality of the situation.
 
JSER said:
I asked them once as a laugh acting as a newby, what the difference was between a large (full frame) and small eos60D sensor, the answer was "one is bigger than the other".
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Well that is the only real difference. All other aspects are a function of the relative size.

Plus there's the point that you went in as if you were a newbie, so the sales member probably thought he had to dumb it down for you. Most people they deal with know very little about cameras and get easily confused and walk out if overloaded with complex information they don't understand. Now I've met some pretty dumb people in Currys and the like, but I've also met some very knowledgable people there as well, but they only open up once they realise you know what you're on about.

In fact I've just remembered that in the Best Buy near me one of the blokes who works on the camera dept used to work in Bristol Cameras and knows what he's talking about.
 
Toggerman said:
Go on then.
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larger sensor, with same pixel count = larger pixel sites

That means relativity, the resolving power of the lens is less important
That means that higher ISO performance is easier, as more light is collected per pixel (larger surface area)

Larger sensors require different lenses (i.e DX lenses wont work across the full frame)

We could go on
 
Richard King said:
larger sensor, with same pixel count = larger pixel sites

That means relativity, the resolving power of the lens is less important
That means that higher ISO performance is easier, as more light is collected per pixel (larger surface area)

Larger sensors require different lenses (i.e DX lenses wont work across the full frame)

We could go on
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Ok, but if you were to take that crop sensor and then stretch it to the same size as that full frame sensor whilst keeping the same pixel count it would then act in the exact same way as the full frame sensor.

Everything you have mentioned is a function of the size. The only other thing to consider is pixel density but in the original message he merely said "full frame sensor" and not a specific one, so one would make an assumption on the same pixel count as the 60D sensor which was mentioned in order to make a fair answer.
 
I expect someone selling me a camera for 3.5K to know the difference and be able to explain it to me. Or the job is basically selling a box with a price ticket on... and you can do that by going to e-bay or Amazon

If high-street stores actually want to have a long term business, they need something you cant get on-line

De-skilled sales staff is a myopic policy - as from my point of view, the guy with the knowledge could sell more, at a higher price tag, as he could offer assistance with the buying process by actually knowing his stuff. Equally, he would gain respect from the customer by not overselling a product that is not needed. That customer will then become a valuable long term customer
 
Richard King said:
I expect someone selling me a camera for 3.5K to know the difference and be able to explain it to me.
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But he did know the difference, the question was:

what the difference was between a large (full frame) and small eos60D sensor
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and the answer is size, apart from that they both fundamentally work in the same way, light sensitive pixels gather light and transfer it into electrical energy. A suitable follow up question would be: "How would that affect the quality of the pictures being taken?" or "what are the real world implications of the different sizes? Then you can go on about DoF, equivilant focal length, high ISO and such until you're blue in the face. But for the question asked the best answer was given.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Maplin has far mire knowledgable staff then pc world IMO
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I used to think this was true. I remember as young'un going into Maplin with my Dad and being bored rigid as he discussed circuit diagrams with the exceptionally knowledgeable sales staff. All branches seemed to employ staff with very good electrical/electronics knowledge.

Last few times I've been (in more than one branch), I've found the knowledge seems to have disappeared. Maybe I've been unlucky.
 
JSER said:
They survive, just, because people are naive/gullible and amazingly believe the C^&% PC world say "with you every step of the way"...... unless it is a hard question!

Sorry, but you went there, and that is not intended to be an insult.

If more people joined a camera club, computer club before rushing off to buy a camera they would go bust.

And as Currys are the same company well there you are.
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this so called expert belongs to the local camera club,
i bought a bamboo pen and touch, in currys couple of weeks ago, couldnt find anyone in shop to give me info on product,so bought it blindly and had to take it back next day due to fault, it was just a case of take it back money back,
 
I bought a compact from Currys/PC World earlier this week. My excuse is that it wasn't for me it was for my wife's school. I wouldn't normally buy there and certainly wouldn't expect to get any advice worth calling advice but they had the camera at £100 off. We pre-ordered over the internet. When I went to pick it up the box had been opened. It wouldn't be a problem I was told but when I took the camera out it has finger prints all over it including the lens. Of course it was their only one in stock so they offered to reserve me one at one of the other local stores - at a higher price to what I'd ordered it at on the web! As you can imagine I declined their offer.

The next day I went to pick the now reordered camera up from another store. Same result except I was proudly told that this one was not just the only one they had but they'd taken the display model off the shelf and put it in the box for me!! Incredible.

Third time lucky and found an unopened box at the next store.

I have to say I normally buy from my local proper shop (Dale Photographic) or Jacobs both of which do have a customer service focus. You can see why
 
Pityy this forum does not have a vote facility for who would/not use Currys/PCworld then we could send them the response.
 
fabs said:
You'd probably get about 20 or 30 people voting, wouldn't be indicative of anything.
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Even if you could get 100x that, they probably wouldn't care.

The bottom line is that if you know what you're looking for, you're probably not any interest to them - you'll just buy it online where it's cheaper anyway. They WANT the clueless fools that are easy to part with their cash, the people to whom they can upsell a SD card bundled with a 7D.
 
Byker28i said:
I'm dyslexic or at least my fingers are. I have a really good self help book, dyslexia for begonias :D

The filters debate is an old one, based on a lot of cheap uv filters being fitted. I used to use one, don't now.

As for PC world, helpful staff, but they are there to box shift lots of different items. You wouldn't expect them to be experts in everything, certainly not if you've spent ages researching a purchase, or have it as a particular interest. If I want specialist help I go to a specialist shop. If I want cheap prices for a consumer item, I use the box shifters.

Which reminds me, I bought a rather nice bottle of port this morning
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Pretty much my opinion, if I want great service/advice I tend to go to Calumet, and they've had a few thousand quid out of me in the past few years... however recently bought a CSC, PCW/Dixons/DSGi got my money as I didn't want any advice, just best price.

I've had good and bad customer service from many high St. chains including jessops, currys, PCW and John Lewis and I totally agree a lot if it is to do with individual staff at the branch.

I'd be very angry if I was handed ex-dixplay stock as new tho!
 
ronnus said:
Pretty much my opinion, if I want great service/advice I tend to go to Calumet, and they've had a few thousand quid out of me in the past few years... however recently bought a CSC, PCW/Dixons/DSGi got my money as I didn't want any advice, just best price.

I've had good and bad customer service from many high St. chains including jessops, currys, PCW and John Lewis and I totally agree a lot if it is to do with individual staff at the branch.

I'd be very angry if I was handed ex-dixplay stock as new tho!
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But, the regular advice on here, is too go to a shop, try out the camera and then buy online cheaper. So what are the shops supposed to do with all the cameras that people have opened,handled and used with no intention,whatsoever, of buying it?
 
fracster said:
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But, the regular advice on here, is too go to a shop, try out the camera and then buy online cheaper. So what are the shops supposed to do with all the cameras that people have opened,handled and used with no intention,whatsoever, of buying it?
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Box buying and on line solves the price problem, but not the service one.
we have now reached the stage where the independent dealer has virtually vanished.

I certainly do not blame the customer who knows what he wants and buys on price.

The problem is, there is not a retail sales model that fits service, knowledge and price.
 
fracster said:
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But, the regular advice on here, is too go to a shop, try out the camera and then buy online cheaper. So what are the shops supposed to do with all the cameras that people have opened,handled and used with no intention,whatsoever, of buying it?
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Indeed, but it's the same issue as with anything when people take stuff back to the shops? It's sent back for re-packaging or sold as ex-display. All those TV's on display have to be sold to someone..... Eventually!
 
fracster said:
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But, the regular advice on here, is too go to a shop, try out the camera and then buy online cheaper. So what are the shops supposed to do with all the cameras that people have opened,handled and used with no intention,whatsoever, of buying it?
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That's a good point, in the case of my latest camera I was prepared to go by reviews and opinions... I've been buying online enough to sort the wheat, and certain review sites give VERY in-depth reviews which are great if you have a bit of base knowledge to understand them.

When I bought my last DSLR I went to Calumet as I didn't have the knowledge to know what I was looking at, and even now that I know my way round a camera a little better, I'd still spend my big bucks there as I was very happy with the advice/input I got.

Open box stock is the retailers problem, a demo model is very different to a display model IMHO, and my beef is the disingenuous way some retailers fail to differentiate between new and demo/display and don't offer any discounts.
 
I brought my 5d mk2 from a major electrical retailer, and received excellent service from the enthusiastic sales assistant who may have not been the most knowledgeable but his efforts to secure me the best possible deal were 2nd to none, I would hazard a guess that I paid (3months or so ago) less than 99% of people who have brought the mk2 due to the assistants help! So I guess lol at your peril as you may never know what they can do for you if you spend a little time conversing! hurrah for the major electrical retailers......... sometimes :)
 
ronnus said:
Open box stock is the retailers problem, a demo model is very different to a display model IMHO, and my beef is the disingenuous way some retailers fail to differentiate between new and demo/display and don't offer any discounts.
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Curious, do you ask for a discount when you go to the supermarket as everything you buy is on display and a fair bit has probably been handled by other customers before you purchase it ?

There really is some shocking posts on this thread, having worked in retail for 25+ years i know how hard it can be for staff, the wages are crap and the pressure you are under to get a sale is normally immense, especially in the large retail chains where targets are the only thing.

Then you have to deal with a number of obnoxious customers who go out of there way to be as awkward and condescending as possible (judging by some of the posts in here, there are a few here).

As mentioned in one of the previous posts people expect to get fantastic service and internet prices otherwise its a case of try it out in the shop and order online :bang: and you wonder why there are no decent independants offering the service anymore :(

Also having worked in electrical retail i can assure you the margins that stores works on are incredibly low so offering discounts isn't an option most of the time.
 
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