Robin

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J H Foto

J H Foto

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Jeff
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HYLTON GEORGE said:
Excellent capture Jeff well done
GEORGE.
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It's comments like this that have ruined this Section. The picture is clearly not excellent and your comments George, I have to say are pretty pointless. If that's what you class as an excellent image then you have a lot to learn.

While the detail on the bird is ok the composition is very poor, it needs more space to the left and although I appreciate the bird was at the angle shown it would, imo, look a lot better straightened a good bit.

As for the PP,, I have no idea what on earth you think of when processing your images. This dire effort at selective colour has simply made an at best average pic into complete amateurish mess imo. Your processing here has added nothing to the overall photograph

You really need to think about what you are trying to achieve and not just process the life out of an image for the sake it if you wish to improve. If you are happy to glory on accepting comments such as Georges then fair enough but you ain't gonna take your photography to the next level.
 
BRASH said:
It's comments like this that have ruined this Section. The picture is clearly not excellent and your comments George, I have to say are pretty pointless. If that's what you class as an excellent image then you have a lot to learn.

While the detail on the bird is ok the composition is very poor, it needs more space to the left and although I appreciate the bird was at the angle shown it would, imo, look a lot better straightened a good bit.

As for the PP,, I have no idea what on earth you think of when processing your images. This dire effort at selective colour has simply made an at best average pic into complete amateurish mess imo. Your processing here has added nothing to the overall photograph

You really need to think about what you are trying to achieve and not just process the life out of an image for the sake it if you wish to improve. If you are happy to glory on accepting comments such as Georges then fair enough but you ain't gonna take your photography to the next level.
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Wow, you seriously need to think about how you offer crit.
 
The23rdman said:
Wow, you seriously need to think about how you offer crit.
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Why? It's honest crit as I see it. Tell me I'm wrong or offer something yourself instead of slagging my comments.

I've offered advice on composition and PP etc, stated the detail on the bird was favourable (albeit there is room for improvement) so as far as I'm concerned it was constructive.

Sometimes, particularly on here, folk don't like the truth, stark as it sometimes may be.
 
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BRASH said:
Why? It's honest crit as I see it. Tell me I'm wrong or offer something yourself instead of slagging my comments.

I've offered advice on composition and PP etc, stated the detail on the bird was favourable (albeit there is room for improvement) so as far as I'm concerned it was constructive.

Sometimes, particularly on here, folk don't like the truth, stark as it sometimes may be.
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There is a way of speaking the truth without being rude. I didn't say that your crit was wrong - it's your delivery.

You've managed to insult George without knowing anything about his level of expertise and virtually every word you wrote to the OP could have been worded so that it doesn't make them feel like they might as well dump the camera in a lake. There have been several threads on giving and receiving crit recently. You'd do well to read them because you have a good understanding of the skills needed to take good photos and pp them well, but zero people skills and masking them as "stark truth" does not make it okay.
 
The23rdman said:
There is a way of speaking the truth without being rude. I didn't say that your crit was wrong - it's your delivery.

You've managed to insult George without knowing anything about his level of expertise and virtually every word you wrote to the OP could have been worded so that it doesn't make them feel like they might as well dump the camera in a lake. There have been several threads on giving and receiving crit recently. You'd do well to read them because you have a good understanding of the skills needed to take good photos and pp them well, but zero people skills and masking them as "stark truth" does not make it okay.
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I have read the threads you mention and while I agree with some of it I also find some of it wish washy. As for people skills, I possess more than you'll ever know but I'll not go into that here because it's nobody's business. You may interpret my comments as rude but I don't. If I decided to be rude, you'd certainly know. As for insulting George, no offence was meant and having seen his work I am aware of his level of expertise.

Yeh, I do have an understanding of what it takes to produce a good bird photograph and I also have an appreciation of how "Ooh great pic" type comments have a negative impact on the quality of pictures because folk then accept sub standard pictures as being ok or better when they clearly are not. This has been a historical problem in this section and it appears to be coming more prevalent again. Hence, you'll note a lot of regular posters, including myself, have lost interest in posting images on here with such frequency. Which is a great shame because there were some really good bird photographers in this sub forum.

I will continue to voice my opinion as I see things within the Forum rules and I'm sure if I breach these the Mods will quickly let me know. As far as I'm concerned in regards to this Thread, my comments, while direct, robust and honest in my opinion where simply that and not rude nor were they intended to be. You may opine differently, that's your right but differing views does not necessarily make either of us right.
 
BRASH said:
I have read the threads you mention and while I agree with some of it I also find some of it wish washy. As for people skills, I possess more than you'll ever know but I'll not go into that here because it's nobody's business. You may interpret my comments as rude but I don't. If I decided to be rude, you'd certainly know. As for insulting George, no offence was meant and having seen his work I am aware of his level of expertise.

Yeh, I do have an understanding of what it takes to produce a good bird photograph and I also have an appreciation of how "Ooh great pic" type comments have a negative impact on the quality of pictures because folk then accept sub standard pictures as being ok or better when they clearly are not. This has been a historical problem in this section and it appears to be coming more prevalent again. Hence, you'll note a lot of regular posters, including myself, have lost interest in posting images on here with such frequency. Which is a great shame because there were some really good bird photographers in this sub forum.

I will continue to voice my opinion as I see things within the Forum rules and I'm sure if I breach these the Mods will quickly let me know. As far as I'm concerned in regards to this Thread, my comments, while direct, robust and honest in my opinion where simply that and not rude nor were they intended to be. You may opine differently, that's your right but differing views does not necessarily make either of us right.
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That's fair enough. I'm not here for an argument - that's the other room.
 
What are you talking about, I am lost........:naughty:
 
BRASH

A training course i attended taught me to smile when i answer the phone,perhaps you could try smiling when you type :exit:;)
 
mikew said:
BRASH

A training course i attended taught me to smile when i answer the phone,perhaps you could try smiling when you type :exit:;)
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Yeh, I can see that from your avatar.:D

I always smile while I type, in fact I smile almost all of the time then occasionally laugh too.
 
Thats OK then, I am not interested in what he has to say..............:tumbleweed:
 
BRASH said:
I have read the threads you mention and while I agree with some of it I also find some of it wish washy. As for people skills, I possess more than you'll ever know but I'll not go into that here because it's nobody's business. You may interpret my comments as rude but I don't. If I decided to be rude, you'd certainly know. As for insulting George, no offence was meant and having seen his work I am aware of his level of expertise.

Yeh, I do have an understanding of what it takes to produce a good bird photograph and I also have an appreciation of how "Ooh great pic" type comments have a negative impact on the quality of pictures because folk then accept sub standard pictures as being ok or better when they clearly are not. This has been a historical problem in this section and it appears to be coming more prevalent again. Hence, you'll note a lot of regular posters, including myself, have lost interest in posting images on here with such frequency. Which is a great shame because there were some really good bird photographers in this sub forum.

I will continue to voice my opinion as I see things within the Forum rules and I'm sure if I breach these the Mods will quickly let me know. As far as I'm concerned in regards to this Thread, my comments, while direct, robust and honest in my opinion where simply that and not rude nor were they intended to be. You may opine differently, that's your right but differing views does not necessarily make either of us right.
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Most people know that Brash and I get on well, saying that, even I sometimes cringe a bit when I read his posts. This post is absolutely spot on, praising poor shots rather than saying why they are poor has had a very negative impact on the quality of shots in this forum. Whilst they are still some superb bird photographers on here, the forum has lost many and many others do not post as often as they once used to.

There is no point saying an image is great when it clearly isn`t, we need to try and explain why the image is not great and how to improve on it. The OP will then learn and the standard will improve.

Just my opinion I hasten to add.
 
BRASH said:
Yeh, I can see that from your avatar.:D

I always smile while I type, in fact I smile almost all of the time then occasionally laugh too.
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Just calm down folks...lifes too short
Agree with Brashes crit.... but not the way its delivered
Also agree there is no point in praising poor shots, but that depends on the skill of that poster!
Keep calm and Carry On!
 
See why this particular forum has taken some stick recently,having made what i thought was a fairly reasonable responce.Being far from an expert in bird photography it seems i'looking at them in a different light to you guys who want the clouds to roll back and the bird to stand out winking its eye.Thats not for me hasten to add would rather real off a number of shots without messing about cleaning them up.Perhaps our friend BRASH should have been a journalist certainly writes a good composition.
On that note folks certainly will not be contributing in section would get a stiff neck looking over my shoulder everytime.
GEORGE.
 
George, everybody has to learn, no matter how good they are now, they all began somewhere.

I agree that brash is a bit abrupt, but he is right. Praising poor shots does not help anybody improve.
 
Brash has his own style - it takes some getting used to - it took me sometime to do that - he says what some think in a very harsh way - most would just pass the image by and say nothing, but he does know his Birds and what he is talking about, but diplomacy is not high on his list of priorities.

If there was some system of numerically "scoring" an image in various areas without being personal, maybe it would help, but saying something is good when it is not does not help anyone ………. many now just keep quiet unless they know the "poster" ………. Brash is not a fan of Robins unless he takes the image ……….. so I will be posting a few at the first available opportunity.

I'm now used to Brash …… so I don't get upset or annoyed ………. he is just part of the "rich tapestry of life" that makes this Bird section the more interesting ……. don't worry about it he is just a (leave you to chose your own word).

He certainly should have more respect for his elders, i.e. me and gramps etc., …… life ain't what it was like when I was a lad
 
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BillN_33 said:
Brash has his own style - it takes some getting used to - it took me sometime to do that - he says what some thinks in a very harsh way - most would just pass the image by and say nothing, but he does know his Birds and what he is talking about, but diplomacy is not high on his list of priorities.

If there was some system of numerically "scoring" an image in various areas without being personal, maybe it would help, but saying something is good when it is not does not help anyone ………. many now just keep quite unless they know the "poster" ………. Brash is not a fan of Robin unless he takes the image ……….. so I will be posting a few at the first available opportunity.

I'm now used to Brash …… so I don't get upset or annoyed ………. he is just part of the "rich tapestry of life" that makes this Bird section the more interesting ……. don't worry about it his is just a (leave you to chose your own word).

He certainly should have more respect for his elders, i.e. me and gramps etc., …… life an't what it was like when I was a lad
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Ha ha. I didn't criticize the subject on this occasion tho Bill:). I'll now save that until you post your 'Christman Card' shots. Assume the position and brace yersel;)
 
Feel need to try and clarify here guys thought when you made a critic it was made on the particular photo not on the some other critic if you get my drift.
Certainly the original photographer would be able to compare the various feedback made by other photographers.
Once we get past the judge and jury system on this section things may improve.
Not wanting to protract this any further,will bow out now.
GEORGE.
 
HYLTON GEORGE said:
Feel need to try and clarify here guys thought when you made a critic it was made on the particular photo not on the some other critic if you get my drift.
Certainly the original photographer would be able to compare the various feedback made by other photographers.
Once we get past the judge and jury system on this section things may improve.
Not wanting to protract this any further,will bow out now.
GEORGE.
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The thing is George, Brash was really correct in what he said, "Excellent capture Jeff well done" is not doing the OP any favours.There is no malis in this it is just the truth.For the last year at least, people on TP have been pushing to get honest critique,they moan becuase nobody can be bothered to give it,and your reply unfortunately is a typical example.Let me ask you something and see if you can give me an honest answer.When you looked at the picture of the Robin what thoughts about it went through your mind? Did everything seem good,nothing out of place,one of the best Robin shots you have ever seen? I doubt that very much,which makes me wonder why you left the comment that you did.With regards to exposure and sharpness the shot is good,but it falls down on the other points that were mentioned.If as a photographer you cannot see that, then there is something seriously wrong.Feel free to go find another forum if you wish, personally it would be better for you to stay, enjoy the bumpy ride and realise that there are no such things as enemies in here but just ordinary people,all with different ways of expressing themselves, trying to HELP other members out along the way.
 
I just ignore him.......................................:banana:
 
Hi Rich trying to stand back from this but your post attracted me,looking at the OP photo saw following
feather details was ok head and eye detail was ok placement in photo was ok [despite indication should have been further over knit picking ]
Did notice ADE liked photo
Now the apparent main problem PP have looked into OP PHOTO GALLERY would say he can handle PP.
So Rich felt should have the respect to reply to you,the verbal feedback that was metered my way could and should have been toned down despite what you feel as you put it
could not buy it.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR CHART.
GEORGE.
 
WTF...................................:cool:
 
OK................................;)
 
Well after looking at Jeff`s Flckr I would agrre that he does indeed have a strong understanding of PP. And on that note I would have to ask why he processed this the way he did.It is clearly not on par with any of his other work, were you attempting to do something different with regards to stying it Jeff?As always a little bit of an explanation as to what your intentions were are always good.No you do not have to explain anything to me or anybody else,but if you do not then you have to expect the consequences to a certain degree.I for one could not tell if this was all done intentionally or not
shrug_zpsexazxtcx.gif
 
The way you see it is the way I intended :) No worries earlier this evening I sold this image to a Christmas magazine........:banana:
 
J H Foto said:
The way you see it is the way I intended :) No worries earlier this evening I sold this image to a Christmas magazine........:banana:
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Congratulations,am I supposed to be impressed by that?
 
HYLTON GEORGE said:
REST MY CASE AMEN
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What case is that exactly then George? Earlier this evening he sells his shot and seems so excited by that fact.Leaving it untill 23.00 is a bit late to tell us all don`t you think? Lol!
 
One thing i have never understood is why people post pictures in a critique section and then dont allow editing,not that ime suggesting members like BRASH should pp every critiqued image but ime sure on occasion it would help.
 
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BRASH said:
Yeh, I can see that from your avatar.:D

I always smile while I type, in fact I smile almost all of the time then occasionally laugh too.
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Every one including my wife tells me i am Victor Meldrew so i thought i would give in and go with it.;)
 
Thanks for all the kind words............(y)
 
Now I'm ready to give crit as harsh as Brash's before the op starts thinking that his pp is decent. Maybe you could explain what you were trying to do first though, because the selective colour is, um, odd...
 
mikew said:
One thing i have never understood is why people post pictures in a critique section and then dont allow editing,not that ime suggesting members like BRASH should pp every critiqued image but ime sure on occasion it would help.
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It was the norm at one time, so much easier to do an edit to get a point across. Problem being a lot of people do not even know that there is an option to change the allow edit in their profile,just like most never read the rules or that everything listed under " Photo Genres" is a place for discussion and critique. ;)
 
Once again thanks everyone for your support and kind words..............:rolleyes::eek::):)
 
IMHO. Jeff's images are getting better technically …….. it's a bit like "Strictly Come Dancing" (and don't you lot say you don't watch it - what else is there to do), ……… that's the way I look at it ………….. Craig on one end and Bruno on the other
 
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