Romanian fruit pickers

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ecoleman said:
Because the brits are lazy. Youth of today seem to think they will walk out of school, college, university and waltz into a high paying cushy job.
They are not prepared to start at the bottom and work their way up the ladder.

I fully support the government and the caps they are imposing on benefits, but IMHO it's not enough. Under no uncertain terms should benefits pay more than any job, except for maybe the first 6 months when somebody is between jobs and needs some help with living costs.

Child benefit and child tax credits should be capped at 2 kids as well. Why should I pay to look after other peoples kids. Mine are expensive enough!
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Don't the Germans have a system where you get up to 12 months benefits if you lose your job at the salary you earnt? Seems fair, you pay in loads in tax then when you need help you get proper support. If someone earns £50k and loses job then the £100 or whatever they get now will not make a dent in a mortgage.
 
daugirdas said:
Bankers without university education sounds just as scary after the big collapse.
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Why? Those with a university education managed to f*** it up just fine
 
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And before someone spits the dummy out and wave the racist flag...... I have really good friends and colleagues from Australia(she nearly got deported recently lol), Nigeria (she didn't try to scam money from me but she has brought a great skill and knowledge to the local community), Romanian (she is lovely and a cancer doctor) and Polish (tattooist and all round good guy).......I like a lot of Brits embrace immigration of people of with skills and who can contribute to the local economy
 
JonathanRyan said:
First, we'd need to leave the EU. Much as I believe that's a good thing, it isn't going to happen soon.



There's a whole European directive on it. Basically I have the right to go and live anywhere I like in Europe for 3 months. Over that I'll need a job to stay (well, to be engaged in "economic activity"). Same thing for any law abiding European citizen. Parliament could make up whatever rules they like for (say) Australians. But for EU citizens they would need a derogation and the one that existed for Romania expired at the end of last year IIRC.
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Ye of little faith. Farage or Cameron will give us the choice. We should seize it and seize a chance for Britain to choose her destiny.
 
ST4 said:
I agree with all, but the 1st para, just make them. They all think they should go to uni, colledge rather than just get a job and some money to their name. Cut the student loans for non essential/non accademic courses and all this free uni stuff, and that will drive kids into work
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I hate this obsession with sending everyone to Uni. If your clever then go! If not, go and get a job. Loads of people I know have degrees but are thick as pig s**t.

Make Maths, Physics, Science, Engineering, Medical etc... degrees free - charge for the lifestyle/pointless ones like American Studies (my wife did this), Media Studies etc...
 
ST4 said:
Ye of little faith. Farage or Cameron will give us the choice. We should seize it and seize a chance for Britain to choose her destiny.
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Both those things are fairly likely. But not soon. It really will take a while to unpick the EU laws from our own.

For one thing.....what do we do about Romanians living and working here now?
 
cambsno said:
I hate this obsession with sending everyone to Uni. If your clever then go! If not, go and get a job. Loads of people I know have degrees but are thick as pig s**t.

Make Maths, Physics, Science, Engineering, Medical etc... degrees free - charge for the lifestyle/pointless ones like American Studies (my wife did this), Media Studies etc...
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I'd be OK with this.
 
archangel said:
And before someone spits the dummy out and wave the racist flag...... I have really good friends and colleagues from Australia(she nearly got deported recently lol), Nigeria (she didn't try to scam money from me but she has brought a great skill and knowledge to the local community), Romanian (she is lovely and a cancer doctor) and Polish (tattooist and all round good guy).......I like a lot of Brits embrace immigration of people of with skills and who can contribute to the local economy
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I also forgot to mention.......they are voting Tory or UKIP...... one has even joined the UKIP party....
 
JonathanRyan said:
Both those things are fairly likely. But not soon. It really will take a while to unpick the EU laws from our own.

For one thing.....what do we do about Romanians living and working here now?
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There are some good precedents made by 2 well known states around 70 years ago :p

[btw. I do not suggest this seriously]
 
archangel said:
Waiting for the padlock.....:D
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:D
 
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viv1969 said:
Just to be a devil's advocate....perhaps also the foreign workers are prepared to work cash in hand for less than the minimum wage.

Still, at least those in the fields are working.
Migrants that don't find employment in a set period of time would be on a National Express back home for me.
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What you are saying is mostly under the discretion of each member state to police, control and enforce as they wish. Cameron has barely started to control the unnecessary benefit waste while blatantly blaming the EU. There is no need to, they should just clean up the national laws and calm down like the election was already over :)
 
archangel said:
I also forgot to mention.......they are voting Tory or UKIP...... one has even joined the UKIP party....
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So they are UK nationals if they are voting? If I was making business from you I would probably tell you the same thing if it meant better revenue :p :)
 
daugirdas said:
What you are saying is mostly under the discretion of each member state to police, control and enforce as they wish. Cameron has barely started to control the unnecessary benefit waste while blatantly blaming the EU. There is no need to, they should just clean up the national laws and calm down like the election was already over :)
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In relation to my post, you make no sense whatsoever.
 
daugirdas said:
So they are UK nationals if they are voting? If I was making business from you I would probably tell you the same thing if it meant better revenue :p :)
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They are EU nationals so they can vote.....the Nigerian is now a fully fledged British citizen
 
viv1969 said:
In relation to my post, you make no sense whatsoever.
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Whatever! If it is not clear a) state has the right and duty to expose cash in hand employers and employees; b) the state member can have a much stricter benefit policy for migrant workers (and own citizens) than currently applicable in the UK. So why is it the fault of EU that local laws are not adequate?

archangel said:
They are EU nationals so they can vote....
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in local (council) elections... and European Parliament.
 
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cambsno said:
Don't the Germans have a system where you get up to 12 months benefits if you lose your job at the salary you earnt? Seems fair, you pay in loads in tax then when you need help you get proper support. If someone earns £50k and loses job then the £100 or whatever they get now will not make a dent in a mortgage.
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South Africa have a similar system where you pay into UIF (unemployment insurance fund). If you loose your job (not walk out) you can get half your salary for six months. That's it, then you're on your own.
 
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This article (which is long)

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n19/james-meek/in-farageland

is well worth reading IMO. However, in it the author talks to various people one of whom said,

‘I’ve got a friend that runs a business,’ ... ‘He has about 15 or 16 Polish people working for him, because he only has to pay them £200 a week each. He doesn’t have to give them holiday pay, sick pay, annual leave or anything like that.’

‘They’re everywhere, the Polish,’ Breach said. ‘If they come over here and work for a living that’s fine, but they’re putting people out of work as well. You won’t get a harder worker than a Polish, they’ll work very hard and get paid peanuts. Who’s going to turn that away?’

Is this another side to immigrant workers?

Dave
 
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daugirdas said:
Whatever! If it is not clear a) state has the right and duty to expose cash in hand employers and employees; b) the state member can have a much stricter benefit policy for migrant workers (and own citizens) than currently applicable in the UK. So why is it the fault of EU that local laws are not adequate?.
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No, It's possibly Westminster's fault that in many cases the minimum wage is one that people can't live on.

But it's also British nationals' fault for thinking they "need" more than the minimum wage, to feed their multiple kids / smart phones / x boxes / overseas holidays....etc etc etc.
 
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viv1969 said:
No, It's possibly Westminster's fault that in many cases the minimum wage is one that people can't live on.
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Back to the basics now. Which party will more likely raise the minimum wage? And unless you are @ST4 :) this can be actually good for the economy by increasing the spending power.
 
daugirdas said:
Back to the basics now. Which party will more likely raise the minimum wage? And unless you are @ST4 :) this can be actually good for the economy by increasing the spending power.
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And this is where you fall down.........because the answer is none of them.
All will tell you exactly what you think you want to hear to get your vote.
They are all.....100%, no exceptions....liars :)
 
Tringa said:
This article (which is long)

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n19/james-meek/in-farageland

is well worth reading IMO. However, in it the author talks to various people one of whom said,

‘I’ve got a friend that runs a business,’ ... ‘He has about 15 or 16 Polish people working for him, because he only has to pay them £200 a week each. He doesn’t have to give them holiday pay, sick pay, annual leave or anything like that.’

‘They’re everywhere, the Polish,’ Breach said. ‘If they come over here and work for a living that’s fine, but they’re putting people out of work as well. You won’t get a harder worker than a Polish, they’ll work very hard and get paid peanuts. Who’s going to turn that away?’

Is this another side to immigrant workers?

Dave
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It just duly illustrates how misinformed and disillusioned public is. Everything in that quote is obviously an utter nonsense, but if media and political parties can make people believe that anything becomes possible, just like it did in the 30s when the going got tough a little further down south and east.
 
daugirdas said:
It just duly illustrates how misinformed and disillusioned public is. Everything in that quote is obviously an utter nonsense, but if media and political parties can make people believe that anything becomes possible, just like it did in the 30s when the going got tough a little further down south and east.
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This sort of thing does go on. My local pub was done a few years ago for employing illegal Chinese. To be fair cash in hand always has and always will go on, but people are being exploited.
 
Tringa said:
This article (which is long)

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n19/james-meek/in-farageland

is well worth reading IMO. However, in it the author talks to various people one of whom said,

‘I’ve got a friend that runs a business,’ ... ‘He has about 15 or 16 Polish people working for him, because he only has to pay them £200 a week each. He doesn’t have to give them holiday pay, sick pay, annual leave or anything like that.’

‘They’re everywhere, the Polish,’ Breach said. ‘If they come over here and work for a living that’s fine, but they’re putting people out of work as well. You won’t get a harder worker than a Polish, they’ll work very hard and get paid peanuts. Who’s going to turn that away?’

Is this another side to immigrant workers?

Dave
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Yes. It prices good honest capable British born workers out. It must stop. Now. IMHO
 
ST4 said:
Yes. It prices good honest capable British born workers out. It must stop. Now. IMHO
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It really doesn't.
 
daugirdas said:
Shall we get rid of them? Certainly, if you are Anna Firth, a potential torry candidate in the by-election. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/16/rochester-strood-byelection-tory-eu-migrants I just have one little issue with that - who would pick all that juicy fruit? Are the current benefit cheats going to do it? I'd love to hear that is the case but I just see the fruits rotting away...

Perhaps we should do away with Polish plumbers and builders, get rid of Spanish and French chefs and cull the German bankers. The whole lot. And don't forget to purge the academia too.
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Sounds like a good idea to me.

My wife picked apples when she was out of work, and she's as English as they come.

All foreign workers do is drive down earnings and loose us work, trust me I'm a mobile valeter.
 
Raptor Mike said:
Sounds like a good idea to me.

My wife picked apples when she was out of work, and she's as English as they come.

All foreign workers do is drive down earnings and loose us work, trust me I'm a mobile valeter.
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viv1969 said:
It really doesn't.
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See above. It does. A lot of casual labour jobs that could go to British workers go to EU workers from Poland as they will work longer for less. Some say that's great but it gives our own people a struggle. Why cannot these people find jobs in their own country, why do they need to come to our country?
 
ST4 said:
A lot of casual labour jobs that could go to British workers go to EU workers from Poland as they will work longer for less.
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I seem to remember a comedy series celebrating Brits doing exactly that in the 80's.
 
ST4 said:
See above. It does. A lot of casual labour jobs that could go to British workers go to EU workers from Poland as they will work longer for less. Some say that's great but it gives our own people a struggle. Why cannot these people find jobs in their own country, why do they need to come to our country?
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Talk to the fruit producers, who will always pay the the very least they can.
Talk to them...not the people from other EU countries willing to work for the peanuts on offer.

My problem comes with the many foreigners here for benefits.
 
Ian D J said:
Speaking as a fruit picker myself where I used to work in countryside tomato greenhouse for the best part of two decades, the boss found himself taking on a migrant workforce towards the end because they ended up being more reliable workers than the local population and they could stay on site in little caravans. Let's face it, I did wonder how on earth I had managed to last out that long myself since the workplace was located right out in the middle of the Kent countryside where the nearest bus stop was 2 miles away, it was costing me more to do the 23 miles daily commute using the car from my town homeplace than what I was earning (I could only afford second hand bangers).
My employment only terminated when the place folded up four years ago, I'm currently a home carer looking after an elderly mother so I was able to do away with the car.
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I thought you once said, o not mention Tomatoes. :D
 
u8myufo said:
I thought you once said, o not mention Tomatoes. :D
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That's true, you do know me all too well. However, after several months of intensive therapy and electro-shock treatment, I can now look at a tomato without the desire to strangle the nearest person.
 
Ian D J said:
I can now look at a tomato without the desire to strangle the nearest person.
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I'm guessing you don't take many holidays in "Alicante" though :D
 
Speaking as a foreign national I love it here in England. Lots of opportunities with so many moaning Brits about :p

Funnily enough it is no different in other European countries. My dad who is 74 and retired loved doing the seasonal work. He goes out and pluck fruit anytime, loves it after a lifetime of corporate jobs. But yes even there he is surrounding with foreign workers and exactly the same story. They work hard, but he also loves the friendships. Lunch time is all together, sharing food and stories and at his age he is learning Romanian.

And the other day they actually had some English decorators going door to door. Very entrepreneurial and they offered to repaint their wooden windows and doors and soffits etc. full strip down and paint job for much less than the local workforce ;)

Opportunity is what you make of it. But it won't come to you.
 
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