SX50 does 2400mm - handheld
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Hi Dave, I think you're confusing rude with blunt. I'm not being rude anywhere, at least I hope not. I think people are just surprised to see something other than 'wow, amazing shot'.
If I overstep the mark and just say something is rubbish without offering anything constructive, that would be rude, but I don't think I've done that. Delivery is everything as someone said on another post, but there is only do much beating around the bush I can do.
Regards
Jonathan
If I overstep the mark and just say something is rubbish without offering anything constructive, that would be rude, but I don't think I've done that. Delivery is everything as someone said on another post, but there is only do much beating around the bush I can do.
Regards
Jonathan
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Jonathan, you seemed to have missed the whole point of my post in the first place which was "The pic is nothing special but I am amazed at the detail that can be captured from that distance on a sensor that is just 1/4" on the longest side".
You may well consider that the detail it is less than what you expected from such a cheap camera/sensor and that is fair enough but to start comparing it with a DSLR set-up is completely off topic IMHO.
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No, you're not rude, you are very blunt though, and a little harsh....
Refreshing, to a degree....but for some it isn't about the gear or the perfect shot.
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Hi Roy, you're right, as with a dslr I wouldn't have got anything!
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What I was trying and probably failing to say in one of my first posts on this thread is that yes it's amazing that you can zoom in to such an extent, but given that the results are pretty dodgy once you do that, I'm not sure why you would want to if bird photographs are your aim? Does that sounds any more reasonable? I can see a use for identifying dots, which actually happens a lot more in birding these days, but beyond that, ie an optical aid, I don't see this ability having any practical use.
Rgds
Jonathan
Rgds
Jonathan
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I am not even sure you are familiar with the SX50 Jonathan as it does not even zoom into 2400mm - the max optical is 1200mm full frame equiv (so equal to 750mm on a 1.6 cropper like the 7D). The rest is just digital stuff and not a lot of difference to cropping yourself in processing.
I reckon it has a big practical use for anyone wanting record shots of a distant bird. Up to now most people after such shots would have used a digiscoping set-up but in my opinion using one of these is much more practical. It is also a handy walkabout for those that prefer not to use a much heavier DSLR set-up (especially if you are 70 year old
). At the end of the day this little cam cost far less than a Canon converter (I paid just £239) so it is fairly obvious that it would not even come close to a DSLR set-up, its not rocket science and no one is disputing that.
I can get far better bird shots with this little cam than I could with your gear (it is so heavy that it would be at home all the time). The best Camera is the one you have with you at the time!!!
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Curse this thread
We're just about to set off to France for 3 weeks and my wife was searching for the charger for her Panny LX5 when the conversation changed to "it would be nice get some bird shots like you do".
Like a fool I showed her this thread and an hour later was picking up an SX50 locally. She had a fiddle with it in the garden later and was very pleased with the results.
Like the majority of people using this camera she will forever be in the green zone but at least she will be alongside me when I'm lugging my heavy gear and she'll produce images that she is happy with.
Today is the last day for the cashback offer and Canon have just emailed me to say that my claim has been approved less than 24 hours after purchase.
I'm now worried she'll get binocular envy!
We're just about to set off to France for 3 weeks and my wife was searching for the charger for her Panny LX5 when the conversation changed to "it would be nice get some bird shots like you do".
Like a fool I showed her this thread and an hour later was picking up an SX50 locally. She had a fiddle with it in the garden later and was very pleased with the results.
Like the majority of people using this camera she will forever be in the green zone but at least she will be alongside me when I'm lugging my heavy gear and she'll produce images that she is happy with.
Today is the last day for the cashback offer and Canon have just emailed me to say that my claim has been approved less than 24 hours after purchase.
I'm now worried she'll get binocular envy!
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The ironic thing about all this to do with Jonathan is that on another web site that has a couple of big threads dedicated to these little 'superzooms' I am always getting into bother by pointing out that these Cam's are nowhere near as good a decent DSLR set-up.
Teaching grandmother to suck eggs comes to mind Jonathan LOL
Teaching grandmother to suck eggs comes to mind Jonathan LOL
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Not that there's any snobbishness here or anything! We need a facepalm smiley...
Are you sure? Telling someone to bin their photos because they don't cut it is pretty damned rude in my book!
We all see these things differently and work to different standards but there's nothing wrong with having a bit of common decency when giving your opinions, whatever they may be.
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You have to remember that Jonathan is comparing a sub £300 set-up with his £12,000 + set-up Paul
Yep I realise that which is why I said we all work to different standards but a bit of common decency still wouldn't go amiss.
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Lee/Rob, there are several things that an experienced DSLR shooter should know about when considering one of these little Cam's:-
1) The EVF is crap when compared to a DSLR (but adequate for finding the target).
2) Perhaps the biggest difference you will notice is the AF performance, being contrast based (unlike the phase AF on DSLR's) it can be very slow at times, especially when there is not much contrast! . It is similar to live view AF on a camera like the 7D although I fancy the SX50 AF is a bit faster.
You will also notice that the AF point is a lot bigger than a single point on a DSLR (you can select a smaller AF point but it is still very big). Although it may seem that pin point focussing must very very difficult the compensation factor is that the DOF on these little cams is far greater than on a DSLR. Even if the AF is on, say, a little branch in front of the bird it is more than likely that the bird will also be in focus.
3) Because of the much greater DOF, background blur/bokeh is not good unless the BG is a fair way away. This can be remedy in part by some selective blurring in processing.
4) Being a sloooow f6.5 at the long end of the zoom the Camera is obviously not good for low light stuff. With so many pixels crammed onto the tiny sensor it is obvious that noise can be a problem - I limit my ISO to 400 but mostly shoot at less than that. Having said that the ISO settings it returns in auto ISO is rarely more than ISO 200 in fair light.
5) When not shooting in RAW (eg when you want to use a digital converter to take you over 1200mm) there is a superfine jpeg setting that is buried deep in the menu system so not easy to find.
6) I find holding this little cam steady to be difficult due to the small size, I cannot tuck my elbows into my body without being cramped-up. To this end I sometimes shoot in Tv mode and dialing-in 1/500 sec (I use auto ISO set to a max of ISO 400 when using this). Coupled with the 4.5 stop IS system this is adequate for shooting at extreme focal lengths.
7) The images will not stand the amount of cropping that you could get away with on a decent DSLR set-up.
8) because of the extreme focal lengths (full frame equiv) it is not always easy to find the target - to this end there is an handily placed button that will auto zoom out when depressed and as soon as you stop pressing it will go out to the selected zoom.
9) Obvious but I will say it anyway but the Camera is next to useless for Birds in flight IMHO. Do not be seduced by the 10 fps shooting rate as this is only obtainable in a near auto mode and the burst takes the AF from the first frame only - it can help you to get lucky though. The normal burst rate (with AF) is mega slow unless you use a very low quality jpeg setting, even then it is slow compared to a DSLR. Shooting in RAW I do not even bother shooting in anything except single shot mode.
I think that's about all I can think of apart from the obvious fact that you cannot expect this little cheap cam to be up to a decent DSLR set-up.
After shooting with a DSLR and some decent lenses for several years I think for the price and weight it is a remarkable little cam.
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I would be extremely pleased with those shots if I could get them, well done on them, I am amazed what it can do, I suspect it would cost a couple of grand in a DSLR lens to get anything near that kind of range, image quality looks fine to me, for the price I bet there is nothing that comes close in DSLR land.
I was thinking of getting a budget tele for some birds at some point, I have not seen lens in my price range that can do this, so one of these is defiantly a viable option.
I was thinking of getting a budget tele for some birds at some point, I have not seen lens in my price range that can do this, so one of these is defiantly a viable option.
It does show how technology is moving in the right direction. Im sure we will see more and better qaulity cameras at this end of the scale. For the price its a great way to enter the wildlife field.
Coming from a didgisoping background, i look at todays kit with envy, making do with a Nikon Coolpix 4300 + inner bog roll as my starting kit i now see photos of quality being shown.
I would probably use this camera well below the extreme zoom, as i have some fieldcraft skills, but of course there are times when subjects remain out of normal reach.
I do wonder if those who have spent large on top kit might be a bit peeved that this type of camera can now provide better chances for those on a low budget the chance to grab a photo previously denied to them.
Photography is a broad church, not everyonye wants crystal clear bird on a stick photos, and as stated the weight is an issue with some of us.
I think the images Roy has put up are very good, ive seen plenty from top DSLR `s that are not that great, its subjective, anything that allows more of us to enjoy the hobby is good in my book.
And hopefully we get better with encouragement and experience, could the end of the DSLR be in sight.
Coming from a didgisoping background, i look at todays kit with envy, making do with a Nikon Coolpix 4300 + inner bog roll as my starting kit i now see photos of quality being shown.
I would probably use this camera well below the extreme zoom, as i have some fieldcraft skills, but of course there are times when subjects remain out of normal reach.
I do wonder if those who have spent large on top kit might be a bit peeved that this type of camera can now provide better chances for those on a low budget the chance to grab a photo previously denied to them.
Photography is a broad church, not everyonye wants crystal clear bird on a stick photos, and as stated the weight is an issue with some of us.
I think the images Roy has put up are very good, ive seen plenty from top DSLR `s that are not that great, its subjective, anything that allows more of us to enjoy the hobby is good in my book.
And hopefully we get better with encouragement and experience, could the end of the DSLR be in sight.
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Thanks for the info, I'll give it some serious thought later in the year
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Roy, thank you for the write up and detailed explanation.
In my case I take 2 cameras out with me every time I go out...a 7D and 400mm f5.6 for bird stuff, as well as the 1D mkiii with 70-200mm f2.8 and 1.4X converter for voles/wildlife.... there are times where I just cannot get up and traipse around after something I've seen in the distance, nor can I afford to upgrade to longer lenses...for me it isn't all about detail, so, having a camera such as you have been using would allow me to at least make record shots, that to me would be the benefit of the SX 50....
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I do think there is an element of truth in this sometimes Brian, especially for those that do not know how to get the best of out their gear. It is only natural that folks will defend their own gear if only to justify the purchase,
but there are too many would be bird photographers who think that all they have to do is buy the very best gear and they are assured of success - it ain't like it!!!
Only a few days ago I was reading a thread about a certain lens on another site and one fanboy put up a pic to demonstrate just how good the lens was and the bird was completely 'blown' in several places :shrug: Still I guess if he thought it was OK then that's fair enough but it hardly did anything to promote his cause.
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BTW folks all my shots thus far with the SX50 have been extreme ‘focal’ lengths snaps from distance when out on walkabouts so all are using digital zoom and shot in jpeg.
In case you are interested in what the camera capable of when shooting up to 1200mm reach in RAW HERE are some links to shots taken by a very capable photographer.I know IQ is subjective but IMHO they put a lot of DSLR shooters work to shame, even some with £10k + worth of gear. The samples are in post #1
I think that Kenn's shots prove that the little cam is capable of more than just record shots in the right hands!
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=254479
In case you are interested in what the camera capable of when shooting up to 1200mm reach in RAW HERE are some links to shots taken by a very capable photographer.I know IQ is subjective but IMHO they put a lot of DSLR shooters work to shame, even some with £10k + worth of gear. The samples are in post #1
I think that Kenn's shots prove that the little cam is capable of more than just record shots in the right hands!
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=254479
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Some excellent images there showing what could be achieved
Talking of weight bumped into George today
respect to the man Did you have an SX40 or did I just dream that?
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I'm surprised you took the bait at your age Roy
Anyone with half a brain can work out the £'s verses image quality comparison, the camera isn't aimed at "wannabe pro's" but some people will not be able to work that one out.
My Mrs is loving her's and is having "FUN" & "ENJOYMENT" using it, when she puts it down i will have a go myself
D
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I'm surprised you took the bait at your age Roy
Anyone with half a brain can work out the £'s verses image quality comparison, the camera isn't aimed at "wannabe pro's" but some people will not be able to work that one out.
My Mrs is loving her's and is having "FUN" & "ENJOYMENT" using it, when she puts it down i will have a go myself
+1
Perfectly put.
I think these images taken with the SX50 are great, but should say that I am no birder, nor am I a gear-snob. I own some (IMHO) pretty decent DSLR kit, but some of my favourite pics were taken on my mobile because it's what I had on me at the time.
I decided to get an MFT kit to "take everywhere" instead of my DSLR. Didn't work, collection got just as bad as SLR kit. Now bought a Fuji X10, and while it's of no use for birds, it has got me some of the pics I'm most happy with, and it's properly put the fun back into photography for me.
Who said "it's not about the camera..."?
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Very good write up for those wondering what direction to go in.
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Alby, with the DSLR I shoot exclusively in RAW as I do with the SX50 when just using the optical reach BUT for all the shots on here RAW is not an option because I was shooting with the built-in digital converter.
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Yes, I used to shoot raw with my dslr but not used raw with this one yet as I've only used it a couple of times. Very impressive though for such a tiny sensor.
