So, after 433 posts, you post a pic with no words explaining why you took it and what it means to you whatsoever and ask is it art or record? Did you read the posts above about the war photographs and words and interpretation? I think it's record anyway, a good shot and a good photo but a record of someone else's art? I like the mirrors too!
So, after 433 posts, you post a pic with no words explaining why you took it and what it means to you whatsoever and ask is it art or record? Did you read the posts above about the war photographs and words and interpretation? I think it's record anyway, a good shot and a good photo but a record of someone else's art? I like the mirrors too!
I also gave myself another challenge, which is something I grew up next door to: I've been trying to figure out, is there any way I can photograph Niagara Falls without making it a cliché? And I haven't done it yet. Andreas Gursky shot the Maid of the Mist and it was very postcard-y -- but I think he meant it to refer to the postcard tradition.
All of my work now shall now be known as referring to the postcard tradition.
All of my work now shall now be known as referring to the postcard tradition.
This Gursky sold for $181,000 (estimate was $350,000 to $450,000):
http://www.spruethmagers.com/bilder/works/gursky_00162.jpg
Description: “Niagara Falls” (1989) captures a boat, endlessly drifting towards the disastrous precipice of water, tourists happily adrift in a vast expanse of nature.
All of my work now shall now be known as referring to the postcard tradition.
But if you have travelled and know about the Maid of the Mist tourist boat rides, thats exactly what they do, take the boats very close to the waterfall and into the mist.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g154998-i1634740-Niagara_Falls_Ontario.html
What's your issue with this?
The full interview said:
Twilley: I want to end with a question about where the water project is going next, and, in particular, whether there’s any aspect of water that is proving particularly tricky to capture or perhaps more productive than you originally expected?
Burtynsky: Probably the trickiest bit right now is source: where water comes from. It’s so riddled with clichés. That’s actually where I might end up using film, because it might be able to carry the cliché better than still photographs.
I also gave myself another challenge, which is something I grew up next door to: I’ve been trying to figure out, is there any way I can photograph Niagara Falls without making it a cliché? And I haven’t done it yet. Andreas Gursky shot the Maid of the Mist and it was very postcard-y—but I think he meant it to refer to the postcard tradition. I’m working on it, and I’m trying to figure it out, but it’s hard. I keep looking at Niagara Falls, thinking, “Great. Now what?”
So he was actually commenting on photographing the falls and fitting it into his style, his water project. As he's known for enviromental style images, how do you think a tourist boat into the mist would fit that sort or portfolio?
http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/site_contents/Photographs/Water.html
Description and images look very good.
From what I've read, his gallery staff do enough "window dressing" of his work already...'Peter Lik isn't doing postcard work he's referring to the postcard tradition'. I mean with spin like that you can window dress anything.
Oh and I'm still waiting on the link to the curators piece you mentioned
I was reading a piece by a curator in San Francisco who said they were inundated with people doing what you're doing. Copying Gursky, Burtnysky, (Sherman and Barbara Cole too) and their narrative. It seemed he was hoping to see a rock, a tree or a milky stream just to break the sheer monotony,
It was some guy writing on apug or a big film forum in 2012 as a curator of an auction in San Francisco or Toronto I forget which one. Again you miss the point entirely as the point was these type of images and agendas are held in great esteem by the establishment and that means other artists are copying their style and political agendas to be accepted and he was saying how many of these images he saw. I don't think Pookeyhead can be too environmentally conscious tearing around in a Mustang GT that must get about 20mpg. It's a bit like George Osborne telling us we are all in it together.
From what I've read, his gallery staff do enough "window dressing" of his work already...
Yeah thanks Captain Obvious but the tourist boat at Niagara Falls wasn't the point. The point was here was a 'postcard-y' shot that sold for big money that supposedly wasn't really a postcard but 'referring to the post card tradition' and therefore is art. Why not say, 'Peter Lik isn't doing postcard work he's referring to the postcard tradition'. I mean with spin like that you can window dress anything.
People like that sort of work on their walls, fair enough. I'd sell all those pictures too if I could take them and print them to that size and quality. Not many people want depressing slag heaps that only supposedly make sense if you ram some political agenda down their throat or show them a long series. Even Burtynsky tried to give a picture to the men at the quarry and they said why would we want that? All it did was remind them there was no more stone left and they would have to move on. It depressed them, they didn't want to look at it.
All it did was remind them there was no more stone left and they would have to move on. It depressed them, they didn't want to look at it.
...the point was these type of images and agendas are held in great esteem by the establishment and that means other artists are copying their style and political agendas to be accepted and he was saying how many of these images he saw.
So they didn't value his work. More fool them perhaps?
Ah from the same interview you quoted earlier:
I actually have a funny story about this. After spending about six years and two shows on the Rock of Ages quarries in Vermont, I wanted to do a trade with them: a print for some granite slabs to make countertops in my country house up North. I met with them and I brought ten of my favorite pictures of their quarries. Most of them were of abandoned sections of the quarries. So I rolled them all out—and they were big, 40-by-50-inch prints—and the whole board was there. And they were totally silent.
After this uncomfortable, pregnant pause, I said, “So… what do you guys think?” Someone—I think it was the director of the quarry—finally said, “Why would anybody want one of these?” [laughter]
I’d never really had it put to me in that way! I said something like, “Well, because they’re interesting pictures and they talk about our taking of a resource from the land. It’s about that accumulated taking—the residual evidence of that taking—and then nature bouncing back into that void. You can see it struggling back into that space.”
And he replied, “These just aren’t very interesting for us.” Well, actually, he said, “These are a sorry sight for us, because these are places where we can’t get any more stone out of the ground, and we have to go somewhere else. They’re the end of the line for us. We wouldn’t want to have to be reminded of that everyday.”
I asked whether that meant the deal was off, and they said, “Oh, no, you can go photograph the latest thing we’ve found with all the machines still working on it.” And I did. It never entered my oeuvre, but I photographed it and I got the countertops.
I work sometimes for a client that does quarrying. They have large images all over the place of their work in progress, usually on a blue sky day, big clean yellow trucks.
What work? LOL
So, in a nutshell, some think it's all pretentious b*****ks, some think some of it is pretentious b*****ks and some think none of it is pretentious b*****ks.
Few, if any, are likely to change their stance.
What on earth is the point of arguing about it?
Welcome to the internet.
Aah, gotcha.
So I'm free to use this forum to insult, demean and ridicule any genre of photography I choose.
How liberating.
Don't think I've seen anyone saying NONE of it is pretentious b*****ks.So, in a nutshell, some think it's all pretentious b*****ks, some think some of it is pretentious b*****ks and some think none of it is pretentious b*****ks.
Few, if any, are likely to change their stance.
What on earth is the point of arguing about it?
So, in a nutshell, some think it's all pretentious b*****ks, some think some of it is pretentious b*****ks and some think none of it is pretentious b*****ks.
Few, if any, are likely to change their stance.
What on earth is the point of arguing about it?
The most pertinent point is he's never had it put it to him that way. No wonder if he is immersed in this world of chin stroking art b*****ks sycophants and their current political agenda. Quarrymen looked at it, a Burtynsky, and said 'no thanks' but you think oh what fools. A curator or collector would have been foaming at the mouth too no doubt. It's a nice story to illustrate how these images are perceived when you strip away the pretension.
Some truly awesome photographs in "Water". Thanks for posting the link. The feature film I mentioned is "Watermarks" . (It's available on Lovefilm.).
Presumably mostly taken from a helicopter, though. Coming from a photographer with an environmental message - does the end justify the means?
So, in a nutshell, some think it's all pretentious b*****ks, some think some of it is pretentious b*****ks and some think none of it is pretentious b*****ks.
Few, if any, are likely to change their stance.
What on earth is the point of arguing about it?
I was looking at some of David Maisel's aerial photography who does explores the same sort of themes and shoots from a Cessna(?). I've seen Burtynsky use a helicopter, fixed wing plane and a $50k Hasselblad on what looks like an expensive radio controlled helicopter. Not got any beef with his environmental credentials there as he can't really get the shot any other way.
But as I said to you, I know of quarry people with similar works all over their offices.
So it's a nice story how some, like yourself, thinks some images or art is pretentious. Perhaps being businessmen they didn't want to be reminded of the damage because of poor PR, but instead wanted images of the result after the land was relandscaped.
Burtynsky: I'd never really had it put to me in that way! I said something like, "Well, because they're interesting pictures and they talk about our taking of a resource from the land. It's about that accumulated taking -- the residual evidence of that taking -- and then nature bouncing back into that void. You can see it struggling back into that space."
Man in quarry: "These just aren't very interesting for us." Well, actually, he said, "These are a sorry sight for us, because these are places where we can't get any more stone out of the ground, and we have to go somewhere else. They're the end of the line for us. We wouldn't want to have to be reminded of that everyday."
The pretension was shot down:
So what do you see as the difference between Burtynsky's work and say Maisel's Black Maps?
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...d-maisels-aerial-photographs-43093531/?no-ist
How about compared to Mishka Henna Oilfields and feedlots?
And you've seen Burtynsky work? Nice.
Each one is like a Rorschach test, in that the subject is, to some extent, what viewers make it to be. Blood vessels. Polished marble. Stained-glass windows. What is it that you see?
I see the work as being a bit like a Rorschach test.
But so what? Cliche'd or not, who cares if it is. So they both referred to the same test and that makes it cliche'd? Come on....really? You ignore overall salient points, run off, grab a quote from an online article/interview/whatever and treat it as making your point. One swallow doesnt make a summer. Doubtless you'll find millions of articles decrying any art, photographic or not. Plenty about music, films, paintings etc etc. You have to see that its down to taste, personality, mindset, upbringing, life events and anything else that effects each individual's thoughts and feelings. I have plenty of albums I love that are critically hated for whatever reason, doesn't make me like them any the less.From the article you posted:
From the Burtynsky interview:
I wonder how many times that cliche is used?
Any landscape shot I did take or will take from now on will be me 'referring to the postcard tradition'. Damn it feels good to be a real artist.
Now that your a real artist how about sharing your images with us? I feel we can then all learn where we are going wrong!