Yashica teasing a new (film) camera?

So far, I've been unable to find any images showing the inside/rearside of the digifilm cartridges.
I'm curious as to how they work. NFC chip? DX CAS type labelling?
Will the possibility exist for folks to hack these things to perform outside their four available presets?
 
Tori_T said:
So far, I've been unable to find any images showing the inside/rearside of the digifilm cartridges.
I'm curious as to how they work. NFC chip? DX CAS type labelling?
Will the possibility exist for folks to hack these things to perform outside their four available presets?
Click to expand...

I think that's because they haven't physically been built yet. There is a new video on their KS Campaign showing someone loading the batteries/Digifilm cartridge but still not specifics about it.

I'm also really confused now because the original campaign said (and still does) that you can choose the shutter speed from 1 of 5 options, and I would assume that the camera selects the aperture. Strangely, they've now added a stretch goal change to an F2.0 aperture but at the same time completely changed the camera to shoot aperture priority only now with the option to set some exposure compensation?

"After working hard with our team for over 30 hours, we found a solution to upgrade the aperture from f2.8 to f2.0. This is a milestone of the upgrade since we need to fix several difficulties of the exposure. With the upgrade of the aperture, we stay at the "aperture priority shooting mode" from electro 35. The shutter speed will be calculated by the Y35 automatically. But be calm, we will add a 5-step exposure control from -2 / -1 / 0 / +1 / +2and a 1-second exposure mode for you to create your stylish and unique photography. Your contribution is really important in this milestone."
 
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that all we're seeing at the moment are rendered CAD images, and non-functional movie props; the loading video shows the lack of electrical contacts in the battery compartment, and the lack of any sort of latching mechanism on the camera back.
 
I do hate when people come to Kickstarter with basic idea sell it as a product that just needs some money to launch then spend others folks money on their vanity project/fools errand then go bust before they can actually produce something.
 
gunnar said:
kickstarter's rules prohibit launching campaigns based on design only. A working prototype must be available.

photorealistic renders are explicitly prohibited

https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes
Click to expand...

Strange that the campaign timeline even states that they won't have a prototype ready until December?

I've just seen this video linked from the comments in the Campaign which kid of rips apart the proposed spec for the camera!

 
c8473551fdd4a531c790b414e25a4eff_original.jpg


Looking at the timeline, I guess their Alpha Prototype (I assume a non-working mule?) meats the Kickstarter requirements?
 
From the looks of it, the new owners of the Yashica name got that and only that; no designers, no engineers, no knowledge base, no production facilities.
They seem to have started from first principles, and a copy of "Camera Building for Beginners". :(

A 1/3.2" sensor @ 1600 ISO? That's not going to look good.
They could've ditched the AA's and made the digifilm cart double as a Li-ion battery.
Also move the SD card over to the right, and use the freed up battery/SD space to fit a 4/3 or APS-C sensor; we know a rangefinder body/lens can deal with full frame, but a sensor is thicker than film and would need to be smaller/closer to the lens.

The idea had novelty and potential, but from what I'm seeing so far, it's going to be a "Let's Pretend" toy for rich Instagram users.
 
stevelmx5 said:
I've just seen this video linked from the comments in the Campaign which kid of rips apart the proposed spec for the camera!

Click to expand...

He's missing something - a fixed aperture around f2.8 is not unusual for cellphone cameras, and they manage to produce correct exposures in bright light. They do it by activating the pixel wells for a given amount of time, in effect using a purely electronic shutter. (Cellphone cameras don't have physical shutters.) If the Yashica is to work with the given spec, then it would need a sensor-based shutter that activates while the (presumably) mechanical one is open. In other words, at least in cases where there is too much light for the specified shutter speeds, the camera would have to override with faster speeds at the sensor. For duller conditions, setting the dial may well control how long the pixel wells are on for.

Alternatively, it could have a built in ND filter that makes bright light doable, but that could introduce constraints in low light, even with 1600 ISO. For example, with the 200 ISO cartridge thing and 1/500, you could have an ND filter that gives an effective f11, but 1/30 at f11 with 1600 ISO will struggle in some low light situations (while 1/30 at f2.8 might be fine).

A hipster toy seems about right to me - a camera for people who want to be film stylee trendy-retro, but can't be bothered with using actual film.

Before the reveal, I was hoping for something between the Fuji X100 and digital Leica M - the Fuji's form factor with the M's manual simplicity. Something with an APS-C sensor, fixed lens with actual rangefinder manual focus, manual shutter and aperture, a built in meter, and various film emulations. Basically, a digital version of cameras like the Olympus 35RC or Ricoh 500G.
 
Nomad Z said:
Alternatively, it could have a built in ND filter that makes bright light doable, but that could introduce constraints in low light, even with 1600 ISO. For example, with the 200 ISO cartridge thing and 1/500, you could have an ND filter that gives an effective f11, but 1/30 at f11 with 1600 ISO will struggle in some low light situations (while 1/30 at f2.8 might be fine).
Click to expand...
Internal switchable filters which move in/out of the light path depending on mode (or conditions) would be a solution. Sony was doing that in 2000.
 
Parallax via the viewfinder should be interesting. I am guessing f2.8 isn't fixed but min aperture on the fixed focal length lens, which incidentally could be removable but not mentioned. I am guessing they could have a screen on the back to show the taken image and that might be added following field trials.
Remember this is phase 1of it's development regardless of what their blurb says.
Could turn out quite interesting, although I would have preferred a hybrid film/Digi camera.
Matt
 
MatBin said:
Parallax via the viewfinder should be interesting. I am guessing f2.8 isn't fixed but min aperture on the fixed focal length lens, which incidentally could be removable but not mentioned. I am guessing they could have a screen on the back to show the taken image and that might be added following field trials.
Remember this is phase 1of it's development regardless of what their blurb says.
Could turn out quite interesting, although I would have preferred a hybrid film/Digi camera.
Matt
Click to expand...

I think we’re over thinking it and the holding company that own the brand (not a photography company) were/are planning on using a mobile phone sensor/lens behind a fake plastic lens body so they could market on it looking like a proper Yashica rangefinder.

I don’t think they’ll add a screen as the marketing is based around the analogue experience and waiting to see your images when you get home. With regards to the viewfinder, the video I shared above annoyed me a bit because he was calling the Y35 a rangefinder when it’s more likely a basic plastic fixed viewfinder like most compact P&S cameras.
 
Tori_T said:
The idea had novelty and potential, but from what I'm seeing so far, it's going to be a "Let's Pretend" toy for rich Instagram users.
Click to expand...
Surely for *poor* Instagram users... rich Instagram users have Leica
:exit:
 
Oh dear, reviews from buyers are not too good...

https://petapixel.com/2018/10/18/yashicas-unexpected-y35-digifilm-camera-is-unexpectedly-bad/

  • The camera turns off when the shutter is pressed
  • The camera doesn’t even turn on
  • The camera is plastic and cheaply made
  • Camera parts are breaking and falling off
  • Fake buttons molded into the plastic just for looks
  • The camera is hard to hold while pressing the shutter
  • Many backers have yet to receive their cameras and haven’t had any updates on the status
  • Awful image quality comparable to cheap toy cameras for kids
  • Incorrect labeling on the fake film rolls, resulting in mismatched photo styles
  • Black-and-white photos coming out blue
  • An unreliable shutter button that doesn’t always trigger a photo when pressed
  • The shutter takes photos on the way up instead of when its fully pressed down
  • A shutter button so stiff that it’s unusable
  • The winding lever gets jammed and needs to be manually pushed back
  • Stickers on the camera have bubbles and are defective
  • Photos can’t be found after they’re captured
  • Difficulty inserting digiFilm rolls into the camera
  • Removing the lens cover caused the lens to separate from the camera body
  • An included cable that isn’t compatible with the camera
  • Photos are out of focus and distorted
 
Sadly, it appears to be a cheap plastic toy camera with mid-00's mobile phone quality results. Pretty much how it looked in the campaign, but it's sad to see such a successful campaign fail to deliver.

In the same vein, I see the company behind the Meyer Optik Gorlitz (and numerous other brand re-launches) has also gone bankrupt after a very successful first campaign;

https://petapixel.com/2018/08/21/how-meyer-optik-gorlitz-won-at-kickstarter-but-failed-at-life/

Looks like they were using each campaign to fund the delivery of the previous ones' rewards which sounds like a slippery slope.
 
FishyFish said:
Oh dear, reviews from buyers are not too good...

https://petapixel.com/2018/10/18/yashicas-unexpected-y35-digifilm-camera-is-unexpectedly-bad/

  • The camera turns off when the shutter is pressed
  • The camera doesn’t even turn on
  • The camera is plastic and cheaply made
  • Camera parts are breaking and falling off
  • Fake buttons molded into the plastic just for looks
  • The camera is hard to hold while pressing the shutter
  • Many backers have yet to receive their cameras and haven’t had any updates on the status
  • Awful image quality comparable to cheap toy cameras for kids
  • Incorrect labeling on the fake film rolls, resulting in mismatched photo styles
  • Black-and-white photos coming out blue
  • An unreliable shutter button that doesn’t always trigger a photo when pressed
  • The shutter takes photos on the way up instead of when its fully pressed down
  • A shutter button so stiff that it’s unusable
  • The winding lever gets jammed and needs to be manually pushed back
  • Stickers on the camera have bubbles and are defective
  • Photos can’t be found after they’re captured
  • Difficulty inserting digiFilm rolls into the camera
  • Removing the lens cover caused the lens to separate from the camera body
  • An included cable that isn’t compatible with the camera
  • Photos are out of focus and distorted
Click to expand...

You'd think they would fully test the prototype before sending cameras out :rolleyes:
 
Man backs awful looking plastic webcam moulded in the shape of a Yashica 35mm rangefinder, throughout campaign many people (those that could read and were able to look at pictures) stated that the camera was awful and would be a plastic toy webcam. Man then receives said awful camera and records video, telling everyone it's awful...I guess he missed the memo.

Obviously, as someone who is in the middle of delivering my own KS reward cameras I wouldn't want to point the finger unfairly when my own early cameras haven't been perfect (but have been addressed). However, I think it's fair to say that the writing was on the wall with this effort of a camera from day one, yet so many people went along with the ridiculous marketing and ignored actual evidence. It's sad to see people being taken advantage of through Kickstarter and I just hope that it doesn't put people off backing genuine new products in the future. Without crowdfunding, there's no way I could have got Chroma up and running so I'm very grateful for it. Hopefully those people who backed the Y35, and its' awful insipid green "black & white" mode :confused:, won't be put off supporting genuine projects in the future.
 
I'm now very weary about kickstarter after the horror stories and my own lack of due dillegence after I backed the second generation of my pebble smart watch and the company folded shortly after delivering leaving backers with no warranty.

I had no qualms (beyond not needing a new LF camera) backing Steve's chroma I was very confident he'd deliver (plus I know where he lives :D). The pixilator is not filling me with renewed confidence on the other hand.
 
Retune said:
Looks like 95% of the budget went into the promo videos. This purchaser isn't terribly pleased:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvgDtEOzdVU

'...it’s no longer rangefinder. It’s ragefinder.'
Click to expand...


That video has some great quotes for their marketing.

“It’s just complete s***”

“We were excited but we’re not now”

“Don’t buy this s***”

“It’s s***. Like S.H.I.T. s***”

“I’ve used it for twenty minutes and it’s already broke”

:D

On a serious note, and as Steve points out, it’s disappointing both that they didn’t take the opportunity to try and produce something worthy of the Yashica brand, but also that the backers have been stung with a hugely substandard product.
 
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