£1500-£1800 to spend, what would you recommend?

viper_biker

viper_biker

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Gareth
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I have recently came into some money and want to 'up my game' so to speak. Currently I have a Pentax K100D Super with the kit 18/55 lens and a Tamron 70/300. Most of my pitures are taken track-side at motorbike racing and I'm happy with the shots I'm taking. I know they are nowhere near as good as a lot of folk on here, but it keeps me happy and entertained.

I don't post often on here, but tend more to read as I don't think I can offer much in the way of advice to anyone. I have a good friend who works in LCE and he has recommended a D300, Nikon 18-70mm AF-S ED and Sigma 135-400 APO. Is there any other camera worth looking at as well as this one, or is this the way forward? The bigger lens is a must as some areas of the tracks are that far away from the action that it'll be needed, and the convienience of the 18/70 will be good for family funtions and walking about the paddock.

All of my pictures are for personal use only, and I've no interest in getting any of them published, it's just for fun as I can no longer be on the track myself after a recent injury on the track. So I'd like to put it to you all and see what you can come up with for me. Up to £1800 to spend on a body and minimum of 2 lenses. Thank you all in advance and I'll let you all know what I go for in the end.
 
Here's a completely Biased reply :D.

I love the D300 and really want one. Seems to be a very capable camera.

Have a look at this thread CLICKY, might help you decide if you should consider the D300 or something else.

I know what I'd buy, but like I said, I'm very biased on this :D
 
You might be better looking at a 2nd hand D80 and getting a Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 lens as the Sigma 135-400 is a pretty slow lens.
 
If you like the D300 then you should be able to get one plus a Nikon 300mm f/4 for around £1700. If you can stretch the budget a little more an MB-D10 battery grip would balance the setup nicely and give you 8fps
 
There's various software out there that will tell you what sort of focal lengths you use the most.

Depending on the results of that, I'd go with a:
D300 with second hand 70-200 f/2.8 VR (just about doable)
or
D300 with your most used short focal length in a prime lens + a new high quality zoom for the Pentax.
or
D300 with a long Sigma zoom and high quality prime for the Pentax.

The Pentax with the 18-55 will do for parties and social stuff at the moment.

Be sure to take the various crop factors into account between Pentax and Nikon when choosing lenses.
 
Here's my option for you...

Wait a few weeks, and get yourself a new Nikon D90 + 18-105VR lens kit. They appear to be coming in at £800-£850. That will give you ~£1000 for a long lens for the track as well. If you can find a Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 second hand, go for it, or buy a Sigma 100-300mm f/4 new. And a decent monopod! A zoom will give you more flexibility than a 300mm f/4 prime lens
 
Flash In The Pan said:
True, but Nikon quality will win over Sigma every time, especially when the prices are more or less the same.
Click to expand...

You need to come play with my 100-300mm f/4 :) Nikon have nothing comparable. Yes, a Nikkor 300mm f/4 prime is the dogs danglies, but having the flexibility of the zoom is more important to me, especially for what I like shooting... I think the 100-300mm is a fantastic lens, especially for the price.

In the end, ask 100 different people, you'll get 100 different opinions :)


And back to viper biker's predicament:) You have a K100D - Why not upgrade to a K20D body, and add a Sigma 100-300mm f/4 lens. It's just another option!
 
reddeathdrinker said:
You need to come play with my 100-300mm f/4 :) Nikon have nothing comparable. Yes, a Nikkor 300mm f/4 prime is the dogs danglies, but having the flexibility of the zoom is more important to me, especially for what I like shooting... I think the 100-300mm is a fantastic lens, especially for the price.

In the end, ask 100 different people, you'll get 100 different opinions :)
Click to expand...

There is a zoom facility available with the Nikon too- your feet :LOL:
 
Pentax do some fantastic prime lenses. I think some really good glass will serve you better than a new body/brand. Tamron do a 70-200MM F2.8 in a Pentax mount too.
 
Steep said:
Pentax do some fantastic prime lenses. I think some really good glass will serve you better than a new body/brand. Tamron do a 70-200MM F2.8 in a Pentax mount too.
Click to expand...
I agree totally. I don't see anything that suggests you need a different body, let alone switch brand. Spend the money on better lenses and ignore all the Nikon fanboys.
 
DON'T get a D80, the metering is pants compared to a D200 or D300, if you get one of those, and the 18-70mm normal zoom (I have one, Its amongst the sharpest lenses i've ever come across.) then its just a case of finding the long lens.

I keep recommending them but Grey's of westminster, have fabulous reconditioned gear in their 2nd hand dept. you'll get more bang for your buck (or glass for your gold???) there than buying new Example:

Nikon D2x £859.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
28-70mm f/3.5-4.5D AF Zoom-Nikkor £85.00
Total £1739.00

or

Nikon D2H £575.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
New - AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G DX IF-ED £185.00
New - Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8D £89.00
Total: £1644.00
 
TheKrikkitWars said:
DON'T get a D80, the metering is pants compared to a D200 or D300, if you get one of those, and the 18-70mm normal zoom (I have one, Its amongst the sharpest lenses i've ever come across.) then its just a case of finding the long lens.

I keep recommending them but Grey's of westminster, have fabulous reconditioned gear in their 2nd hand dept. you'll get more bang for your buck (or glass for your gold???) there than buying new Example:

Nikon D2x £859.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
28-70mm f/3.5-4.5D AF Zoom-Nikkor £85.00
Total £1739.00

or

Nikon D2H £575.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
New - AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G DX IF-ED £185.00
New - Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8D £89.00
Total: £1644.00
Click to expand...

good recomedations there, although The D300 Blows the D2 away, so rather than £859 on a s/h D2x.

I would go :

D300 £950
18-70 f/3.5-4.5 £179
80-400 f/4.5-5.6 VR £795

Total : £1924 a little over budget, but the D300 is leaps ahead of the D2 / D200
 
oh and the comment about the D80 is so true, i always had to adjust the comp on mine to get it right
 
I would think 80-400mm is gonna be a bit slow for motor bike racing especially in poor light with it being 5.6 at the long end and you only get 4.5 for focusing, i have a 70-300VR which is a great lens in good light but on an overcast day you have to wind the iso up to get the shutter speeds required to hand hold. The OP may be better posting a 'Which lens for motor sport' thread as they may get some feedback from some of the excellent sport togs on TP
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
I would think 80-400mm is gonna be a bit slow for motor bike racing especially in poor light with it being 5.6 at the long end and you only get 4.5 for focusing, i have a 70-300VR which is a great lens in good light but on an overcast day you have to wind the iso up to get the shutter speeds required to hand hold. The OP may be better posting a 'Which lens for motor sport' thread as they may get some feedback from some of the excellent sport togs on TP
Click to expand...

It is a VR, and you won't get faster than that at 400mm.

I think that the reccomended D300's native 200-6400 ISO and reputation for low noise levels should let him achieve the desired results.
 
If you wanted to upgrade the camera you could go for a K20D, that will leave you a good £1000 to spend on lenses.
 
TheKrikkitWars said:
It is a VR, and you won't get faster than that at 400mm.

I think that the reccomended D300's native 200-6400 ISO and reputation for low noise levels should let him achieve the desired results.
Click to expand...

Still wont help focusing or the brightness of the image in the view finder - As a D300 user and Nikon VR user high ISO settings are no substitute for a fast lens imho if you can afford the faster lens , a kind togg let me have a go with a D300 with a sigma 120-300mm F2.8 attached shooting surfers at fistral beach - the difference was very noticeable, and with a 1.4 converter it will still be faster at 400mm.
 
Here's a list of prices:

K20D body £649

Pentax 16-50mm f/2.8 £449

Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 £299

Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 £279

Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 £289

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 £319

Sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 £239

Pentax 50-135mm f/2.8 £479

Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 £469 when available

Sigma 100-300mm f/4 £759

Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 £500+ when available

Tamron 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 £330

AF540FGZ flash £279 (Samsung equivalent may be cheaper)

Metz 54 MZ-4 flash £299

Sunpak Auto 444D or similar bounce/swivel flash £40 max 2nd-hand

I would stick with Pentax, but hang-fire on the body. Lens prices may rise a bit but body prices drop or their value for money increases.

For a walkabout and party lens the Tamron 24-135mm gets my vote (£125+ 2nd-hand, when you see one), but you'll need a flash for interior use. The Pentax 50-135mm would be better for low light and shallow DOF, but too long at the short end for group shots. Even 28mm is a bit long, yet 16-18mm is too short unless you want full-body close range pap-style portraits. Anyway, you've got several choices to shake a stick at and bridge the gap to 100mm+.

I'd recommend you get a bounce/swivel flash: you can save a packet if you get an old Sunpak. Make sure you see a photo of the back and that it has the manual settings: they go down to 1/16th of full power. There are several they made that are suitable, but they need a bit of "suck it and see" to get the right exposure.

In view of you injury, you may want a tripod or monopod.

Keep a bit of cash in reserve (SD cards?) and keep an eye on K20D prices and the announcement of its successor. Your current camera is worth more to you as a backup and to spare its replacement from the rain (although the K20D is weather-sealed) and the jostles of parties.
 
I guess my main reason for switching body is for the 12 m/p images plus the help and support I've been looking for on the net hasn't been the greatest. As for my Pentax, it's a great camera, but the 2 lenses I have are the kit one and a cheap 70-300 lens.

I look at Canon and Nikon as the 2 main competitors. My K100D as a comparison still used 4 AA rechargable batteries, weighs nearly twice as much as my friends Nikon D40 and a Canon 40D and isn't as user friendly as the other DSL-R's I've seen and used.

As for the comment on the Sigma 135-400 APO, is it maybe better to go for something different then that'll cope well at track-side shooting?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If you like the D300 then you should be able to get one plus a Nikon 300mm f/4 for around £1700. If you can stretch the budget a little more an MB-D10 battery grip would balance the setup nicely and give you 8fps
Click to expand...

It won't give him 8fps with the EN-EL3e battery, you only get 8fps by spending another £250 on the bigger battery,charger and battery door or using 8AA batteries in the grip

I have the 120-300mm F/2.8 sigma, it's a fantastic lens, with a 1.4X TC on it it's still only F/4 and pin sharp wide open at f/2.8, I'd go for a S/H D200 for £450, a battery grip for £70 ish and the 120-300 for around £800, also secondhand.

Before buying the 120-300mm you should try one out, it is very heavy
 
TheKrikkitWars said:
DON'T get a D80, the metering is pants compared to a D200 or D300, if you get one of those, and the 18-70mm normal zoom (I have one, Its amongst the sharpest lenses i've ever come across.) then its just a case of finding the long lens.

I keep recommending them but Grey's of westminster, have fabulous reconditioned gear in their 2nd hand dept. you'll get more bang for your buck (or glass for your gold???) there than buying new Example:

Nikon D2x £859.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
28-70mm f/3.5-4.5D AF Zoom-Nikkor £85.00
Total £1739.00

or

Nikon D2H £575.00
80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor £795.00
New - AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G DX IF-ED £185.00
New - Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8D £89.00
Total: £1644.00
Click to expand...

Both the D2H and D2X are old cameras, the "s" versions might be worth considering (there are new D2Hss with Nikon warranties,available at around £900) but to be honest, I can't see any advantage in buying either over a D300.
 
wack61 said:
It won't give him 8fps with the EN-EL3e battery, you only get 8fps by spending another £250 on the bigger battery,charger and battery door or using 8AA batteries in the grip
Click to expand...

Which cost all of £8 a set for 2700 mAh rechargeables -I can't see that breaking the bank :LOL:
 
Pentax K20D: 14.6 million pixels, 800g

Pentax K100D: 600g

Nikon D40X: 10.0 million pixels, 522g

Canon EOS 40D: 10.1 million pixels, 822g

I raise my hat to you if you can keep up with the dpreview Pentax SLR forum
 
i am very happy with my D80, put around 20,000 shot through it in a year.

looking forward to investing into my new glass, recently bought a 70-200mm F2.8

After a few more lenses, then ill get a Pro body, may be a D3x or what ever is out late next year
 
If I may chip in here... Dal has already pointed out my D300 vs 1D MkIII thread so maybe you have seen a little of what it can do :D

For your budget you can't get a better body than the D300 really, well apart from maybe a second hand 1D MkIIN...

The trick is going to be getting some glass good enough to go with it for motorsport. I'd ignore what is written about lenses for motorsport, unless it comes from someone who actually shoots a lot of it. Every bit of glass is capable of taking photos of anything, but if it doesn't focus quick enough you won't be seeing much of a sharp shot hit rate.

My limited experience with the D300 on Friday suggests you might want to stay away from the Sigma 70-200 f2.8, I found this waaay slower focusing than the Nikon 300 F4, even when the latter had a 1.7x TC shoved on it! Yes the Sigma is wider aperture, but it makes diddly difference when you are shooting stuff that needs things to focus fast!

The Sigma 120-300 f2.8 interests me, as like you I am looking to for a fairly limited budget give me the widest out the box ability. I already know the ideal combo is a 70-200 f2.8 and a 300 prime (f4 will do, f2.8 rocks!) and some TC's, but neither you nor I are going to get that for the money we have to spend! :(

But the Sigma 120-300 f2.8 is quite heavy and non-VR/IS/OS... which also bothers me! I've had a quick go with this on a Canon 1D MkIIN and it is a heavy thing. The shots are ok, probably somewhere between the 300 F4 and the 300 f2.8, which is about where it is priced.

So maybe the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR and some TC's is the way to do it, although that will still leave you a little short for even those circuits that you get quite close. This is just about usable too as a paddock tool - providing of course its not a busy meet...

Maybe start here with the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 and add a Sigma 10-20 and Nikon 300 F4 later... I think that is my current plan if I go down this route....
 
Forget all of the Nikon nonsense and wait the for 50D. You know it makes sense :)

Canon rule (if you forget to mention the Nikon F3, F700 or F300 :crying:)
 
Organic said:
Forget all of the Nikon nonsense and wait the for 50D. You know it makes sense :)
Click to expand...

And then wait for ERROR99 to flash up on the LCD :naughty:

Actually the 50D would be worth a look, but it depends which lens system the op wants to buy into, there will always be a "better" Nikon just after the 50D comes out, followed by an even better Canon to trump that Nikon....
 
Here's my suggestion:

Treat your significant other to something amazing, and then spend the remaining £1795 on photographic gear (y)
 
Organic said:
Forget all of the Nikon nonsense and wait the for 50D. You know it makes sense :)
Click to expand...

Actually, I would argue subject to someone finding out the truth about 40D vs 50D AF performance (Canon wouldn't actually tell me) that the D300 is potentially still quite a bit better for motorsport...

And cheaper too!

The only possible thing better on the market today in a crop sensor format would be the Canon 1D MkIII... which is of course twice the price for the body alone!
 
Thanks a lot for all your help and advice people. I think I'm sold on the D300. Now onto the matter of glass, as a few have now pointed out, this is just as important for shooting motorsport as the body is. Now, I'd like a lens that went to 300mm,that's what the Pentax lens I have is capable off and that seems to be 'just right' for some of the track-side spots. A friend uses a 200mm and yearns for 'just a little more zoom' but I think that's the case with everyone is it not? LOL

@ desantnik - what is a x1.7 TC? Does this increase the zoom 1.7 times over standard? What will this do to the image, and is it a simple add-on that'll increase the zoom at a lower cost than buying a longer glass?
 
viper_biker said:
I'd like a lens that went to 300mm,that's what the Pentax lens I have is capable off and that seems to be 'just right' for some of the track-side spots. A friend uses a 200mm and yearns for 'just a little more zoom' but I think that's the case with everyone is it not? LOL

@ desantnik - what is a x1.7 TC? Does this increase the zoom 1.7 times over standard? What will this do to the image, and is it a simple add-on that'll increase the zoom at a lower cost than buying a longer glass?
Click to expand...


Ahhh....now this is where it starts to get tricky pricey. There are plenty of 300mm lenses out there that fit the D300 from about £70 upwards, but you get what you pay for. In all honesty anything that doesn't have a constant f/2.8 aperture (f/4 at a push) is going to be slow to autofocus, and snappy af is essential for motorsport.

I know there are people here who will disagree, but take a look (or even ask them) at what the pros are using next time you're at a race. I'll bet a penny to a pound that none of them will be using the 70-300 VR, or 80-400 VR or any of the Sigma lenses, except maybe the 120-300mm (see below).

The Nikon 80-200 f/2.8 is a good starting point, or a 70-200 VR if you are feeling flush. Now, you'll notice neither of these is 300mm, so you'd need a tc to get there (more about that in a minute). The alternative is either a Nikon 300mm f/4 prime (at around £7-800) or one of the Sigma 300mm f/2.8 lenses - the 300mm prime or the 120-300mm zoom, either of these, however, would swallow most of your entire budget, for new UK lenses, or just most of it for grey or secondhand ones.

Back to the tc (teleconvertor) - these come in a variety of flavours, 1.4x, 1.7x and 2.0x, in other words, as you surmised, they extend the focal length of the lens by the 1.x factor, so a 70-200 with a 2.0tc would become a 140-400mm. Sounds ideal, but it also multiplies the max aperture size by the same factor, so your f/2.8 is now a much slower focussing f/5.6 lens. TCs also degrade the image quality, by how much depends on the make and magnification factor. I haven't noticed any noticeable degredation with the 70-200 VR/Nikon 1.4tc, but I did with the 80-200/Kenko pro 1.4tc, but then the Nikon one is twice the price...

I haven't had a chance to try my new combo for motorsport yet, but the bike racing (which was my primary reason for buying the 1.4tc) is next weekend so it will be interesting to see how it goes. I believe desantnik uses a 1.7tc (correct me if I'm wrong) so would be better placed to comment on it's suitablility for motorsports.

One point to note is the Nikon teleconvertors cannot be used on the likes of the 80-200 AF-D lens, only working on the AF-S ones, although the afternarket Kenko ones will work on either. To be honest though, I wasn't all that impressed with the fit or function of my Kenko 1.4 Pro 300 and sold it after a couple of outings.

Hope this helps a bit ;)
 
Yes, indeed be careful with TC's - they can be a useful addition to the kit bag but there is a price to pay in terms of both cash and image quality (IQ).

Having said that though, if you take a look at my DTM thread mentioned further up here you'll see the Nikon 300 F4 with the 1.7x TC slapped onto it being used to pretty good effect there. If it slowed down the focus I can't say I noticed! Still no problem getting AF lock on DTM cars coming flat out under the bridge into Druids at Brands - and they are really motoring there and the field of view only gives the camera a split second to focus. A heavy weight test that it passed no problem.

To be honest, don't be scared of TC, unless you have an endless pit of money you won't ever get to play with the focal lengths possible with a TC. Providing you understand the more you magnify it, the worse it will get and also that you'll need to stop your shots down to about F9 to maintain decent quality, you'll be fine.

I do use a TC a fair bit, its not really a problem as motorsport is rarely run over the winter!

Here is an article on the 1.7x :

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/tc17e.htm

You'll also find links to the same on the 1.4x and 2x there too.

I'd serious consider the Nikon 70-200 VR with a 1.4x TC, which would give you a decent 70-200 for general shooting and some motorsport and then with the 1.4x you have a F4 zoom up to 280mm. Yes, longer is better, but for now that is almost certainly the best bet...
 
TheKrikkitWars said:
I keep recommending them but Grey's of westminster, have fabulous reconditioned gear in their 2nd hand dept. you'll get more bang for your buck (or glass for your gold???) there than buying new
Click to expand...

I'm on the lookout for a decent tele lens so thought would be worth a look at the link you posted but TBH I can't see why anyone would pay their prices? They seem to be barely cheaper than buying new? Unless I am missing something e.g.

70-300mm f/4-5.6 AF-S IF-ED VR Zoom-Nikkor
with case and hood MINT- £285.00

http://www.camerabox.co.uk/productDA.asp?ProductID=2654&gclid=CKSP6u-IkJUCFRlPEAodUHYxgA £294 brand new with 2 yr warranty?

Many more examples where S/H price only £10-20 cheaper than new with all the bits?
 
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