120 and Paterson

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Ben
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I’ve been having “reel” ;) difficulty getting 120 film onto my reels recently. 35mm goes on easily but at some point 120 just gets stuck. Is there an alternative for a Paterson tank or any modification I can do to the reel? I have the multi format that does 35mm and 120
 
I can't get on with the Paterson reels with 120, as the lead in tabs are too narrow. I have AP reels that came with my AP tank (but still work in a Paterson system) that have much wider tabs.

This is what I mean, I don't think the reel is an AP one but it's the same style.

PatersonSamigon2.jpg

[link to website for photo]

I've also found that 120 film can be really difficult to get onto a reel if you cut the corners too much (or don't cut them at all).
 
Make sure that your reel is thoroughly dry and clean, wetting agent can dry a little bit sticky so avoid dipping your reels in it.

It is not unknown for small amounts of liquid to hide around the ball bearings which then spreads to the film and causes sticking. After every use try giving the reel a good clean with a toothbrush and thoroughly dry.

Many years ago I used to process something like 40 - 60 rolls of 120 each morning (deep tank etc) I always found stainless steel spirals were much easier and quicker to load (once the technique was mastered).
 
I always used to have trouble with 120 on Paterson reels when done in a dark bag, but never when done on an open bench iin a darkroom. I don't know what that says about technique, but I've processed a couple of 120 films in the recent past and have been pleasantly surprised when they went smoothly onto the reel. I think the other Paterson problem comes from the fact that the reel needs to be exactly the correct width for 120, or else the film doesn't go on smoothly. Too narrow is an obvious problem, but slightly too wide and it can jump the groove. The reel I use for 120 is kept for that, and never adjusted.
 
I can't get on with the Paterson reels with 120, as the lead in tabs are too narrow. I have AP reels that came with my AP tank (but still work in a Paterson system) that have much wider tabs.

This is what I mean, I don't think the reel is an AP one but it's the same style.

PatersonSamigon2.jpg

[link to website for photo]

I've also found that 120 film can be really difficult to get onto a reel if you cut the corners too much (or don't cut them at all).

Ive been using similar to the reels on the right and they are much better. Ive also found that if you pull the negative through the lip and onto the reel for an inch of so the remainder of the feed goes much more smoothly.
 
I always used to have trouble with 120 on Paterson reels when done in a dark bag, but never when done on an open bench iin a darkroom.
Yes... I should have pointed out that 120 is far easier to load onto any spiral if the spool and backing paper are left attached to the end as it adds a little bit of weight, this means of course that a changing bag is hard to use as the film is unable to hang.. (holding the spiral vertically and allowing the film to hang vertically, remove the spool and backing paper when the film is loaded fully...)
 
Yes... I should have pointed out that 120 is far easier to load onto any spiral if the spool and backing paper are left attached to the end as it adds a little bit of weight, this means of course that a changing bag is hard to use as the film is unable to hang.. (holding the spiral vertically and allowing the film to hang vertically, remove the spool and backing paper when the film is loaded fully...)
I maybe should have said that I now use a Calumet "tent" thingy, so I do indeed let the film hang vertically as I wind it on. It was originally bought for LF, but once you get used to it you wouldn't want to go back to a bag.
Obscura filmtent car.jpg
 
Yes... I should have pointed out that 120 is far easier to load onto any spiral if the spool and backing paper are left attached to the end as it adds a little bit of weight, this means of course that a changing bag is hard to use as the film is unable to hang.. (holding the spiral vertically and allowing the film to hang vertically, remove the spool and backing paper when the film is loaded fully...)

I find it easiest to let the film hang vertically with the weight of the film spool hanging below it, and then as I'm twisting the two halves of the reel to get the film onto it, I place both of my little fingers on the edges of the film where they meet the film spool at the bottom, which keeps everything lined up with the film spool hanging below.

That probably doesn't make much sense as it's hard to describe what I mean!
 
Not sure if this helps, but I find that if the film snags on the edges and won't advance onto the reel any further, pulling the two halves of the reel away from each other whilst doing the twisting action usually frees the film up. Not a lot of force on the reel, just basically pulling lightly so that the free play is taken up
 
I find it easiest to let the film hang vertically with the weight of the film spool hanging below it, and then as I'm twisting the two halves of the reel to get the film onto it, I place both of my little fingers on the edges of the film where they meet the film spool at the bottom, which keeps everything lined up with the film spool hanging below.

That probably doesn't make much sense as it's hard to describe what I mean!
It does... it is the same as I tried to describe, it isn't easy to explain ;)
 
Make sure that your reel is thoroughly dry and clean, wetting agent can dry a little bit sticky so avoid dipping your reels in it.

It is not unknown for small amounts of liquid to hide around the ball bearings which then spreads to the film and causes sticking. After every use try giving the reel a good clean with a toothbrush and thoroughly dry.

Many years ago I used to process something like 40 - 60 rolls of 120 each morning (deep tank etc) I always found stainless steel spirals were much easier and quicker to load (once the technique was mastered).
It could be this. I use ilfords wetting agent and although I do rinse the reels in water I wouldn’t say I wash them. Then I just let them dry on the draining board.
 
Might have to mess around with a roll in the light to see where it’s snagging. The roll I did yesterday got stuck very early on and took a lot of force to get it on, luckily only one frame was damaged and it was one I had messed up anyway
 
Might try it out of the bag too, I have noticed how humid it can get inside, could be why it’s sticking
 
Just picked up a Calumet tent (should be here this week) as I've always battled with changing bags for 120. 35mm I can get on the real 99 of 100 on the first go, but 120 raises my blood pressure to another level.
Also need to have a look at those AP/Kaiser reels as they look very useful with that larger lip.
Excellent - as I'm typing this the Calumet tent has arrived. That's my afternoon sorted then, and work can wait until later.
 
Excellent - as I'm typing this the Calumet tent has arrived. That's my afternoon sorted then, and work can wait until later.
Hope you paid attention to how it folds back down when you were unfolding it. :whistle:
 
Might try it out of the bag too, I have noticed how humid it can get inside, could be why it’s sticking

Can't get film on spool...
Get annoyed and hot...
Clammy hands ...
Tent gets humid...
Now really can't get film on spool...
Get angrier and hotter...
Hands get sweatier...
... and repeat!

Been there many times!
 
Can't get film on spool...
Get annoyed and hot...
Clammy hands ...
Tent gets humid...
Now really can't get film on spool...
Get angrier and hotter...
Hands get sweatier...
... and repeat!

Been there many times!
Same here... loading film has the same effect in our house as assembling flat pack furniture. Everyone just hides out of the way until it's over and the tantrums have stopped.
 
Interesting comments on the Paterson spirals. I first started developing films when I was using roll film (120/620) box cameras and had a Paterson Major II tank and spirals. I never had the slightest difficulty, and I was loading them under the bedclothes - and that's really hot work in summer. When I came back to using 120, I'd moved on the the System 4 tanks and spirals which again were problem free with 35mm, but I found difficulty when it came to 120, which was a complete surprise to me. This thread has now made me wonder if I should switch back to my Major II tanks and spirals for roll film.
 
I like the look of the Calumet tent thing - like a Dr Who alien from the 1960s!

My wife gets a fit of the giggles when I'm using the changing bag on my lap.
 
Reels with wider tabs made home developing significantly better - they are a good investment.
 
The popular consensus from them in the know is....go stainless or, go home.
I've often considered changing from system 4 to stainless, but never got round to it, I don't think I have enough problems to push me over the edge.
This of course is no help whatsoever to the op...

I thank you..*bows*...:D
 
I’ve been having “reel” ;) difficulty getting 120 film onto my reels recently. 35mm goes on easily but at some point 120 just gets stuck. Is there an alternative for a Paterson tank or any modification I can do to the reel? I have the multi format that does 35mm and 120


Try warming the reels first Sir, we usually put ours in our drying cabinet for a minute of two first, this makes sure there is no moisture (even atmospheric moisture) present within the reel. Even if they are already perfectly dry for some reason they are just easier to load if warmed slightly first. I guess you may not have a drying cabinet to do this so a bit of gentle heat from a hair dryer will suffice. Always works for us.(y)

George.
 
Try warming the reels first Sir, we usually put ours in our drying cabinet for a minute of two first, this makes sure there is no moisture (even atmospheric moisture) present within the reel. Even if they are already perfectly dry for some reason they are just easier to load if warmed slightly first. I guess you may not have a drying cabinet to do this so a bit of gentle heat from a hair dryer will suffice. Always works for us.(y)

George.
I shall try this next time I have a roll to develop.
 
gawd that would smash my ocd to bits

not that I have ocd or anything, but if I did, it would

first thoughts, dishwasher tablet residue, so no tablets and is 60 degrees hot enough to mishape the reel making it even harder to load

won't sleep now thinking about dishwashers and contaminated reels
 
gawd that would smash my ocd to bits

not that I have ocd or anything, but if I did, it would

first thoughts, dishwasher tablet residue, so no tablets and is 60 degrees hot enough to mishape the reel making it even harder to load

won't sleep now thinking about dishwashers and contaminated reels
True, was trying to think of the laziest way to really clean them lol. Toothbrush it is
 
The Kaiser reel, which I think is the same as the AP reels, arrived the other week and it is so much easier to load 120 than the Paterson reels that I have. My blood pressure levels are now only slightly raised (trying to cut the film from the paper whilst retaining all of my fingers).
 
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