3rd party battery grips?

dentedshed said:
Would you care to point out exactly which Canon lens that my Tokina is an exact copy of? Thought not.

As I have said before, unless Canon (or any other manufacturer) is issuing a licence to manufacture to the 3rd party makers of the likes of grips or batteries then it is theft. I severely doubt that a manufacturer would go to all the trouble of R&D only to licence someone else to make it to be sold on so cheaply.

It is theft, simples.
Click to expand...

Errrr Tokina reverse engineer ............... like all Canon 3rd party lens manufactures....... so yes SIMPLES
 
dentedshed said:
Okay, I am taking specifically about Canon grips as that's my brand.

Are you aware of any 3rd party manufacturer making grips with permission from Canon? I'm certainly not.

I'm quite happy to be proven wrong here.
Click to expand...

Why does someone need permission from Canon to make compatible accessories? Other manufacturers do it with all manner of consumer products - there's nothing special about photography.

Nothing unlawful about it - civil or criminal.
 
I have a Mieke grip for my 1000D, and it feels a damn sight better quality than the camera does. :D

I didn't think there was anything illegal about it unless they were trying to sell it as a genuine Canon item. I've got a spoiler on my car that's made using a mould taken directly from the genuine Honda item. It was £150 instead of ~£500.
 
dentedshed said:
Stop moving the goalposts.

I've always been talking specifically about grips and batteries.
Click to expand...

No you haven't - i quote

From my point of view, Canon have spent a lot of time and money developing both cameras and the accessories that go with them and for that reason I will only use the genuine accessories. I could be wrong but I'd be willing to bet money on the fact that 3rd party grips are not manufactured under licence from Canon so are therefore reverse engineered form the original article. That in my book is theft.

:shrug:

i always though a lens was a accessory.
 
aligibbs said:
So its ok to reverse engineer/copy a lens, but not a grip/battery? :shrug:
Click to expand...

Which is not what I have said.

Tokina have a licence from Canon. Tokina do not market their lenses as a direct replacement for xyz lens.

3rd party grip manufacturers do not have any licence from Canon yet *do* market them as a direct replacement for xyz grip.

See the difference.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
No you haven't - i quote

From my point of view, Canon have spent a lot of time and money developing both cameras and the accessories that go with them and for that reason I will only use the genuine accessories. I could be wrong but I'd be willing to bet money on the fact that 3rd party grips are not manufactured under licence from Canon so are therefore reverse engineered form the original article. That in my book is theft.

:shrug:

i always though a lens was a accessory.
Click to expand...

Conviently ignoring the bit where I mention grips in the same quote.
 
dentedshed said:
Which is not what I have said.

Tokina have a licence from Canon. Tokina do not market their lenses as a direct replacement for xyz lens.

3rd party grip manufacturers do not have any licence from Canon yet *do* market them as a direct replacement for xyz grip.

See the difference.
Click to expand...

No they don't - they reverse engineer the mount to allow focusing and exposure control from the body, as do sigma and Tamron.

And what about the Tokina 70-200mm f2.8 is that not a direct replacement for a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 ? well as in a name.
 
dentedshed said:
Conviently ignoring the bit where I mention grips in the same quote.
Click to expand...

In the next sentence after a full stop. if you were just referring to grips you would have said grip :thinking:

So are you saying its only theft for a grip but a reverse engineered lens is OK and not theft .
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
No they don't - they reverse engineer the mount to allow focusing and exposure control from the body, as do sigma and Tamron.

And what about the Tokina 70-200mm f2.8 is that not a direct replacement for a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 ? well as in a name.
Click to expand...

I recall about five years ago reading that both Tokina and Tamron pay a fee to Canon but Sigma don't, hence the compatibility problems with Sigma lenses. I've done a quick google but cannot find a copy of the article but plenty of references to Tokina & Tamron paying a fee.

As to the 70-200mm question, does Tokina market the lens as a direct replacemnet to the Canon branded lens?
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
In the next sentence after a full stop. if you were just referring to grips you would have said grip :thinking:

So are you saying its only theft for a grip but a reverse engineered lens is OK and not theft .
Click to expand...

The OP was about grips, anything I'd previously posted was about grips. Who was it brought in lenses? Oh yeah!

No, I am not saying a reverse engineered lens is okay.
 
aligibbs said:
"Canon have said that they do not licence their lens technology to other manufacturers so the 3rd party lens makers have to "reverse engineer" the communications protocol."

Please prove they have a licence.
Click to expand...

Where is the above quote from?

As mentioned elsewhere, I read it, in proper print, about five years ago. I just cannot find a copy online now.
 
"As for 3rd party lenses, well, remember that they are all reverse engineered. Canon doesn't licence their lens technology to anyone else. Sigma/Tamron/Tokina have taken apart Canon lenses and looked at the data exchange protocol and tried to figure out how to make a lens work just like a Canon lens"

from http://photo.net/learn/focustest/ written by Bob Atkins, who is the technical editor for photo.net.
 
what an unbelievable thread...bullcrap flying everywhere...

buy what you want, or whatever your strange promultinationalcorporation morals guide you towards... end of the day, yes, the ebay ones work fine...
 
i know dentedshed said they didnt mean to come across as a troll ... but I have my doubts!
 
aligibbs said:
"As for 3rd party lenses, well, remember that they are all reverse engineered. Canon doesn't licence their lens technology to anyone else. Sigma/Tamron/Tokina have taken apart Canon lenses and looked at the data exchange protocol and tried to figure out how to make a lens work just like a Canon lens"

from http://photo.net/learn/focustest/ written by Bob Atkins, who is the technical editor for photo.net.
Click to expand...

Well, like I have said, I read it in print but cannot find an online copy to back it up.

At the end of the day, this thread started about grips and that was what I was always referring to until all of a sudden I was talking about everything associated with a camera :shrug:

I've already said that I wasn't trolling, or, trying to start an arguement but regardless that seems to have happened.

I still stand by my belief that anyone copying and manufacturing an identical product (like a camera grip), without licence or permission, has stolen from the original manufacturer, who after all, has done all the research and development in the first place.

I'm going to bow out of this thread gracefully now as it just seems to be going on a downward spiral.

To the OP, I apologise for ruining your thread.

:wave:
 
neil_g said:
http://nunetherlands.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/troll1.jpg

?
Click to expand...

trollface.png


I still stand by my belief that anyone copying and manufacturing an identical product (like a camera grip), without licence or permission, has stolen from the original manufacturer, who after all, has done all the research and development in the first place.
Click to expand...

I bought some bread from tescos. They do also sell ham sandwiches, and ham, but I put some ham from sainsburys on the bread myself and made a sandwich... OH NO I'M STEALING.
 
Whats this a Batter Dented for his opinion. :bonk:

Simple fact of life some like to buy the origional and if they have the funds fine, Some like pattern parts at reduced costs like me and thats fine by me.

The OP asked about grips, the MeiKe one is particularly good.

If anything it could only be classed as theft of intelectual property, who cares you takes your choice.

One thing thats been mentioned thats wrong, Tamron have a Canon Licence to use their mount technology, maybe thats why they never need rechipping.

I use copy batteries, but they are 100% identical in every way to an origional, more so than any I've ever seen before. I reckon they are just backdoor cells.
My grip is MeiKe and does the job.
I've stuck to Canon lenses where they are important purchases, but as I was doubtfull I'd take to Macro I went with a Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro.


By the way Dave

I bought some bread from tescos. They do also sell ham sandwiches, and ham, but I put some ham from sainsburys on the bread myself and made a sandwich... OH NO I'M STEALING
Click to expand...

Sorry your not stealing as the Earl of Sandwich is long dead and he never held copyright on the humble Ham sarnie, plus Sainsbury's Ham on Tesco bread, that surely is a pattern part :D
 
ChrisH said:
One thing thats been mentioned thats wrong, Tamron have a Canon Licence to use their mount technology, maybe thats why they never need rechipping.
Click to expand...

I thinks thats a uban myth I've seen an official Canon statement before but i cant find it :bonk: - there are quite a lot of references of the web :shrug:

My obligatory standard notice: You should know that there are potential issues with third party lenses. Since Tamron reverse engineers (vs. licenses) manufacturer AF routines, the possibility exists that a new body might not support an older third party lens.

From the Digital Picture review site
 
Ive got a 3rd party for my 1000d and im more than happy about it.
Even if itll break, i will only lose 20quid
 
I have a linkdelight one for my 5dii and its great, no troubles with it whatsoever.

Is it reverse engineered? Probably yes, but personally I couldnt give a monkeys, if someone made copies of cameras and lenses to the same quality as the Canon L glass then I would buy them, as Im sure a lot of other people would as well. All of the major brands out there over charge compared to what these things cost them to make so I have no guilt in buying 3rd party grips.

On the same argument if someone wants to quote: If someone wants to go and take a picture in exactly the same spot, using the same settings and camera as I have and sell it for cheaper then good luck to them I say.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top