450D to......?

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Prodriver

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Nigel
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Hi, I'm pretty new to DSLRs but have acquired a nice gripped 450D with an 18-200mm IS from my father who has returned to a G11.

Love the camera and the results are good (for me anyway!) and have been bitten by the bug.

Looking at the Canon range and, bearing in mind I don't want to spend large amounts, I like the look of the 40D and 50D. I have also seen the 550D but I have a Panasonic HD camcorder already....

So, just looking for opinions on whether to sell the Panny and get a 550D or, which of the 40D or 50D is better.

Having read some reviews I'm leaning towards the 50D............unless of course, you know different ;)

Cheers
Nige
 
What glass do you have? 99% of the time it's better to upgrade that first. The 450D is a very capable camera. So, I would suggest glass first. What do you like photographing?
 
Unless you want to do ultra low light stuff or very fast action the 450D will be fine. Had one before my current camera and actually in some ways I still miss it.
 
Dave Stone said:
What glass do you have? 99% of the time it's better to upgrade that first. The 450D is a very capable camera. So, I would suggest glass first. What do you like photographing?
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Only glass I have is the 18-200mm IS (and a 50mm macro currently on loan from a mate)......

Along with the usual family stuff I like to photograph sport so thought the 40D or 50D would be good as they are 6fps....?
 
I have no experience of the superzoom lens you have, but in my experience sports requires a good quality, fast lens which is sharp wide open. I'd recommend an L series 70-200/2.8 or 70-200/4 or if you can get away with f5.6, at least go a little longer e.g. EF 70-300/4-5.6 IS.
 
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manualfocus-g said:
I have no experience of the superzoom lens you have, but in my experience sports requires a good quality, fast lens which is sharp wide open. I'd recommend an L series 70-200/2.8 or 70-200/4 or if you can get away with f5.6, at least go a little longer e.g. EF 70-300/4-5.6 IS.
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Had a feeling that might be the case.

Don't really have the cash required for a 70-200L at the moment and don't particularly want to opt for the 70-300 only to have to upgrade again soon after.

The only reason I thought I might upgrade the camera was that I think I could afford the 40D or 50D (was thinking probably £150-£200 plus the 450D for a 50D?) and work from there having saved some serious pennies for some L glass......
 
What doesn't your current combination give you?
 
There is little point in getting a new body with 18-200mm slow lens. The softness will show up really strongly with 50D, and there will be a healthy dose of digital noise too. 40D is slightly more forgiving and can be had fairly cheaply now.
Good fast / 'fat' glass would be the first stop really.
 
Prodriver said:
Had a feeling that might be the case.

Don't really have the cash required for a 70-200L at the moment and don't particularly want to opt for the 70-300 only to have to upgrade again soon after.

The only reason I thought I might upgrade the camera was that I think I could afford the 40D or 50D (was thinking probably £150-£200 plus the 450D for a 50D?) and work from there having saved some serious pennies for some L glass......
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...it would be more like £300-£400 plus the 450D body only in exchange for a 50D, used!
 
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I agree with those who recommend lenses over a new camera body as apart from an arguable / possible improvement in ergonomics and (to me) irrelevant increase in frame rate is there any reason you're keen to replace the camera body?

Even changing lenses becomes questionable unless you are going for a wider aperture or macro as any improvement in image quality, distortion, vignetting or CA will probably only be marginable and only noticeable if pixel peeping or in the very unlikely instance of printing very large.

Why not just be happy with what you have?
 
woof woof said:
I agree with those who recommend lenses over a new camera body as apart from an arguable / possible improvement in ergonomics and (to me) irrelevant increase in frame rate is there any reason you're keen to replace the camera body?

Even changing lenses becomes questionable unless you are going for a wider aperture or macro as any improvement in image quality, distortion, vignetting or CA will probably only be marginable and only noticeable if pixel peeping or in the very unlikely instance of printing very large.

Why not just be happy with what you have?
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Some of us are never satisfied I guess, until you get to the 'current pinnacle' which is obviously ever-changing (and usually only aspirational!) ;)

Appreciate your comments on the glass though.

The only reason I was thinking of upgrading the camera is that the 40D/50D are more robust, have greater frame rate and are simply a step up from the 450D.

I find myself trying to 'keep up' with the ever evolving market, not only in the camera world. Like renewing your car I guess - if you leave it too long the gap between what you have and what you want becomes too wide - if you're with me.
 
DaveKing said:
If you are prepared to spend around £300-400, you should be able to buy a 70-200mm F4L for that.
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I did see that the 70-200mm F4s were going from £350-£400 but wasn't looking to spend that amount right now although that would be one of the lenses I would buy maybe after Crimbo.....

Right now I don't have that kind of cash. If I was to swap bodies I was hoping to get late £200's for the 450D and maybe pick up a 50D for £450'ish, meaning I'd only have to lay out less than £200..........? Or am I dillusional?
 
"...if you're with me."

I'm sort of with you. I know that a camera is more than just a shutter button but unless any improved feature is going to make the camera easier to use or make it more likely that you'll get the shot I'd always question the reason for wanting to change.

For family stuff and sport I think I'd be looking at a 17-50mm f2.8 for the family stuff and something else tailored towards sport, probably again a f2.8. But I personally don't see that much advantage in getting a new camera body.
 
For sport he may need a better high ISO performance. The 450 performs well up to ISO 1600, but the problem is, that's where she's capped - ISO 1600.
 
Hi Nigel,

I went from a 450D to a 50D and i think it's a massive improvement. It just feels so much better and couple with a 70-200 F4L (£350-£400 second hand) it is superb. I have since coupled mine with a Canon 60mm macro and still love the results. I would recommend the 50D to anyone. You're certainly not dillusional in your thinking although maybe just a tad out. You'll get a 50D body for £480-£500 second hand and you might get close to £300 for your 450D so still about £200 to make up.
 
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scottduffy said:
Hi Nigel,

I went from a 450D to a 50D and i think it's a massive improvement. It just feels so much better and couple with a 70-200 F4L (£350-£400 second hand) it is superb. I have since coupled mine with a Canon 60mm macro and still love the results. I would recommend the 50D to anyone. You're certainly not dillusional in your thinking although maybe just a tad out. You'll get a 50D body for £480-£500 second hand and you might get close to £300 for your 450D so still about £200 to make up.
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Cheers Scott, I like the idea of a 50D as opposed to the older 40D.

I will probably keep an eye out for a good 50D, stump up a couple of hundred for the difference and put some L glass on my list for Santa ;)

I think, going forward that the 50D will provide a better basis for upgrade.

Nige :thumbs:
 
I have never used a 40d but when the difference in second hand prices is about £80 ish then i think moving to the newer camera especially when it's considered a better camera is the way to go. I know the 50D was viewed as not a massive improvement from the 40D but it is an improvement on what was already an excellent camera. I'll post a picture i took a wee while ago with this combination (50D+70-700 F4L) and you can see it's a good combo. I don't claim to be a good photographer i just think this example with no post processing shows it's a nice combo.

 
I went from a 400d to a 50d and wish I had done it sooner, although i did invest in some better glass whilst i had the 400 before upgrading the body.
The 50d will last me for a long time yet, unless i win some money:naughty:
I dont think my skills will outstrip the camera's capabilities for a long time yet:D
 
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Stay with the 450D and get some decent glass, plus an off camera flash. Learn with that and then swap the 450d if you feel the need.
________
Asian **** Tube
 
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scottduffy said:
I have never used a 40d but when the difference in second hand prices is about £80 ish then i think moving to the newer camera especially when it's considered a better camera is the way to go. I know the 50D was viewed as not a massive improvement from the 40D but it is an improvement on what was already an excellent camera. I'll post a picture i took a wee while ago with this combination (50D+70-700 F4L) and you can see it's a good combo. I don't claim to be a good photographer i just think this example with no post processing shows it's a nice combo.

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Thanks guys,

Scott, that combo certainly appeals!

Robin, I'm definitely leaning that way and will save my pennies for some L glass methinks!

Alan, appreciate your thoughts, thanks. I definitely will get some better glass but, at the mo the budget won't stretch as far as it would need to so I reckon I'll keep my eye out for a 50D.....

Nige
 
Prodriver said:
I did see that the 70-200mm F4s were going from £350-£400 but wasn't looking to spend that amount right now although that would be one of the lenses I would buy maybe after Crimbo.....

Right now I don't have that kind of cash. If I was to swap bodies I was hoping to get late £200's for the 450D and maybe pick up a 50D for £450'ish, meaning I'd only have to lay out less than £200..........? Or am I dillusional?
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Hmmm... I think you are looking at about £5-600 for a good used 50D, though you can get grey imports for not much more. Thats said, 50D's seem to be very rare these days so the used prices seem to be higher at the moment. Privately you might get what you want for the 450D but its worth noting if you px it with a retailer they will give you significantly less...

I did a similar upgrade (400D to 50D), and it took me a long time to find a barely used one, but I havnt looked back, absolutely brilliant camera, though I do already have a variety of lenses!
 
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Nigel - you seem to have your heart on upgrading your 450D and speaking from experience (I went from 450D to 7D after 18 months) I know how difficult it is to persuade yourself not to do it.

Whilst the 50D is undoubtedly a better body than the 450D, don't underestimate the capabilities of the 450D. It's an excellent starting point for DSLR photography and will serve you well for a long time. Yes newer bodies are better in low light/quicker fps etc., but as everyone else here has said so far, put some better glass in front of it and you'll be amazed by how good a picture it can take.

The trouble with upgrading your body before upgrading your glass is that you'll still get average results with average glass. I upgraded my 18-55mm and 55-250 lenses with a 24-105L f/4 and a 70-200L f/4 before upgrading my body and the difference really was night and day - even though both of the 'kit' lenses are very well regarded.

L lenses are obviously top of the class in terms of quality, build etc. but there are also some very good EF-S lenses too (17-55 f/2.8 and 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 both spring to mind) - however flipside is that the very good EF-S lenses are often similar price bracket to some L lenses!

My advice really would be to save a little more or longer and invest in a 70-200L f/4, which will suit you well for sports, and really get to know the 450D in the extra time that it'll take you from there to save up for a newer body.

I'm sure you'll become enamoured with the 450D in a short space of time and although you'll still want to upgrade your body (upgradeitis affects us all!) the time you invest in learning how to take better photographs with the 450D will serve you well for whatever comes next.
 
What about a 550D? I tried one the other day and was very impressed with it, it's miles better in low light (hardly any colour noise) and has a lot of detail at "normal" iso's.
 
The contributors on here are absolutely spot on about upgrading your glass first.

The 450D is an extremely capable body (I have two now) and managed quite happily with the stock 17-55 zoom until I upgraded to a 50mm and a sigma 17-70 f2.8. much better option in my mind - as when I do choose to upgrade my body - my investment in the lenses stays with me.

Buy decent glass first (assuming you want to stay with canon) and reap those benefits... you will not regret it.
 
Nigel,

I fully understand about the desire (lust!) to upgrade to a better body. However, as many here have indicated, improving your glass should really be the next step. I started with a 350D & kit lens, I also had a couple of old Canon lenses from my film days. When I moved up to a 40D the first thing I noticed was how poor my lenses were on the new body. I then had to start getting a number of new lenses to complement the new camera.

If I had of listened to those on here who suggested I look at my lenses, I would have been much better off. The money you spend on upgrading the body could go towards a decent used lens. A used 70-300 f4-5.6 IS or maybe a 17-85 IS. Something of that ilk will help you a lot more than a new body, and you don't need to buy "L" glass, some of the "consumer" range of lenses are very good indeed.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but believe me, as somebody who made that error a few years ago, glass first is always the best move.

Steve
 
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Upgrade lenses first.

I has a 400d which I used for taking photos of horses jumping. I got some great shots but soon realised that the glass I was using was holding me back so I upgraded my main lens to a 70-200 F2.8L and carried on using the 400d.

In fact, I would still be using the 400d but shows have now switched indoors for the winter, so I found I needed a camera with much better high ISO capabilities, so I switched to a 50d, which seems to be delivering the goods.

I found it is better to stick with what you have and learn from it and then upgrade when you can see a need for it, not just for the sake of it.
 
Right guys, I surrender :lol:

Some of you obviously have experienced the same desire (lust) for a better body as I :love:

Let me put it another way - if I was lucky enough to be able to upgrade the body first (with the first smaller tranche of budget) and then, shortly afterwards, upgrade to some L glass what body would you suggest?

Nige
 
Could only make it 40D/50D/550D territory - can only dream of a single digit D (note to self - do the lottery!).

Did consider the 550D (would mean I could sell my HD camcorder) but the 50D seems to be a much better camera....?
 
It is the better camera. However, it seems as if you simply have kit lust, rather than a direction in mind to improve you photography?

I mean, what is it you want to shoot and what do u want to improve? With only the 18-200 it doesn't sound as if you have fully explored the kit you already have... You mentioned you like shooting sports but your 450d is more than capable of that, fps isn't everything when it comes to sports!

We can all say how good the 50d is, and how good L glass is, but what would you like to be able to achieve in your photography over say, the next 12 months?
 
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odd jim said:
It is the better camera. However, it seems as if you simply have kit lust, rather than a direction in mind to improve you photography?

I mean, what is it you want to shoot and what do u want to improve? With only the 18-200 it doesn't sound as if you have fully explored the kit you already have... You mentioned you like shooting sports but your 450d is more than capable of that, fps isn't everything when it comes to sports!

We can all say how good the 50d is, and how good L glass is, but what would you like to be able to achieve in your photography over say, the next 12 months?
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I guess it is kit lust. I have some spare cash and wanted to settle on some gear that I feel will last me for quite a while and I was working on the basis that a 50D and some decent glass would enhance even my meagre photography skills.

I was fortunate enough to 'inherit' the current 450D and 18-200mm from my father who has returned to a G11 so it wasn't by choice that I have this set up.

As for my aspirations over the next 12 months, I'd like to settle on some gear that would ideally provide some sharper images which I see are achievable with the L series lenses. I don't have any other goals TBH.
 
I went from the 400d to the 50d. I also was shooting sport and found the 6.3fps to be a big help. It's also a bigger camera and feels better made.

Everyone is different of course.
 
Prodriver said:
I guess it is kit lust. I have some spare cash and wanted to settle on some gear that I feel will last me for quite a while and I was working on the basis that a 50D and some decent glass would enhance even my meagre photography skills.

I was fortunate enough to 'inherit' the current 450D and 18-200mm from my father who has returned to a G11 so it wasn't by choice that I have this set up.

As for my aspirations over the next 12 months, I'd like to settle on some gear that would ideally provide some sharper images which I see are achievable with the L series lenses. I don't have any other goals TBH.
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Nigel - as hard as it is, try to forget a different body for the time being and focus on getting some new glass.

As others have mentioned, try to decided what type of photography you want to do and that will influence what glass you should go for, e.g.

  • if you want to do some landscapes (countryside or urban) then you might want to look at some of the wide lenses, e.g. Canon or Sigma 10-20mm or Tokina 11-16mm or 12-24mm.

  • If you want a general purpose/carry about lens, then something in the range of Canon 15-85mm would do very nicely - although you could also get a 24-105L for a little more - both are very capable lenses and will do the 450D proud.

  • If you fancy some sports action, like you've suggested earlier, then a Canon 70-300 would suit well, although you'll generally get better images from a 70-200mm L. The f/4 version would be a great one to go for as it's really sharp and would also be more than enough to satisfy your better gear lust. It's also a great lens for portrait photography.

Make your mind up on what you want to photo then choose your lens.

BTW - if you're interested in a 70-200L f/4 - I'm selling mine here. You could say I'm a pot calling the kettle black as I'm just as prone to kit lust/upgradeitis as everyone else, having upgraded my lens to the IS version for no apparent reason other than wanting one!!! Welcome to the world of photography and kit lust! :bonk:
 
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