580EXII 20 Shot max

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torque22

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Hi
I have been doing second shooter on a number of weddings rcently.
I have 2 cameras round my kneck both fitted with 580EXII flash units.

Guests arrival, wedding ceremony and group/ informals takes about 3-4 hours after which I have about 400 pics, then the meal break followed by speaches and more informals, 1st dance etc. another 200 pics

A problem I have noticed is that sets of pictures are underexposed due to the flash not firing.

Time to read the manual......
The manual says that the unit can only do 20 pics in quick succession, if you try to use it again and it overheats the head, it shuts down for 10-15 mins.....Are they having a laugh or what?

I alternate cameras from 1 min to the next grabbing shots as I see them but even this does not help.

4hrs 400 pics = 100 pics in 60 mins = 10 pics in 6mins
So that could be 5 pics in 6 mins for each camera. That should be ok but the problem is that some action shots and events require 6-7 quick shots in less than a min so that is prob what kills the flash.

So My Question is........
:thinking::thinking:
How can I overcome this problem?

I already admitted i am no fan of the flash manual:help: Maybe i am just being lazy here, but why invent the wheel twice.

Can i reduce power output so that i get 40 shots max?
I shoot most pics on P mode so if i reduced power and the shutter speed is just about fixed by P Mode, I will loose the narrow dof which i like on most informals for subject isolation..:thinking:
 
I think you will find that is when using the stroboscopic function, general flash shooting will be just fine ;)
 
is the problem your batteries? if the power output is quite low, the flash might not have charged in time
 
I have had this problem on 3 weddings, I have changed batteries and now even try to pace myself with taking pictures so as to avoid these outages.
the problem is with both flash units on 2 different cameras.
The main TOG also has this problem with his cameras and 580EXII units as well.
 
I've never done a wedding with digital gear, I always shot one 36 exposure roll of film. Any more shots than that and they paid extra. I rarely shot more than 2 rolls of film. There's an obvious advantage with shooting more shots with digital just on a cost per shot basis, but I think you really need to ask yourself if you need to shoot that many shots. 600 shots covering a wedding seems nuts to me, and if you're going to be using flash for all or the bulk of the shots, you're going to challenge any flash unit. ;)
 
Ajophotog said:
I think you will find that is when using the stroboscopic function, general flash shooting will be just fine ;)
Click to expand...

Ajophotog this problem is reality.
I am not using the stroboscopic function....?

I use ETTL mode with compensation set to -1 outside and +/- 0 inside.
 
CT said:
I've never done a wedding with digital gear, I always shot one 36 exposure roll of film. Any more shots than that and they paid extra. I rarely shot more than 2 rolls of film. There's an obvious advantage with shooting more shots with digital just on a cost per shot basis, but I think you really need to ask yourself if you need to shoot that many shots. 600 shots covering a wedding seems nuts to me, and if you're going to be using flash for all or the bulk of the shots, you're going to challenge any flash unit. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes I agree that 600 is a bit much but 20 shot max is more than a bit restrictive. So with 2 cameras and 2 flash units i get 40 shots max in ? timeframe.

I hope somone knows a compromise method for reducing power and still getting the shots. Its only doing fill flash for 70% of the shots.
 
what is the power rating of your batteries? should say the mA on the side of the battery.

mine took a fair few shots in rapid succession without a problem, i think my batteries are 2500mA
 
I suspect the problem is your style of shooting perhaps? Posing couples/groups etc in a more formal manner slows you down anyway. To be doing that many shots in rapid succession, you're obviously taking the more candid type of shots, and waaay too many of them by the sound of it. I'd be inclined to slow down and be a little more selective in the shots you're taking? :)
 
Maybe faulty then, I have taken 40 shots at least in fairly quick succession with mine set to manual and ettl and it's preformed fine, the only time I had outage was after using the modeling function too much and the stroboscopic function. Maybe check out with Canon's service department, but that doesn't sound good or right to me.
 
fletch5 said:
what is the power rating of your batteries? should say the mA on the side of the battery.

mine took a fair few shots in rapid succession without a problem, i think my batteries are 2500mA
Click to expand...

I have been using a fresh set of duracell each wedding but have just recieved some 2700 NiMH rechargables, will be trying them in a couple of weeks time.
 
CT said:
I suspect the problem is your style of shooting perhaps? Posing couples/groups etc in a more formal manner slows you down anyway. To be doing that many shots in rapid succession, you're obviously taking the more candid type of shots, and waaay too many of them by the sound of it. I'd be inclined to slow down and be a little more selective in the shots you're taking? :)
Click to expand...

Yes CT, I agree that i do need to be more selective, it's amazing how many times people close their eyes, move, or somone else moves into the shot.

I am just being over cautiuos and making sure I have everything covered.
 
Ajophotog said:
Maybe faulty then, I have taken 40 shots at least in fairly quick succession with mine set to manual and ettl and it's preformed fine, the only time I had outage was after using the modeling function too much and the stroboscopic function. Maybe check out with Canon's service department, but that doesn't sound good or right to me.
Click to expand...

If it were just one 580EXII on one camera i might have thought it was faulty, but my two units and the other TOG's two units as well?

Its usually at the 2+ hour point when the probs start and i think it does relate to what the manual says about over heating.
 
There's nothing wrong with 'P' mode btw, but it works best out of doors in brighter light, where it mixes ambient and flash light quite well. You just might need to reduce power a little to get the amount of fill to your taste. Out of doors the ratio of fill to ambient light is obviously quite low, so there's less drain on the flash unit.

Indoors in 'P' mode is a different matter - as soon as light levels drop, the camera will default to the safest hand holding shutter speed and the flash will become the main source of illumination putting out much more power with each shot.
 
torque22 said:
I have been using a fresh set of duracell each wedding
Click to expand...

thats your problem right there...duracell are ok for walkmans and torches, but not camera gear, the current demand is too high.
 
matty said:
thats your problem right there...duracell are ok for walkmans and torches, but not camera gear, the current demand is too high.
Click to expand...

I hope thats all the problem is. :)
Anyway, I will find out in 2weeks time at the next wedding.
 
You need the Canon Compact Battery Pack CP-E3, or even better a Quantum pack..
 
PapaLazarou said:
You need the Canon Compact Battery Pack CP-E3, or even better a Quantum pack..
Click to expand...

is that the beltclip one that holds bout 8 aa batteries?
 
ive used both 580 and 430 without problems, its more the recharge time. It also depends on how much power they are kicking out- if they are at full power then that won't help.

I've got 2600ma NiMH energiser batteries that seem to do a good job. I'm trying to use reflectors etc a lot more now too to make the most of natural light.
 
Just use rechargeable NIMH batteries of around 2700mah. Then they should be fine. The 20 shot warning probably refers to firing the flash at full power which I doubt it will be doing in ETTL with FEC set to -1.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I will try the 2700 batteries and report back :)
thanks once again to all that replied to my request for help.
 
I've had this! :D

Was shooting an indoor karting event and the flash stopped working consistantly and was very erratic. I thought it might be the 20max quick flash feature cutting in but no it was the batteries and funnily enuf they were Duracell. :bang:

I think the 20 max flash refers to machine gun mode, ie 20 frames at 6 or 10 frame per sec rather than say 20 frames taking one every 30secs. :thinking:
 
Ive had it too. At a wedding. I got very annoyed and changed batteries but to be honest I knew there was nothing wrong with the original ones.
 
Phew, all indications point to the batteries then....thats a relief.

just hope that this post will help other people avoid this scenario...it's so annoying when it happens.
 
glad you seem to have found the answer to your problem - just out of interest how many out of the 600 odd shots would you say a keepers ie not deleted before processing and how many do the B&G generally want? also curious to know how many shots the lead tog takes?
 
lead tog takes about 600 shots aswell.
all 1200 go onto contact sheet for B+G to pick photos for the album and framed pics.
I reduce the 1200 down to 600-800, process with pre set actions and a bit of curves, crop/resize dependant on the format of TV used by B+G, then create a slide show DVD.
 
CT said:
I suspect the problem is your style of shooting perhaps? Posing couples/groups etc in a more formal manner slows you down anyway. To be doing that many shots in rapid succession, you're obviously taking the more candid type of shots, and waaay too many of them by the sound of it. I'd be inclined to slow down and be a little more selective in the shots you're taking? :)
Click to expand...


:agree:
 
hehe, 1200!

We took a friends weddng a couple of weeks ago and between 2 of us, we took about 650 (bride & groom getting ready, through to last dance). I gave them a cd slideshow with 167 pictures on from which they are choosing their finals.

I agree, Duracell are pants and can't keep up even just using fill outside. I used just one set of 4 2500mh Energiser cheapies (£5.99 I think) all day! (Didn't use flash all the time though)
 
Alot of our pictures are similar but from different angle or perspective, give the customer choice. Although we might be giving them too much choice.

The slideshow DVD is not for selecting album pics, it has BW conversions,tonal layer images, pan and zoom effects, mini animation sequences from sets of images it is done with transition effects and background music of their choice, and documents the day in its entirity.
 
AndyBorzi said:
hehe, 1200!

We took a friends weddng a couple of weeks ago and between 2 of us, we took about 650 (bride & groom getting ready, through to last dance). I gave them a cd slideshow with 167 pictures on from which they are choosing their finals.
Click to expand...

That sounds more like what I would expect, I can't imagine sitting down trying to choose from 1200 shots. I didn't even take that many in two weeks in Cuba last summer!
 
PapaLazarou said:
You need the Canon Compact Battery Pack CP-E3, or even better a Quantum pack..
Click to expand...

yep this is the answer (unless you want to slow down- maybe worth thinking about)

if you need a really fast flash you need to team a metz flash(45 cl4) with the quantum turbo (not the compact) - you can then get 8fps for around 24 shots in 3 sec....
 
CT said:
I've never done a wedding with digital gear, I always shot one 36 exposure roll of film. Any more shots than that and they paid extra. I rarely shot more than 2 rolls of film. There's an obvious advantage with shooting more shots with digital just on a cost per shot basis, but I think you really need to ask yourself if you need to shoot that many shots. 600 shots covering a wedding seems nuts to me, and if you're going to be using flash for all or the bulk of the shots, you're going to challenge any flash unit. ;)
Click to expand...

You always shot a 36 exposure roll of film?

Wow, either you are a rediculously talented photographer who can produce perfect shots each time, or you are not covering much of any wedding. I have never met a couple that would be satisfied with 36 pictures.

I shoot about 1,500 images in an 8 hours wedding coverage. I take 36 shots of just the rings!!!
 
dking99 said:
You always shot a 36 exposure roll of film?

Wow, either you are a rediculously talented photographer who can produce perfect shots each time, or you are not covering much of any wedding. I have never met a couple that would be satisfied with 36 pictures.

I shoot about 1,500 images in an 8 hours wedding coverage. I take 36 shots of just the rings!!!
Click to expand...

You're really not getting it are you?

1500 shots on 35mm film equates to over 41 rolls of 36 exposure film. Have you any idea how much the processing on that lot alone would cost? - not to mention the time served pros who shot medium format, (that's like 10 or 12 shots per roll!)

36 completed 9X6 or 12X8 prints is a lot of prints. Of course it's easier to shoot more with digital these days, and it makes to sense to do so, up to a point, but 36 shots of the rings is just spraying and praying mate!

I never considered myself ridiculously talented - just competent, along with all the other pros who earned a living before digital, but you're definitely causing me to have second thoughts about it. :thinking:
 
Things in the brave new world are very different CT old bean. ;)

It still seems to me that without any reason to bracket shots, we should all be coming away from events with less shots than working with film but these phone number figures are the norm for a days capture now.

I've had canon flash heads for a few years and I had no idea about this issue.

I will confess though that before I learnt to say NO!! to anyone who even mentions a wedding, I had been known to shoot up to 3 rolls of film. ;)
 
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