5d mkiii vs 7d mk II - action and lowlight

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Rake

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well I am trying to choose between the 2 and the use would be for sport dog photographs.

Super fast action including jumps and changes in direction.

Light can be anything from full sun to partial dark.

Shooting speed 1/1200 minimum to freeze the action.

I have been given advice for both the full frame mkii and the crop mkii - quality vs speed - which to go for ?
 
I've had then both, so feel fairly qualified to comment. They're both capable in their own ways, so the way you use a camera, in what conditions, your lenses and the projected final output all play a part.

First up - what lenses do you have? If you have enough focal length for the 5d3 then it would be a strong favourite. If you have enough for the 7d2 but not the 5d3, then I'd still prefer the 5d3, as the base IQ is better and once you look into the 'crop factor' you will find a lot of it doesn't equate to the real world IQ. If you're having to crop on a 7d2, then you'll really have to hammer the pixels on the 5d3, so if that's the case, the 7d2 has the edge.

Next up, light conditions. Careful processing can get you respectable results up to ISO 3200 if you don't crop too heavily on the 7d2. However, the 5d3 beats it hands down in this respect - high ISO is superb and if you often need to go above ISO 1600 then the 5d3 has far more ability.

What is your intended output? Small prints at low ISO or web use with NR added will negate the IQ from the 5d3, but if you intend to print big, then its 5d3 all the way.

Shooting style - most people here will say 7d2 as it has a faster frame rate, but learning to time your shots will pay dividends here, and the speed of dogs around obstacles will often be too quick for the extra FPS to be of any real world use. Again, for me, it'd be the 5d3.

However, don't overlook a used 1d4. Superb camera, can still do fantastic work despite being a few years old, better than the 7d2 in my experience and whilst not quite the IQ of the 5d3, not far away at all. Available easily under budget - I'm sure there is one on here for about £650. Built like a tank, and can still produce the goods and leave some money left over

Mike
 
In terms of what you want to do 10fps from the 7d2 is the way to go the 5d3 is some years older now and to me I get good high ISO pictures with my 7d2. If you have ff lenses then the crop factor helps. With the new technology the 7d2 holds it corner well. I will add it is not a 1d camera it was a 7d replacement and should be taken that way. I have my 7d2 coupled with a sigma 150-600 for wildlife. Very pleased with the results
 
Thanks for the replies.

I have a nifty fifty for portrait and creative, and I have the 70-200 f4 L IS for sports.

Image quality required is high print quality.

I too was leaning in the direction of the 5d3 as I have been advised that IQ is everything.

I'll check out the spec of the 1d4

I was thinking of using a 2 x to give me 400mm effective but not sure if how the extender will affect IQ and apperture
 
5D MK3.

I just closed the curtains in the room I am in and its nothing even near what I would describe as partially dark, I can still see extremely well. Visibility is very good.

I set my camera to shutter 1/1250 that you say you need minimum.

I set lens to F2.8.

Guess what, I have to set ISO to 12,800 and I`m still 1.5 F stops underexposed.

A little darker then I would have to go to 26,000 ISO minimum.
 
Thanks gtg sounds like this will be the one.

I just hope that 6fps will be enough to capture expression in the action.

Now to find a well priced body hence my other thread
 
I have had both and sold the 7D2 as for indoor sports it was too noisy. I have the 5D3 and used it at Weston Airshow on Saturday. It has much better IQ. Perhaps, if you are still nose ring, you could hire one and see what you think? There will be quite a few second hand with the 5D4 out.
 
Chipper said:
I have had both and sold the 7D2 as for indoor sports it was too noisy. I have the 5D3 and used it at Weston Airshow on Saturday. It has much better IQ. Perhaps, if you are still nose ring, you could hire one and see what you think? There will be quite a few second hand with the 5D4 out.
Click to expand...
Nose ring?
 
^^^^^ re nose ring ~ methinks predictive text gone a tad off beam :LOL:

Can only surmise Chipper meant nosing (around)???
 
Rake said:
Thanks for the replies.

I have a nifty fifty for portrait and creative, and I have the 70-200 f4 L IS for sports.

Image quality required is high print quality.

I too was leaning in the direction of the 5d3 as I have been advised that IQ is everything.

I'll check out the spec of the 1d4

I was thinking of using a 2 x to give me 400mm effective but not sure if how the extender will affect IQ and apperture
Click to expand...

What camera do you have now.?

I had a 5Diii and loved it paired with a 135L and 17-40mm for portrait and property interiors but moved on with the type of photography and needed more reach so sold the lot. Regret the 135L going a lot.

My sons started sports and I like wildlife so I got another 7D and then a 1DMKiv, I upgraded the 7D to a MKii last year. so I have used all three and still have two.

Reach is your first concern if you are already thinking of a 2x converter you might as well bin the 5Diii idea. On a f4 lens you will be at f8 so will only have centre point focus and roughly half the speed of normal focus and if you want to shoot in dark conditions forget it. Just by using a crop camera you have the effect X1.6 and on a 1Div X1.3 whilst keeping f4.

I found with football in usual UK winter conditions I needed f2.8 a lot to keep 1/1000 or 1/1250 and ISO reasonably below 1600. F2.8 lenses are not cheap but most are quality, though heavier you do get lower ISO. You also get much better isolation so if you are looking at taking pictures like the one you posted f8 will not work.

When you say high print quality do you mean large print or small for individual owners to keep? The reason I ask is if they are small (less than A3) and for individuals most will not pick up on a bit of noise I had plenty of parents wanting photos of their kids which on close inspection were not great due to backgrounds or even undone boot laces let alone a little noise.

I never really pushed the ISO on my 5Diii as always used speedlights when the light was low. But if you are short on reach a 200mm it might not be ideal unless you want to fork out some more money on a longer lens which will not be cheap.

I have found the 7Dii more than capable with high ISO it works very well to 1600 and strangely mine has a sweet spot at 12,800 which I found out taking photos of owls at dusk which is a dark as you would want to go without flash especially at a dog show.

The 1DMKiv is also very capable it is my choice of camera for taking dragonflies in flight with settings like 1/1250 f8 ISO1600 at 300mm and still being able to crop by up to 100% without noise spoiling the shot.

If I was going to a dog show to take shots like you have posted with the choice of the 3 cameras being discussed and limited to only 50mm and 70-200mm f4 I would take the 7Dii regardless of light, fps, auto focus or high ISO solely for the reach. If I had the choice of a longer lens I would take the 1Div. If it was partial dark I would first go for a f2.8 lens then either 7Dii or 1Div depending on whether it was 200mm or 300mm.

You need to be able to focus close on the subject to be able to get detail needed for quality prints, ones you have to start doing big crops you lose pixels and quality.
 
PINNACLE said:
Reach is your first concern if you are already thinking of a 2x converter you might as well bin the 5Diii idea. On a f4 lens you will be at f8 so will only have centre point focus and roughly half the speed of normal focus and if you want to shoot in dark conditions forget it. Just by using a crop camera you have the effect X1.6 and on a 1Div X1.3 whilst keeping f4.

I found with football in usual UK winter conditions I needed f2.8 a lot to keep 1/1000 or 1/1250 and ISO reasonably below 1600. F2.8 lenses are not cheap but most are quality, though heavier you do get lower ISO. You also get much better isolation so if you are looking at taking pictures like the one you posted f8 will not work.
Click to expand...

Couple of very valid points.

I have owned both, am a massive full frame fan and iq geek.

Having said that I would still buy the 7d2 for this application. Expanding on the above, if you are not reach limited with the 7d2 but are with the 5d3 you would be cropping in with the 5d3 and losing about 1 stops worth of ISO performance. Or, you would walk closer with the 5d3 and (as you mention motion stopping sharpness is important this is also relevant) stop down to get sufficient depth of field and also need to raise your ISO to achieve same shutter speed.

Those points would reduce the noise advantage of the 5d3. Which is not there anyway in some respects. The 7d2 has a more random noise where the 5d3 is more pattern which is harder to clean up in post, that is with a correct exposure. When it comes to pushing files particularly shadows the 7d2 does this way better which is a free improvement in noise performance.

Another point is the buffer, the 7d2 is 10fps but crucially it seems to clear quicker, the 5d3 even with a fast CF card and no SD in place after a burst really slows down till you miss shots.

Where the 5d3 is better is the quality of the files, the colours and the way the highlights gently roll off compared to the harsh transition with the crop cameras. The 7d2 creates sharp files but there is something rough round the edges about them when pixel peeping compared to the 5d3 when you are not reach limited. I personally think action photography is about getting the shot, capturing the wow moments not about the final 100th of IQ, for me I'd appreciate that full frame image quality but your customers will appreciate results, which I'm sure the 7d2 will capture more of.
 
I reckon if you hang it off your nose ring it'll provide as much stability as a monopod :exit:
 
I have both cameras and photograph a lot of dogs in action as well as portraits. I ALWAYS grab the 7D2 for action shots as the AF is much better - it locks on much faster than the 5D3. I use the 5D3 for portraits and very low light (in the dark by firelight) shots. When I do use it for action I always get some good shots, but the hit rate is noticeably lower than with the 7D2, and obviously the FPS of the 7D2 is a great help with getting the perfect part of a stride, eyes open etc. My clients have never made a single negative comment about image quality with either camera. This was taken with the 7D2: IMG_1239.JPG
 
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