60D or 7D

woof woof said:
Richard, with respect that picture seems to show quite a bit of noise in the defuse areas. It's something that I've noticed before and it does worry me that my current and quite old 20D seems to be better in this respect than Canons latest offerings.

These are whole images with no noise reduction and to my eyes they and other shots I've taken at ISO 800 don't show the degree of grain that 7D's seem to.

f801.jpg


f800.jpg
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Here is a file at 800 iso with about 10% cropping on this one where the other had been cropped by over a third again no noise software run but a touch of sharpening the other image was only posted to show how well the canon AF coped in bad light i picked this file as it has a dark background which is more prone to showing noise hope this helps



Regards All

Richard
 
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My 7D has been faultless since I purchased it in early May. Honestly I think the majority of "errors" are from people completely overwhelmed with the sheer number of settings, adjustments etc...
 
I can't believe that you are comparing a 20D to a 7D, there's years of technology change between them.

Exposure 1/640
Aperture f/5.6
ISO Speed 1600

7D with 70-300 IS at 300mm


(Click on image for EXIF info)

No "noiseware" just a slight crop and a sharpen in PS. I'd like to see a 20D deliver that ISO performance at 1600 ISO

Steve
 
I think we are in danger of highjacking Johns thread he has asked which we think is the better camera the 7D or the 60D for bird and wildlife photography
so i think we should try and stay on topic.
And if people want to discuss other canon bodies and noise issues we should start a new thread. Once again sorry John
Regards All
Richard
 
lost said:
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This image, or one very similar, posted a while ago sold me on the 7D!

I've had mine for a little over a week and I have to say I've had 'soft' images and I've had stunning pin sharp images, same lens! I think 'user error' is the probable cause!

My view is that it takes a bit of thought to set it up to suit individual style and preference as there are considerbly more configuration options than I'm used to with my 40D. AF seems fast and sure even under quite low light conditions (L series lenses). High ISO is noisy but if it's that or not getting the shot .... a lot can be done in post (LR3 seems to clean them up quite well). This evening while watching a starling roost I shot more video than I took stills - impressed with the quality in what was very poor light & foggy conditions (though I guess 60D is equally capable this regard).

Not sure if this helps any. I know how long I agonised over buying the 7D, evenutually going for it because of the many good reports on autofocus, the built in off camera flash control, the high ISO & the video capability over my 40D. I also spoke to a pro motorsport photographer, a real old timer, who had traded down from his 1Ds to 7Ds as they were "as good if not better", and pointed to others around who had done the same (don't shoot me down on this - just relaying what was said!)

Good luck! :thinking:

Andy
 
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Jelster, I make no apology for thinking carefully before spending my hard earned money. Actually, I don't earn my money but that's beside the point :) I have a 20D so of course I'm gong to compare newer cameras to it.

Here's a 20D ISO 3200 at 200%. No noise reduction but backed off -1 exposure post capture. There seems to be plenty of detail despite it not being a high res camera. Actually I don't think that's even sharpened.

3200-200.jpg


I do realise that time and technology has moved on but I personally don't find the grain I see in 7D shots attractive and that has to be a part of the buying decision for me. That's just me though.

Hope the OP didn't mind the hijack. :)
 
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Just picked up my 7D yesterday, had one at launch but sold it 6 months ago to adopt M4/3, but couldn't live without a dslr.

Feels free to discuss anything 7D in the 'Owners thread'.

I spent months researching and took the oppurtunity to look at the 60D as well - for me, the higher fps, new autofocus, better build, wireless flash, slightly larger body and lens micro adjust were the reasons to get another 7D over anything else.
 
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bl0at3r said:
Just picked up my 7D yesterday, had one at launch but sold it 6 months ago to adopt M4/3, but couldn't live without a dslr.

Feels free to discuss anything 7D in the 'Owners thread'.

I spent months researching and took the oppurtunity to look at the 60D as well - for me, the higher fps, new autofocus, better build, wireless flash, slightly larger body and lens micro adjust were the reasons to get another 7D over anything else.
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Totally agree with that. One other thing i should mention me and my friend Rob put the 7D through it's paces against his Nikon D300s taking loads of images side by side 50mm against 50mm 105mm against 105mm and 300mm against 300mm the 105 was a sigma lens we both have one of those the general outcome was the files from the 7D were marginally better and im talking pixel peeping on a 24inch screen Rob agreed and he is a avid Nikon user.
Regards
Richard
 
"7D were marginally better and im talking pixel peeping"

I guess that's the biggest problem. These days we can look at pictures to a silly extent. If we can avoid getting too silly most of the "issues" just go away :)
 
vulcan2912 said:
:clap:(y)
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Off subject about 12 months ago i put a little test together for a group of photographers i know. I printed some images from these cameras D30, 350D,
5dmk1, 5dmk2, 1dmk2, 40D and a 7D and asked them to tell which camera had been used. The Prints were at A2 and some files had to be interpolated all were adjusted i hung them on the wall and put a line 48 inches from the wall there were 3 images per camera. No one could tell the difference and when we looked at what people had put down no one had scored above 40% i must be honest even i was surprised by the D30 files a 3 million pixel camera could still hold it's own at a decent viewing distance i think sometimes you have to ask yourself do i really need to change does my camera no longer do what i want it to:thinking: now when are canon going to release the 5D mk 3 :thinking: i really need that camera :D:p
Regards
Richard

:DHey im only human:p who said i had to follow my own advice :rules:
 
More pixels, bigger sensors,better glass, higher resolution monitors. No wonder we are all seeing bloody artifacts :LOL::LOL: They got us just where they want us, wanting to buy the next best thing :naughty: And me :shrug: guilty as charged :D Yes I upgraded to the 7D purely because of the reports of how good focusing was, and I had enough money put aside to get one. Tbh John imo either the 60D or 7D will turn out great images from what I have seen. I have never been one for pixel peeping and if I want a print done then it turns out fine. I wish there was a dedicated forum for people who want to pick fault with a bit of noise and let the rest of us get on and enjoy photography ;) The main thing is whatever you buy, get to know it, experiment with it, and enjoy it ;)
 
Last image
Taken when i was trying out the high iso this is not a great picture but it Printed out at A4 no problem ISO 6400 the image has been tweaked

 
daugirdas said:
Saying that every single 10D all the way to 60D have inadequate AF.
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Who's saying that?

My 40D is perfectly adequate for me shooting wildlife.

I think you're confusing 'inadequate' with 'not quite as good as some other AF systems'.
 
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I now have both cameras and have just returned from a trip to Churchill in the Canadian Arctic photographing polar bears.

Both coped with the harsh conditions pretty well (although I've found the joystick on the 7D can be temporarily disabled when it gets wet). Even the 60D coped when my the filter on my lens had a thick layer of ice on it. Image quality from both was brilliant too, the limiting factor on either is the glass. I'm amazed I can take perfectly decent pictures at 3200 ISO where on my old 40D 1600 ws pushing it.

However, from a handling perspective the 7D was massively superior, particularly given that I was using gloves throughout. The multiway controller on the 60D is inferior to the joystick on the 7D for selection of focus points, and the larger viewfinder in the latter was very noticeable. Also I found myself missing shots on the 60D because the buffer took longer to empty (this was using a decent class 10 SD card). Selecting video mode on the dial of the 60D was highly inconvenient which is a shame as the moveable screen is excellent.

I wouldn't want to be too harsh on the 60D because in its own right it can produce amazing results, and it you can get one for the right price it shouldn't be dismissed. I'd much rather have a 60D plus a decent lens like my 17-55 f/2.8 than the 7D with a cheap kit lens. However, if you can afford the 7D and are serious about photography, I wouldn't hestitate. I'm going to keep the 60D for the time being as a spare body but the 7D is a classic.
 
lost said:
It takes a while to get use to but the link i posted will help you get your head round it. The AF is considerably faster on the 7D over the 60d so the 7D is better for birds in flight . If you look on the Bird Forum there are a lot of people now using the 7D. I hope this info helps if you want i can send you sequences of shots taken with the 7D all sharp no auto focus issues but quality glass does help with the AF
Regards
Richard
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Thanks Richard that would be great and much appreciated...(y)


John
 
This has helped me a lot. Thanks for starting the thread. 7d on my list for Christmad:)
 
u8myufo said:
More pixels, bigger sensors,better glass, higher resolution monitors. No wonder we are all seeing bloody artifacts :LOL::LOL: They got us just where they want us, wanting to buy the next best thing :naughty: And me :shrug: guilty as charged :D Yes I upgraded to the 7D purely because of the reports of how good focusing was, and I had enough money put aside to get one. Tbh John imo either the 60D or 7D will turn out great images from what I have seen. I have never been one for pixel peeping and if I want a print done then it turns out fine. I wish there was a dedicated forum for people who want to pick fault with a bit of noise and let the rest of us get on and enjoy photography ;) The main thing is whatever you buy, get to know it, experiment with it, and enjoy it ;)
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Well said Rich....:clap: :clap: (y)

John
 
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