7D and 1DmkIII comparison

EMA747

EMA747

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Andy
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I got a second hand 1DmkIII a few days ago and have been deciding which out of that and my 7D to keep. I was just doing a quick very rough test this evening of the two and came up with the results below.

Both using the same settings on both cameras. No processing other than 100% crop then convert to jpeg in CS5.

7D
4727970907_79e13cdf57_b.jpg


1DmkIII
4728618922_2f32f4baa0_b.jpg


As I said not a very good test but the 7D image seems to show more detail and the colours look more realistic. 1DmkIII seems to be a bit softer than the 7D.

Another thing I noticed when shooting some aviation in AI-servo AF the other day that the 7D produces much sharper images when the same settings are used on both cameras. The 1D seemed to produce more out of focus shots too. Strange as it's a 57XXXX serial number and should be ok. Planes landing are fast(ish) but not exactly in the same league as shooting football or athletics or something. I would have thought the 1D could cope with aviation.
 
My 40D copes with avaiation...

What glass and settings were used, and can we see some examples.
 
c_robinson said:
My 40D copes with avaiation...

What glass and settings were used, and can we see some examples.
Click to expand...
I was using Canon 100-400 L glass. Settings were f8 which gave around 1/400 min.

As for custom settings. I had AF tracking default (medium), C FnIII-8 set to 2 (surrounding AF assist points). All others in C FnIII left on default. These are the settings that work on my 7D and it gets pin sharp images at the same loaction, same glass, same weather and light conditions.
For a landing plane coming at me then going side on I usually shoots about 8-10+ images. The 7D seems to get pretty much all of them pin sharp where as the 1D seems to get half at best but sometimes 1 sharp one in amongst the rest out of focus. The sharp ones are still not as sharp as the 7D ones.
 
With it being a 2nd hand do a full setting reset in the menus. On the one I picked up I could not get a burst of more than 3 shots no matter what I put the settings too. I only got this problum to clear by doing a clear custom settings option. As to your issues look at the micro focus setting as the privous owner might have set them to a lens they had, also do some tests that rule out camera shake and user error. Camera on tripod with mirror locked up and on timer or remote tigger. I know the first few times I used my 1Ds I was thinking it was not good till I got use to wieght.
 
Hey man,

Are you converting the raw files for each or jpeg from camera? 1d3 raw files i always find are very soft compared to my 1d2 and 40d i had previously but they do take a good sharpening quite well. The Jpegs though are usually very good striaght out of the camera.

Just to let you know i cleared all the cf and user settings before sending out. What is the firmware version on that one? Managed to find an update to v1.3 last night for my other one (was 1.2.5).
Although after doing a bit of reading up, it seems that v1.2.3 was the best firmware version for Ai-servo shooting???

I found it ok with the BIF shots, stringed together a good few sequences although i may have had a few tweaks in cf menu. Check this out http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos1dm3af/index.html
 
I'd certainly check that there isn't a microadjust setting stored by the previous owner.
Regarding the sample images the 1d mkIII must be a bigger crop than the 7D image because the images are identical and yet the crop factor of the 2 camera's are different
 
Ziploc said:
With it being a 2nd hand do a full setting reset in the menus. On the one I picked up I could not get a burst of more than 3 shots no matter what I put the settings too. I only got this problum to clear by doing a clear custom settings option. As to your issues look at the micro focus setting as the privous owner might have set them to a lens they had, also do some tests that rule out camera shake and user error. Camera on tripod with mirror locked up and on timer or remote tigger. I know the first few times I used my 1Ds I was thinking it was not good till I got use to wieght.
Click to expand...

id agree with this, give it a reset.

while ive never used a 7D so cant offer a comparison but the 1Dmk3 AF is mindblowingly fast and accurate (i find).

what ISO are those shots at?

what lens(es) are you using also?
 
The shots do look very high ISO, what were they?...more importantly though; my wife has asked if you could kindly cease taking photographs of our bedroom window.
 
CRITICAL! The first thing to do with the 1DMKIII is to turn down the tracking speed - default is in the middle - go for one or two notches to the left.

There are loads of settings for AF and they need to be tuned correctly -

This YouTube video looks good although I've not watched it in full - there is also a Canon AF tuning guide somewhere but I can't find it at the moment.
http://therighteye.wordpress.com/2008/04/09/canon-1d-mark-iii-custom-function-settings/

I'd google AF settings and do some reading.

Be prepared for a learning curve with the 1D3 and don't use servo AF in low light on static subjects.

Phil
 
Just to add that as I understand it the main AF problem with un-fixed early 1DMKIII's only showed itself after long runs of high-speed shutter bursts - something went out of whack as the temperature warmed up - I don't expect any issues you are experiencing are anything to do with that.

Phil
 
I only have the 7d, the I'm suprised if that is the best the 1D3 can do.

(Not forgetting my 5D2)
 
I had a 7D which I used for football. I only shot 3 games with it as I was unimpressed by the sharpeness I was getting when used with the 300 f4. Also the low ISO performance didn't impress me much, must have been something to do with all those pixels :thinking:

here's a sample of what I was getting with this combo
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=223069

I have since sold this combination and purchased a used Mk III with a 300 2.8IS and I am much happier with the combo. So much so I have added a second MkIII.

I find this body to have much better low ISO performance. The files look superb and when shot at ISO 3200 they scrub up nicely in Lightroom.

Here's a set I took under very dark conditions with the 1D3 and 300 2.8
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=230032

I find the AF tracking to be great and I too have this set at a slower speed (-1 in my case)

Hope this waffle helps :thumbs:
 
OK thanks a lot for the comments.

Both images are at ISO 1600 and shot with a 100-400 L, and they were both with one shot aft not AI-servo. It was the aviation ones I took with AI-servo.

@ - c_robinson. I can't really show the aviation ones as this forum only allows 800px and the blur/OOF only really shows up at 100%. Also I can't get it to allow links to file hosting sites, if it did I could upload the original raw files.

@ - paul_g. I am not sure how to crop/resize them to make an equal comparsion. I put up a thread about this but got no replies.

@ philthejuggler - I'll give that AF tracking speed thing a go. I've played with it on my 7D and find the default/middle setting is ok. I guess the 1D might be different though.


I also tried the micro adjust with the camera on tripod/timer release and mirror lock-up. Again it's hard to work out which is best given that I don't know how to compare 7D and 1D files like for like. :shrug:
 
EMA747 said:
OK thanks a lot for the comments.

Both images are at ISO 1600 and shot with a 100-400 L, and they were both with one shot aft not AI-servo. It was the aviation ones I took with AI-servo.

@ - c_robinson. I can't really show the aviation ones as this forum only allows 800px and the blur/OOF only really shows up at 100%. Also I can't get it to allow links to file hosting sites, if it did I could upload the original raw files.

@ - paul_g. I am not sure how to crop/resize them to make an equal comparsion. I put up a thread about this but got no replies.

@ philthejuggler - I'll give that AF tracking speed thing a go. I've played with it on my 7D and find the default/middle setting is ok. I guess the 1D might be different though.


I also tried the micro adjust with the camera on tripod/timer release and mirror lock-up. Again it's hard to work out which is best given that I don't know how to compare 7D and 1D files like for like. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Although the resolution may be higher on the 7D the 1D3 has an astounding sensor - sharp images with rich colours. Many people recommend slowing the AF down for improved tracking.

You'll love it once you're used to it!

Phil
 
A couple of images taken with a 7d

First 1 with a 300mm f4 i.s locked on and stuck like glue i could post frame after frame pinsharp


2nd taken with 600mm f4i.s again frame after frame sharp


3rd taken with 600mm f4i.s again frame after frame sharp handheld with reeds blowing in front of subject


And look great printed at A1 & A2 funny enough i've had no complaints from clients over the images
I like the 7d that much i just bought a second
Regards
Richard
 
EMA747 said:
I got a second hand 1DmkIII a few days ago and have been deciding which out of that and my 7D to keep. I was just doing a quick very rough test this evening of the two and came up with the results below.

Both using the same settings on both cameras. No processing other than 100% crop then convert to jpeg in CS5.
Click to expand...

Both photos look alarmingly soft to me, but 1D looks less noisy. Can you test your camera and lens combo by switching to live view and manually focusing? Does that improve the resolution? When things are pin sharp with L zooms and most primes, they also look pin sharp at 100%.
 
Do have a look at the settings on the 1DIII. It's capable of a lot better results than that at 1600 ISO.
 
daugirdas said:
Both photos look alarmingly soft to me, but 1D looks less noisy. Can you test your camera and lens combo by switching to live view and manually focusing? Does that improve the resolution? When things are pin sharp with L zooms and most primes, they also look pin sharp at 100%.
Click to expand...
Not sure if this exaplains the soft but it could be because they were both at 1/60. I know I should be shooting faster than that with a 400mm lens but it had got too dark for a good shutter speed. :shake:
 
These are examples of my aviation shots. All are at shutter speed of at least 1/400 so blur should not be much of a problem. All are 100% crops.

First set are from the 1D.

Not the Ice Ice Baby letter are a bit blurred.
4731104983_54926761e6_b.jpg


In same shot burst (high speed) as the above image.
4731105421_e860b9d71f_b.jpg


This one seems pretty sharp.
4731747060_f783ed6f73_b.jpg


Start Air titles seem sharpish, but Freighter ones seem blurry.
4731105655_a79978338e_b.jpg



These next two are from my 7D with same lens, settings, shutter speeds etc and very similar weather and light.

4731756200_03fc532fe1_b.jpg


4731114055_112db56950_b.jpg



The ones off the 7D just seem much sharper to me.
 
EMA747 said:
I got a second hand 1DmkIII a few days ago and have been deciding which out of that and my 7D to keep. I was just doing a quick very rough test this evening of the two and came up with the results below.

Both using the same settings on both cameras. No processing other than 100% crop then convert to jpeg in CS5.

7D
4727970907_79e13cdf57_b.jpg


1DmkIII
4728618922_2f32f4baa0_b.jpg


As I said not a very good test but the 7D image seems to show more detail and the colours look more realistic. 1DmkIII seems to be a bit softer than the 7D.

Another thing I noticed when shooting some aviation in AI-servo AF the other day that the 7D produces much sharper images when the same settings are used on both cameras. The 1D seemed to produce more out of focus shots too. Strange as it's a 57XXXX serial number and should be ok. Planes landing are fast(ish) but not exactly in the same league as shooting football or athletics or something. I would have thought the 1D could cope with aviation.
Click to expand...

Andy, these can't both be 100% crops as they're both showing the window the same size. What you need to do is open the file from each camera at 100% and then crop a section from each of 800 pixels or less ( for showing at 1:1 here)

The window should be considerably bigger at 1:1 from the 7D.
 
@ neil_g - The person who sold it to me did a rest (see his post below).

thompo said:
Hey man,

Are you converting the raw files for each or jpeg from camera? 1d3 raw files i always find are very soft compared to my 1d2 and 40d i had previously but they do take a good sharpening quite well. The Jpegs though are usually very good striaght out of the camera.

Just to let you know i cleared all the cf and user settings before sending out. What is the firmware version on that one? Managed to find an update to v1.3 last night for my other one (was 1.2.5).
Although after doing a bit of reading up, it seems that v1.2.3 was the best firmware version for Ai-servo shooting???

I found it ok with the BIF shots, stringed together a good few sequences although i may have had a few tweaks in cf menu. Check this out http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos1dm3af/index.html
Click to expand...
 
I use 1dmk3's for pretty much all my togging. Can't say I have seen results like that from mine - well not through the cameras fault :lol:.

The 1dmk3 is not a camera that can be used straight out the box, it needs set up to your liking and also the subject before it starts producing great results. I spent about 2 weeks of daily use tweaking, adjusting, resetting and starting again before I was happy. I have also noticed that the camera settings sometime need tweaked for shooting different things. I have a different custom setting for birds in flight as I have for more static images and a different one again for more landscape type stuff.

Put it back to default, spend some time tweaking it and hopefully you will see some improvements.
 
Well the 7D does appear sharper, but much as I'm a huge fan of the 7D and to be fair to the 1DMK3, both of these images would benefit from a sharpen, and I'm sure they'd both produce acceptably sharp prints at A3 or larger, but you don't want to confuse sharpness with pixel resolution, where the 7D has a massive advantage when viewing the images at 1:1 .

The following images are both 800 pixels crops from your full size (1:1) versions on Flickr.

1DMK3
4732524279_58c8f60417_b.jpg


7D
4732524503_4b68317f20_b.jpg


This should be quite a dramatic demo of the real advantage of the 7D for wildlife photography. Imagine the blue car is a small bird and the advantage is obvious.

That same advantage becomes a disadvantage if you want the wider FOV of the 1DMK3, so it's really up to you to decide what you shoot most and make a choice based on that.

Or just keep both! :shrug:
 
Did you shoot these through a closed window?
 
@ CT - I didn't sharpen them as I wanted to show them exactly as they came out of the camera (apart from converting to jpeg that is). ;)


I agree with what you say about pluses and minuses to both. I love the MUCH better screen of the 7D and the ability to crop more than the 1D. It's quite useful for aviation as you can imagine.

On the 1D I love the feel of it, the much lower noise than the 7D, it's higher burst rate and just generally it feels much more like a body that will last (higher max shutter count too).

What I am thinking is maybe wait a while then sell both. Then if I also get some extra money I could put it all together and get a 1DmkIV. That body seems to have the best bits of both the 1DmkIII and the 7D all rolled into one. :thumbs:
 
Beagletorque said:
Did you shoot these through a closed window?
Click to expand...
Yes I did.
However the difference in sharpness is about the same as the aviation pics and various other ones I have taken outdoors. ie there seems to be about that amount of difference in any given situation.
 
EMA747 said:
What I am thinking is maybe wait a while then sell both. Then if I also get some extra money I could put it all together and get a 1DmkIV. That body seems to have the best bits of both the 1DmkIII and the 7D all rolled into one.
Click to expand...

Well the six million pixel increase from the 1D3 to the 1D4 is very significant, so I can see why you might be attracted to the 1D4 as an all-rounder. An 800 pixel crop of the same image from the 1D4 would fall midway between the two above images, so it's undoubtedly making the 1D4 more attractive for reach/cropping than earlier versions.

I'll stick with the 7D for what I mostly do until Canon make a 1 Series body with a 1.6X crop. Canon please note! :rules:
 
I like the 1.3x on the 1D series. It actually makes my 100-400 more usable for aviation. Though I can see how 1.6x is much better for birds etc.

The only problem is......the 1DmkIV is £3500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
CT said:
I'll stick with the 7D for what I mostly do until Canon make a 1 Series body with a 1.6X crop. Canon please note! :rules:
Click to expand...

Now that's an idea and a half. A 7D sensor in a 1D4 body could be a winner. They could call it the 2D... or perhaps 1Da, or something.
 
Sorry to hear your not getting on with it :(

Have you tried any micro-adjust on your lens? Could be thats it spot on with the 7d but a bit out on the 1d???

Heres a few 100% crops from the originals (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thompo5015/sets/72157624166843545/) i shot of BIF for you. Shot in AI servo, i think i used ISO400 and center AF point shot with 300 f4L (not IS) and no micro adjust applied. May have had the focus sensitivity turned down to keep it tracking the right bird.

First is not sharpened, 2nd is USM, 1.3px, 68%, threshold 1px
8J4Y2397-100-no_usm.jpg

8J4Y2397-100--usm_6813px_th1px.jpg


8J4Y2482-100-no_USM.jpg

8J4Y2482-100usm_6813px_th1px.jpg
 
I recently moved from a mk 2 to a mk 3 for some reason. When I went through my first lot of macro pictures they all appeared soft. The lens required +7 of microadjustment. Bear in mind that the mk 2 does not even HAVE microadjustment and the lens/camera combo was sharp as. In other words you would be surprised at what weirdness can crop up.
 
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