7D or 100-400mm

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Ok so i've got about £1000 to waste. I currently have the canon 400D and it has served me well for the time i've had it. Over the time i have used it i found that it is not very good in some areas. The following in particular

- Night time photography - I would never dare try to shoot anything above ISO 400 as its just not good enough above 400. I know that noise can be removed but i just dont have time to remove noise in post-processing so i need to get something that gives me better quality at higher ISO.

- The viewfinder on the camera is so small that sometimes i shoot a preview shot first to check on the LCD

- fps and focusing speed - The fps and focusing speed is just too slow for birding or sport photography.

At the moment i have the following lenses

Canon 15-85mm
Canon 17-85mm (Soon to go on sale)
Canon 50mm 1.8
Canon 100mm macro (non IS)
Canon 70-200mm f4 (non IS)

I have decided that i should upgrade the camera. I was originally thinking of getting the 60D because of its 'bendy' LCD screen but i decided that if i am upgrading i should get the latest camera so that it lasts for a bit longer as i cant afford to upgrade every year. I would like to buy a camera that i can keep for at least 4/5 years just like the 400D. I can achieve the 'bendy' LCD with the 7D buy connecting it to a laptop or a netbook or even an Iphone (i hope!).

The problem is that i've always dreamt of the 100-400mm (i blame it on the samples i see on the
"Pets, Plants and Trips to the Zoo" section of this forum) and i am wondering that maybe i will be better off getting the lens instead of the camera. I want to get the lens because i've suddenly developed an interest in wildlife and macro. I have thought about other brands like the Sigmas but i would prefer to buy a lens that (if i want to) i can sell off at nearly the sam price i paid for and this is only possible with the Canons.

I would prefer not to sell the 400D as i would like to keep it in my car so that i've always got a camera with me. My workplace is about 5 minutes walk to 'Fleet Nature Reserve' in Hampshire and would love to spend lunch times there with a 100-400mm lens. I am also reluctant to sell the 70-200mm as its my favorite lens for doing portraits in crowds (carnivals, demonstrations etc)

I've got a couple of options

1. Get the 7D + 1.4x extender for the 70-200mm
2. Get the 7D and avoid visiting the "Pets, Plants and Trips to the Zoo" forums section

What are your thoughts?
 
It sounds like there are actual reasons to upgrade your camera whereas the 100-400 is just a nice to have. Upgrade the camera and then save for the lens after that. I went from a 40d to a 7d and the differences are huge. It will solve your ISO problem (a well exposed pic at 6400 isn't too noisy and is easily fixed) and the viewfinder is so clear you may have trouble using another camera after!
 
I have the 7D and the 100-400.

The 7D gets used everytime I take a pic, the 100-400 gets used very occassionally.

Seems to me you should upgrade what you are going to use the most.
 
menthel said:
It sounds like there are actual reasons to upgrade your camera whereas the 100-400 is just a nice to have. Upgrade the camera and then save for the lens after that. I went from a 40d to a 7d and the differences are huge. It will solve your ISO problem (a well exposed pic at 6400 isn't too noisy and is easily fixed) and the viewfinder is so clear you may have trouble using another camera after!
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I will add get thr 1.5x extnder as well.
Jim has take the words right out of my mouth so therefore :agree:
 
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Thirded on 7D.

We're just in the process of ordering a 7D for Ms arad85. It will complement the 5D2 I have (for any action shots) and only be a stop or so down on image quality as far as noise is concerned. We will use it with:

15-85
nifty 50
100mm F2.8L IS macro
70-200 F4L
Kenko Pro300 1.4x

Pretty close to what you've got ;) I think it will be the ideal combination for her (and me occasionally) for many years to come.

The only planned upgrades are a 5D3 (assuming the autofocus is 7D-like) when they come down in price and possibly a 100-400. Unless we get seriously into primes, I think we're done.
 
hashcake said:
Jim has take the words right out of my mouth so therefore :agree:
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Darran, lost for words! :eek: ;)

OP- here is a shot of mine in very suboptimal conditions (the London Aquarium to be precise) at iso 6400. As you can see the focus was spot on and there is not a huge amount of noise.

 
Not an easy one to anwer but in your position I would get the lens first and then upgrade the body:)
It does depend how much you want to get into photographing birds
I have got the 70-200 and the 100-400 and use the 100-400 the most
Pete
 
Another option, sell the 400D as well as the 17-85 and get a used 50D?
It would be a vast improvment over the 400D.
I've got a 400-800L and I now want a 7D but I am in no hurry.
 
hashcake said:
Another option, sell the 400D as well as the 17-85 and get a used 50D?
It would be a vast improvment over the 400D.
I've got a 400-800L and I now want a 7D but I am in no hurry.
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I will let you try my 7d in 2 weekend's time. You will be out the next day buying one! ;)
 
menthel said:
Darran, lost for words! :eek: ;)
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Makes a change from me saying where I am going shove your 150-500 eh? :D

menthel said:
OP- here is a shot of mine in very suboptimal conditions (the London Aquarium to be precise) at iso 6400. As you can see the focus was spot on and there is not a huge amount of noise.
Click to expand...

It' still quite good Jim, it's the high ISO capabilities of the 7D that is drawing me towards it.
 
menthel said:
I will let you try my 7d in 2 weekend's time. You will be out the next day buying one! ;)
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I wish mate, I wont be able to afford an upgrade for a while.
 
hashcake said:
Makes a change from me saying where I am going shove your 150-500 eh? :D



It' still quite good Jim, it's the high ISO capabilities of the 7D that is drawing me towards it.
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Hehe. The 7d's high ISO capability really is superb. Coming from a 40d the difference really is absolutely huge and the usability at the high end really is good. The only problem with the piccy above is my father in law's daft beret and his choice of neckwear. Although the oly is more acceptable than the cravats I have seen him in!
 
option 1 I reckon. You mention getting the latest camera, but the 60D is actually newer than the 7D.

To help you decide, I've had the 100-400mm and it is a stonking lens, no doubt. But its heavy and needs quite a bit of light to get good pics imo. You could use a 1.4x TC on the 70-200mm f/4 but this will be quite slow.

I can see your quandry...the 100-400 would be a good option but (again imo) you need to push the ISO up to get a good shutter speed and your current body wont really let you.

So I still say...option 1.5........which is the same as option 1 but with a view to adding the 100-400mm at a later date :D
 
Thank you all. Having thought about this again, i have decided that the 100-400mm can wait. As some have suggested the 100-400mm is not a lens you use everyday so it makes sense to upgrade something that i will be using most of the time.

I will now upgrade to a 7D. Hopefully ill get a good deal from somewhere :)
 
manualfocus-g said:
Quick question, have you handled the 7D yet? It's a fantastic camera but a lot heavier than the 400D.
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Shut up!

Yes, it's heavier, but it balances well with good lenses, so unless you're very weak wristed it shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Jackwow said:
Shut up!

Yes, it's heavier, but it balances well with good lenses, so unless you're very weak wristed it shouldn't be a problem.
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My OH has problems with the onset of arthritis in the first and second index fingers on her right hand. We have just been down the large lens on a small body route and found that it's easier to hold a bigger/heavier body with a heavier lens on the 7D than it is on a 450D due to the bigger and longer grip.
 
Just thought i better point out the AF is better on the 7d then any other of the bodies mentioned and if you are doing birds in flight the better AF is a must. A second hand 7D is about £800 and a good second hand 100-400 is about £750 i might be tempted to go for the 300f4 i.s as its af is faster and add a 1.4 convertor at a later date the 300 f4 i.s is about £700 the 400mm 5.6 is also very good but no i.s

1302.jpg


Taken with a Canon 7D and a 300mm f4 i.s

Regards

Richard
 
I agree on the 7D.. streets ahead of the 400D and you have good glass to leverage it...
 
Jackwow said:
Shut up!

Yes, it's heavier, but it balances well with good lenses, so unless you're very weak wristed it shouldn't be a problem.
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No I will not shut up, this is a forum. Learn some manners.

It's a valid point that someone who's used to a much lighter body might struggle with a heavier one, especially since the OP would like to use some longer, and heavier lenses with it, and particularly if they are likely to do a lot of walking with it round their neck.
 
I have all the of the components you mentioned, 400D 100/400 and 7D. I bought the 100/400 about a month after the 400D as I was interested to take pictures of race cars on track. I got many good images from the combination in sports and wild life. A lens if probably (proven by some accounts) a more critical element of IQ than the body but the 7D has other advantages like better ISO capability. If when I got the 7D I was told I had to give up the 100/400 I would not have done it. The usefulness of the lens is to important to me for my enjoyment (not a pay check enjoyment) of the hobby. Only you know if you need more reach from a lens or a faster body (BTW you probably know the 7D is the most advanced Canon body - albeit "Semi Pro" on paper it out performs 1D MkIII ). Personally I have, since buying the 400D, focused on building a collection of quality glass as glass is more likely to contribute to an image than the body. You can get great images off a 400D with L glass and potentially with out L quality. In contrast, for example, the 1DsIV with non L glass would not perform as well as a combination(in general terms). The 7D falls some where in the middle. Hope this help and I'll stop rambling now.
 
DucDuc said:
(BTW you probably know the 7D is the most advanced Canon body - albeit "Semi Pro" on paper it out performs 1D MkIII ). Personally I have, since buying the 400D, focused on building a collection of quality glass as glass is more likely to contribute to an image than the body. You can get great images off a 400D with L glass and potentially with out L quality. In contrast, for example, the 1DsIV with non L glass would not perform as well as a combination(in general terms). The 7D falls some where in the middle. Hope this help and I'll stop rambling now.
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Sorry, but I don't really believe this is true. The 1D IV is more advanced that the 7D (1DsIV doesn't exist) and has a higher quality sensor.

But you are right, good glass is important (doesn't have to be L though). One thing though, the high ISO (1600-6400) is very usable on the 7D / 60D / 550D / 600D and is a very, very good reason to upgrade an older body IMO.
 
manualfocus-g said:
Sorry, but I don't really believe this is true. The 1D IV is more advanced that the 7D (1DsIV doesn't exist) and has a higher quality sensor.

But you are right, good glass is important (doesn't have to be L though). One thing though, the high ISO (1600-6400) is very usable on the 7D / 60D / 550D / 600D and is a very, very good reason to upgrade an older body IMO.
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Apologies I think I got my D's S's IIIs and IVs mixed up:lol:. The full frame 1 won't match 7D in some areas performance. 1 Series obviously have other advantages but the 7D is a very advanced body even nearly two years in service. Also agree with your ISO comment. I would add that the 400D on a long exposure, night time on a tripod, can give low noise quality results. Subject for imaging is the question, is it moving?
 
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