A blatant attempt to trap motorists?

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Cobra said:
We have similar her too and you can bet your life once they come down
( they are usually in place for about a month) within the next month or two
there is a mobile speed camera
within a hundred or so yards of that point
exactly as happened in the area that I described in my OP
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The signs here have been up for at least a year. I think they are permanent.


Steve.
 
Here's some info from the Scottish government site, the linked page is long and a bit jargonised in places but contains a lot of info. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/08/17977/24939

Firstly, are speed cameras effective?
2.37 The introduction of additional speed cameras in Glasgow was evaluated by Campbell and Stradling (2001). Prior to any form of camera installation, 64% of vehicles were exceeding the posted speed limit at the five 30 mph intended camera sites. This figure dropped to 37% with the introduction of camera housings. After a further three months, in October 2000, by which time white roadway gridlines had been added and the cameras had just begun operating (flashing), 23% of vehicles were exceeding the posted speed limit.

2.38 Hooke et al (1996) looked at the effectiveness of almost 500 speed camera sites in 10 UK police forces and found the installation of fixed-site speed cameras reduced accidents by 28% and lowered speeds by an average of 4.2 mph. Mackie (1998) found speed cameras effective around the camera site, producing reductions of around 5 mph in mean and 85 th percentile speeds.

Eight most common reasons given for speeding

Unintentional
In a hurry (e.g. to collect a child at school)
Being 'forced' to speed (by someone tailgating me)
The limit is wrongly set for this location (based on experience of similar roads with higher limits)
My modern car can stop more quickly than those on the roads at the time the limit was set, therefore my speeding is safe
The same limit should not apply at all times (the empty road, late at night)
The limit does not apply to me because I am an above-average driver
My speeding is acceptable because it is not a lot over the limit and others abuse it more flagrantly.

When asked to rank eight crimes in order of seriousness, doing 50 in a 30 zone was ranked last behind vandalising a phone box.

1 injuring a pedestrian while driving carelessly

2 driving after drinking too much

3 burgling from a house while the owners are away

4 driving after disqualification by a court

5 vandalising a telephone box

6 driving through a red traffic light

7 shoplifting from a supermarket

8 driving at 50 mph in a 30 mph limit
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Do you have any numbers on non-fatal accidents? Would be interesting to see if it was still such a low proportion.
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Yes, excess speed (which isn't necessarily speeding) was recorded by the DfT as the cause of 5% of non-fatal injuries. Alcohol was blamed for 460 road deaths, which equated to 16%, which means the figure quoted of 1000 deaths as a result of speeding would be around 30%, which doesn't tally with the government figures.
 
Steve Smith said:
Locally, we have recently had a lot of interactive signs put up. They are solar powered and display your speed in LEDs as you approach them. In green up to the limit and red above the limit.

Steve.
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I think these should be fixed to the back of speed cameras.

They remind you of the limit and allow you to correct your speed.......

they point out it's an area of safety concern.......


and if your speeding & you don't notice a flashing sign you deserve to get knicked :D
 
mrgubby said:
I think these should be fixed to the back of speed cameras.

They remind you of the limit and allow you to correct your speed.......

they point out it's an area of safety concern.......


and if your speeding & you don't notice a flashing sign you deserve to get knicked :D
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Excellent point
that would be "nearer" the remit reduce speed "you have been warned" (y)
 
2.38 Hooke et al (1996) looked at the effectiveness of almost 500 speed camera sites in 10 UK police forces and found the installation of fixed-site speed cameras reduced accidents by 28% and lowered speeds by an average of 4.2 mph. Mackie (1998) found speed cameras effective around the camera site, producing reductions of around 5 mph in mean and 85 th percentile speeds.

I am not actually questioning the validity of fixed camera's that is a totally separate "argument"
From the quotes its plain to see they have reduced speeding and accidents,over a given period
I am just purely talking about covert operations to catch motorist speeding. Purely to bump up "targets" and yes they do have them certainly in T/V
I have that from the horses mouth,
and increase revenue
 
I realise that fixed cameras are ot for his thread but I thought the results were interesting nonetheless.
 
Ok, can't be arsed to reply to most things on this thread, as i cant be arsed with the politics. But to answer the original question, i asked my mate who like i said earlier is a traffic cop. They do not need to have Hi-vis when doing speed checks (although they need to be in a safe location), they dont need to wear Hi-vis or be warrying there hat to stop you, although they wear Hi-vis when dealing with things like car crashes or working on the side of the motorway.
 
russdaz said:
........ But to answer the original question, i asked my mate who like i said earlier is a traffic cop. They do not need to have Hi-vis when doing speed checks (although they need to be in a safe location), they dont need to wear Hi-vis or be warrying there hat to stop you, although they wear Hi-vis when dealing with things like car crashes or working on the side of the motorway.
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Fairy nuff (y)
they were certainly in a safe location ( hiding in the shadows as per O/P)
My concern would also be when they step out into the road to stop the "offending" motorist.
They were on my "off side" making them cross the road to stop anyone
That sounds a little "dodgy" ( Ok un-safe) to me also
 
In a nutshell... it seems to me that any kind of "covert" speed trap is a revenue collection and a "high viz" type is genuinely trying to get you to slow down for safety issues.

I have no argument at all with keeping to speed limits. Certainly I have some argument as to whether a particular limit is justifiable for a particular stretch of road (some are just ludicrously low) but I will try and keep to it. I do think that this is becoming much more of a political issue, and I really can't tell if "they" are genuinely trying to save lives or just rip us off for more money?

And just for the record... I've never been done for speeding, which doesn't mean I haven't ever done it, I'm human after all... so rumour has it anyway ;)
 
Cobra said:
Fairy nuff (y)
they were certainly in a safe location ( hiding in the shadows as per O/P)
My concern would also be when they step out into the road to stop the "offending" motorist.
They were on my "off side" making them cross the road to stop anyone
That sounds a little "dodgy" ( Ok un-safe) to me also
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Yeah during the conversion we had i did bring that up, his answer was that, they should be atleast as visible as any-one walking down the road.

Dont forget the guys with the speed camera on this ocasion are unlikely to actually stop you at that location, it'l be a case of getting it in the post, or if your going that fast if there cops a tug in the car, which they will then be used to indicate to other road users of a hazard. i.e your car on the side of the road.
 
Bill Roberts said:
I do think that this is becoming much more of a political issue, and I really can't tell if "they" are genuinely trying to save lives or just rip us off for more money?

And just for the record... I've never been done for speeding, which doesn't mean I haven't ever done it, I'm human after all... so rumour has it anyway ;)
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I am trying to steer this away from "politics"
and yes some speed limits are too slow and yes I have gone "over the top"
but on open roads not built up areas where ( in most cases) 30 is there for a reason and in its self sometimes is too fast
 
mrgubby said:
Yorkshire man Living in Lancashire, hmmmmmm, sounds a bit iffy to me :D






;)
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Yeah... they moved the border. Never been quite sure if Yorkshire wanted to get rid of me or Lancashire desparately wanted me?

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

cheers
 
russdaz said:
Yeah during the conversion we had i did bring that up, his answer was that, they should be atleast as visible as any-one walking down the road.

Dont forget the guys with the speed camera on this ocasion are unlikely to actually stop you at that location, it'l be a case of getting it in the post, or if your going that fast if there cops a tug in the car, which they will then be used to indicate to other road users of a hazard. i.e your car on the side of the road.
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There were a "few" of them hanging around ( I think it was 3 others plus mr gun) so I would "expect" that they would stop the offender at the time other wise It would have just been him :shrug:
But as also said I didn't see a car at any point that was obviously well hidden
 
Cobra said:
I am trying to steer this away from "politics"
and yes some speed limits are too slow and yes I have gone "over the top"
but on open roads not built up areas where ( in most cases) 30 is there for a reason and in its self sometimes is too fast
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Oh I didn't think you werer trying to make it political at all. And I agree, there are time that 10 mph is way too fast in a 30 limit. It really does depend on conditions at the time.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
A Dft study in 2006 concluded that exceeding the speed limit was a factor in 12 per cent of fatal road accidents, which means that 88% of road deaths aren't caused by speeding, yet by far the most effort is put into apprehending speeders.

Why? Simply because catching speeding motorists is the easiest way to generate revenue, short of taxing the air we breathe...
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a report i read (written by the police) said that just 6% of accidents were caused by speeding - now the question really is

do you want the police spending YOUR money reducing the 6% or the 94% ??
 
sportysnaps said:
a report i read (written by the police) said that just 6% of accidents were caused by speeding - now the question really is

do you want the police spending YOUR money reducing the 6% or the 94% ??
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Yep I am concerned about the other 94%
But that would be another debate
if this one gets political it will get shut down.........

I guess what I am really trying to get at is, is it OK for the force to go covert
in an attempt to collect revenue or should they be in full view to slow down speeding motorists?
I am sure they would still " catch a few" ( maybe not as many)
as a percentage of motorists drive with their eyes shut..
we have all seen them ;)
 
Cobra said:

I guess what I am really trying to get at is, is it OK for the force to go covert
in an attempt to collect revenue or should they be in full view to slow down speeding motorists?;)
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no they should be catching real killers...

Education, training and public awareness should be more effective - personally I would like to see more speed signs - all to often when driving to an event I find myself asking - what is the speed limit here?
 
sportysnaps said:
- all to often when driving to an event I find myself asking - what is the speed limit here?
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Actually thats a very valid point (y)
I too have noticed a "lack of signs"
 
Trouble with that is flash
built up areas with street lamps > 100 m apart are not always 30
I know at least 2 local.
thats 40 and one that d-restricted ( as it used to be called)
the side roads are ( mostly but not all) signed at 30 off that stretch ( as they should be, but local lads being what they are like to collect these things after a "night out")

open ( single carriageway) roads are not always 60 more and more they are being reduced to 50 ( around here anyway)
as are some of the duels

Its ok if your "local" and know the area (roads) but just one sign at the start
and you miss it ( yes I know you should be looking) and your in a 30 again

There are also some that intimate they are 30 but in fact are 60
( one sign as you approach a roundabout)
as you are probably watching the roundabout at this time you would miss the sign
so you are driving 30 in a 60 and ****ing off the locals it works both ways "up" as well as "down"
 
Cobra said:
Not sure on that but it should be illegal if it isn't :D
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I'm pretty sure it is, driving without due care and attention,perhaps?

Think about it, if the majority of the traffic is travelling at 60mph and you're doddering alone at half that, it's every bit as dangerous as someone driving at 90mph in the same conditions
 
sportysnaps said:
a report i read (written by the police) said that just 6% of accidents were caused by speeding - now the question really is

do you want the police spending YOUR money reducing the 6% or the 94% ??
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It depends upon the cost and ease of reducing that 94%. If it was going to take more than 16x the amount of money then targetting speeding is economically sensible. Also that 94% will be due to many factors, how do you decide which to target?


sportysnaps said:
no they should be catching real killers...

Education, training and public awareness should be more effective - personally I would like to see more speed signs - all to often when driving to an event I find myself asking - what is the speed limit here?
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Sorry but you should never be ignorant of the speed limit. It will be 30 if there are no repeaters and street lights, national speed limit if there are no repeaters and no street lights (60 or 70 depending on single or dual carriageway) and if its anything else there will be repeaters.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Iirc if you drive at 30mph in a 60 zone you can get done for that too :LOL:
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Quite right too. Get the coffin dodgers off the road.
Mandatory re-testing at 60, yearly eye tests for over 50's would be a start.
 
I am surprised that there were only four of them as this is clearly more important than catching thieving druggy-scroats!

Not the coppers fault, :nono: they only follow orders from the brown-nosing PC bosses upstairs who know everything about crims 'yuman rights' and nothing about coppering!

I know a few retired police officers, totally decent men and old-fashioned thief-takers, they all sing the same song, 'Glad we are not coppers nowadays'! :|
 
KavKav said:
I am surprised that there were only four of them as this is clearly more important than catching thieving druggy-scroats!

Not the coppers fault, :nono: they only follow orders from the brown-nosing PC bosses upstairs who know everything about crims 'yuman rights' and nothing about coppering!

I know a few retired police officers, totally decent men and old-fashioned thief-takers, they all sing the same song, 'Glad we are not coppers nowadays'! :|
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I am sure its not the coppers fault they have to meet the targets set
by the powers that be
I also know one ( copper) and he says the same
( He has only a couple of years left to do for 30 years)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
The answer to that is that you should as a driver, be conversant with what the speed limit is on different types of roads.....
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i am (25+ years on the road with a very good record thank you:LOL::LOL:)- i read the highway code - i understand the rules - what i'm talking about is when in effect you have country road (~60) that then has different speeds at different sections (30 40 50) but some long gaps with no signs (due to missing signs) then you pass a sign facing the other way that is a different speed to last one you passed :bang::bang::bang:

on the way to work there is a duel carageway (~70) but for most of it it is restricted to ~50 but there are very few 50 signs - if you were joining the road from another section you would assume 70 - and get done....

i was driving past a school a while ago in a 20 zone doing 20 - as i continued along i could not see the end on the 20 zone but had driven for a long time so i thought it was 30 but i had not passed anything telling me it was still 20 or that it was 30 (it was 30) - i went past two police men with a speed gun at around 29 as i went around a bend - they were hidden. I thought sod this and i went back - parked up and went to speak to the police man

me "what is the correct speed limit here as i was unsure when i went past you"

police man "i dont know"


:bang::bang::bang:


i was doing the corect speed - the signs were missing
 
sportysnaps said:
i went back - parked up and went to speak to the police man
me "what is the correct speed limit here as i was unsure when i went past you
"police man "i dont know"
:bang::bang::bang:
i was doing the corect speed - the signs were missing
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There really is no answer to that :bang:

As an addendum
I was driving in a 30 not too far from the afore mentioned location ( a mile or so)
Today the road to be fair a is little "dodgy" its an industrial run off but is also a
"rat run" it is a "fast bit of road" with several side roads with heavy vehicles turning in and out all day
and half the night it really is an accident "waiting to happen"
I was some distance behind the car in front and probably doing a tad over 30
the car in front was accelerating away from me
so he was probably doing 40ish

In the "distance" I saw someone walk out into the road I though "kids playing chicken"
they do that there sometimes
as I got to said location, well bugger me! 2 coppers all in black "hiding" behind
the parked cars in the car park in front of this
particular unit.
The 3rd also in black was having a "chat" to the one he had pulled.................

So, it would seem this "black" thing is fast becoming the Norm,
Be carful out there guys
 
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Sorry but you should never be ignorant of the speed limit. It will be 30 if there are no repeaters and street lights, national speed limit if there are no repeaters and no street lights (60 or 70 depending on single or dual carriageway) and if its anything else there will be repeaters.
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yep i know that - i'm talking about when repeaters are not put up or are missing. I drive along a dual carriageway each day that is 70, 50 and 30....with lights
 
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