A terrible week at work

jpgreenwood

jpgreenwood

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jason
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I work with a life long friend and we have always been mates. We share interests outside of work and are good drinking buddies. Recently, his quality of work has been poor. I am responsible for checking the quality of his work. I have had several discussions with him over the past 8 months about what he needs to do to improve, and offered support. More-so recently as his father has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
In the past month he has made some very poor choices in work and has been breaking all the rules to get the job done.
My job has become so difficult checking, and returning his work that I had no option in speaking to higher management. We were in danger of missing all targets for the end of our business year in July. I really did it as a reach out to get him some support from the company and force him to take some time off. I know he is not himself. He refuses all support and just continues in his same ways.
My mate has now been suspended under a pending gross misconduct charge and is probably going to get sacked.
I feel absolutely awful. I don't know how I can face him. What am I going to say to him. He has a lovely family who are going through a really bad time at the moment. I really had no choice.

Not sure what im looking for in posting this. What would you have done in the same situation? Have I been a selfish tw**? Have I done the right thing?
Im not sleeping and left work almost in tears today.
 
jpgreenwood said:
I work with a life long friend and we have always been mates. We share interests outside of work and are good drinking buddies. Recently, his quality of work has been poor. I am responsible for checking the quality of his work. I have had several discussions with him over the past 8 months about what he needs to do to improve, and offered support. More-so recently as his father has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
In the past month he has made some very poor choices in work and has been breaking all the rules to get the job done.
My job has become so difficult checking, and returning his work that I had no option in speaking to higher management. We were in danger of missing all targets for the end of our business year in July. I really did it as a reach out to get him some support from the company and force him to take some time off. I know he is not himself. He refuses all support and just continues in his same ways.
My mate has now been suspended under a pending gross misconduct charge and is probably going to get sacked.
I feel absolutely awful. I don't know how I can face him. What am I going to say to him. He has a lovely family who are going through a really bad time at the moment. I really had no choice.

Not sure what im looking for in posting this. What would you have done in the same situation? Have I been a selfish tw**? Have I done the right thing?
Im not sleeping and left work almost in tears today.
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The answer is in your post. His neck or both your necks !
 
Donnie said:
Did you tell him that if he didn't sort himself out that you'd have no choice but to go to management?
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We tried to work through things discreetly for months but it just got fixed short term, then back to his old ways on the next job. I really thought it would never come to that, and that's why I feel really bad going behind his back. It would have been me on a disciplinary if I had let things go.
 
I understand where you are coming from Jason. It is for this reason that when I started in management I started to distance myself from my friends at work. Still had banter with them even went for nights out. But it did mean I could if I had too "come down hard on them" Doesn't help you in how you feel at present, but you did the right thing.
 
No way would I ever go to management, they're not your friend nor understanding if it interferes with profit
That is now patently, obvious to you, so yes bad choice, sorry if that sounds harsh
He should have gone sick as it sounds like he was with mental health issues.

Had a few issues myself at work, neurological disorder that caused some irrational behaviour
Fortunately although I also faced a gross misconduct charge the union took up my case and it ended with a reprimand
Does your mate have access to union representation?
 
munch said:
I understand where you are coming from Jason. It is for this reason that when I started in management I started to distance myself from my friends at work. Still had banter with them even went for nights out. But it did mean I could if I had too "come down hard on them" Doesn't help you in how you feel at present, but you did the right thing.
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Exactly this, I've become friends with my staff and we have a right laugh, but we're not best mates terms. I also don't add them on FB etc. I feel your pain though, but if he's a good enough friend he will understand what has happened and why you had to do it. Hopefully you can guide it to something a bit more positive for him.
 
Tell you what looking at most of the replies, with friends like you lot, who needs enemies.
 
Don't get me wrong, Im ex Military (we both are), and we know the importance of sticking by each other, and protecting each other. But I also see the point in doing a job right and doing it with quality. If that breaks down, your reputation is shot and things fall apart for everyone. I had to look at the bigger picture in order to ensure we did things right.
 
jpgreenwood said:
Don't get me wrong, Im ex Military (we both are), and we know the importance of sticking by each other, and protecting each other. But I also see the point in doing a job right and doing it with quality. If that breaks down, your reputation is shot and things fall apart for everyone. I had to look at the bigger picture in order to ensure we did things right.
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You asked the question and in my opinion you have let your mate down, just my view and only you know deep down whether you have or not.
 
I understand your comments Rich. I have a family, mortgage, pride etc
Would you have risked all of that to protect a mate?
I really tried everything I could to protect, support him and improve him.
I still feel like sh** though.
 
neil_g said:
So mates over employment yeah?
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Did I say that, don't think so.
Friend is obviously suffering mental health kssues and last thing he needs is a gross misconduct charge.
OP asked the question and yes I think from the facts given he handled it the wrong way.
 
if he was your mate he woudnt of put you in that position that you had to act, dont beat yourself up its been done now and ive got a feeling that the friendship is over, but it was your job to ensure things were right and he let you down...lifes s*** at times
 
When you have something affect your life like impending loss of a loved one reason goes out the window.
My mum was killed in a road accident and it was captured on cctv which I ended up watching the recording.

Always been quite a tough old git, but the original incident and subsequent events had a massive effect on me mentally.
No amount of reasoning or little talks had any effect on me and sounds like this person is having a similar reaction.

Surely knowing the personal details no right minded company would deal with someone so harshly.
So yes if this was the possible outcome I think the action taken was very poor judgement on the OP's part
 
Donnie said:
Did you tell him that if he didn't sort himself out that you'd have no choice but to go to management?
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jpgreenwood said:
We tried to work through things discreetly for months but it just got fixed short term, then back to his old ways on the next job. I really thought it would never come to that, and that's why I feel really bad going behind his back. It would have been me on a disciplinary if I had let things go.
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So I'm ignoring everyone else as they have all based opinion on guesswork whereas Ive asked a specific question that actually informs my opinion which you answered above.

i.e. you say you went behind his back, you did NOT tell him that he was forcing you into a position of going to management. There's my answer, sorry.
 
tijuana taxi said:
You asked the question and in my opinion you have let your mate down, just my view and only you know deep down whether you have or not.
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I don't think he has let his mate down, by not taking the advice and offer of help, his mate was putting them both in an awkward position, I would say his mate has let him down by putting him in that position that he had no choice to go to management and save his own job.
 
Simply put, you did what you needed to do. You covered for him, fixed his work, tried to help him and were left with no choice in the end.

Sounds like you went above and beyond for this friend to me. Yes he sounds like he has issues and also that they are about to get worse for him.

My issue sounds like it’s senior management that have let this chap down, not you.

Sleep easy, you did your bit in trying to help him.
 
gremlin16 said:
Simply put, you did what you needed to do. You covered for him, fixed his work, tried to help him and were left with no choice in the end.

Sounds like you went above and beyond for this friend to me. Yes he sounds like he has issues and also that they are about to get worse for him.

My issue sounds like it’s senior management that have let this chap down, not you.

Sleep easy, you did your bit in trying to help him.
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This!

What would have been the implications for the company, you and him had you not raised it? Depending on the type of work it could be dangerous for others, or illegal, or unethical. Imagine if he was putting up scaffolding for example. Now it is probably unlikely it would have had that effect, but assume you had said nothing to senior management. In months to come they would have questioned the work/results and held you accountable for not doing anything.

While I have sympathy for your friend it is his choice not to address these issues and take the help and support. I would have done exactly the same as you and I speak with experience of not taking action when I should have with someone and being too lenient, and also at managing people with mental health issues.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Did I say that, don't think so.
Friend is obviously suffering mental health kssues and last thing he needs is a gross misconduct charge.
OP asked the question and yes I think from the facts given he handled it the wrong way.
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It's what you eluded to essentially.

The op sounds like he tried to help, but there comes a point where someone needs to step in.

We've all (unfortunately) lost lives one's, some take it much worse than others. The guy needs taking to one side for a chat by management (any decent company would recognise the circumstances) and or signing off work.
 
neil_g said:
We've all (unfortunately) lost lives one's, some take it much worse than others. The guy needs taking to one side for a chat by management (any decent company would recognise the circumstances) and or signing off work.
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Exactly, what I said earlier he should go sick, but any decent company would offer support not disciplinary measures.
The crux of my argument is the OP should have sounded out the repercussions before acting
Its also not good that he felt his own job was threatened should he not essentially grass his mate up

I'm wondering if this is a telecommunications company that took on a fair few ex military people?
 
a very hard one to quantify ,you have probably saved your own back by reporting him but there should also be compassion in the workplace ,it depends on whether his work could cause damage to the company or customers .my advice on this would be he is going to need a friend to support him in his meeting as under the circumstances he might just take the f*** it anyway attitude .so now is the time to fight his corner for him and to put it to management that the guy needs compassionate leave rather than sacking .
 
tijuana taxi said:
Did I say that, don't think so.
Friend is obviously suffering mental health kssues and last thing he needs is a gross misconduct charge.
OP asked the question and yes I think from the facts given he handled it the wrong way.
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From what the OP said, he tried talking to his mate and suggested he took time off sick, so he went to management to get them to convince his mate to take time off and seek help, unfortunately it is management who are handling it wrong.
Mates or not, you don't jeopardise your own job by not doing it properly by covering for his mate. I am intrigued to know how you think he should of handled it if his mate is constantly producing substandard work.
 
nilagin said:
From what the OP said, he tried talking to his mate and suggested he took time off sick, so he went to management to get them to convince his mate to take time off and seek help, unfortunately it is management who are handling it wrong.
Mates or not, you don't jeopardise your own job by not doing it properly by covering for his mate. I am intrigued to know how you think he should of handled it if his mate is constantly producing substandard work.
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To be honest I can't be bothered to even think about how he should or could handle it, I retired and thankfully don't have to deal with any of this nonsense anymore.
Gave my opinion on whether I thought he had handled it badly, but everything else is pure conjecture, the whole management/staff relationship stinks in many companies these days.

That's my interest in this matter curtailed, but I do sincerely hope both parties find a satisfactory outcome to this matter
 
tijuana taxi said:
The crux of my argument is the OP should have sounded out the repercussions before acting
Its also not good that he felt his own job was threatened should he not essentially grass his mate up
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How would you sound out the repercussions? He went to management to seek help for his mate who was refusing to seek help. He had no idea that the management would react in the way they have.
As for not good that he felt his own job would be threatened, it is his job to inspect the work, if he allows poor quality work through, he isn't doing his job, if the work is late because he has to keep returning it, alarm bells are going to ring and management are going to find out the reason quick enough. Even if it isn't a safety issue for customers, it would likely be a financial issue for both companies and possibly lead to employment issues within both companies.
 
If the company is any good the pending charge is just that - pending- and no final decision will be made without an investigation into the circumstances. If that is not done your mate should have the option to appeal.

You have tried to help him sort the issues out in the short term, and then turned to senior management for support in the longer term. Mates or not there is not a lot more you could do without putting your own head on the block.
 
All valid comments guys. And thanks. Just some more meat on the bones When this all started back in October last year, it had gone on for a few monthis. I had raised the issue with him discreetly and improvements were noticed. At that time there were no other factors affecting his work. He started slipping again when he found out his dad was terminally ill. I raised my new concerns with our department manager who is very nice and we had him in a meeting to try and fix things once again. This was all managed internally, informally and in a friendly manner. With full support offered. We both advised he took some time off but he refused. In may I contacted our HR welfare department and asked them to speak with him and support him in any way we could. Once again he refused to take time off. When I found more evidence of bad practices, I spoke to my department manager again. It was her who reported it up the chain, and the subsequent investigation. Safety and young vulnerable workers are affected by our work so it needs to he right.
 
jpgreenwood said:
All valid comments guys. And thanks. Just some more meat on the bones When this all started back in October last year, it had gone on for a few monthis. I had raised the issue with him discreetly and improvements were noticed. At that time there were no other factors affecting his work. He started slipping again when he found out his dad was terminally ill. I raised my new concerns with our department manager who is very nice and we had him in a meeting to try and fix things once again. This was all managed internally, informally and in a friendly manner. With full support offered. We both advised he took some time off but he refused. In may I contacted our HR welfare department and asked them to speak with him and support him in any way we could. Once again he refused to take time off. When I found more evidence of bad practices, I spoke to my department manager again. It was her who reported it up the chain, and the subsequent investigation. Safety and young vulnerable workers are affected by our work so it needs to he right.
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I think that you have done everything you could have, right. Stop beating yourself up. :)

He needs to take some responsibility for his own problems, difficult though it is, and accept help offered. ..... and yes, higher management need to know the circumstances to make the right decision for him and the company, which may not be sacking him.



.
 
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lots of odd things being said here, but if I was in the same situation I think I would have acted just the same, you followed a pretty good process to try and bring this back on track.
some things just can't be saved so easily.
 
jpgreenwood said:
All valid comments guys. And thanks. Just some more meat on the bones When this all started back in October last year, it had gone on for a few monthis. I had raised the issue with him discreetly and improvements were noticed. At that time there were no other factors affecting his work. He started slipping again when he found out his dad was terminally ill. I raised my new concerns with our department manager who is very nice and we had him in a meeting to try and fix things once again. This was all managed internally, informally and in a friendly manner. With full support offered. We both advised he took some time off but he refused. In may I contacted our HR welfare department and asked them to speak with him and support him in any way we could. Once again he refused to take time off. When I found more evidence of bad practices, I spoke to my department manager again. It was her who reported it up the chain, and the subsequent investigation. Safety and young vulnerable workers are affected by our work so it needs to he right.
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Agreed, you have done well by him.

It does sound like he may have mental health issues and it may be right for you to go back to senior management and HR and put this point of view across very forcefully.
 
jpgreenwood said:
All valid comments guys. And thanks. Just some more meat on the bones When this all started back in October last year, it had gone on for a few monthis. I had raised the issue with him discreetly and improvements were noticed. At that time there were no other factors affecting his work. He started slipping again when he found out his dad was terminally ill. I raised my new concerns with our department manager who is very nice and we had him in a meeting to try and fix things once again. This was all managed internally, informally and in a friendly manner. With full support offered. We both advised he took some time off but he refused. In may I contacted our HR welfare department and asked them to speak with him and support him in any way we could. Once again he refused to take time off. When I found more evidence of bad practices, I spoke to my department manager again. It was her who reported it up the chain, and the subsequent investigation. Safety and young vulnerable workers are affected by our work so it needs to he right.
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I can understand you feeling guilty, he is a mate after all and a mate in difficult circumstances. But you took, not just the required steps but probably more than reasonable steps. Hopefully the senior management will recognise the position your mate is in and take a kindly view. They will probably wish they had known sooner, what with the deadline now being so close, but you haven't done anything wrong. Be there for your mate, whatever the outcome, you have done nothing wrong.
 
jpgreenwood said:
All valid comments guys. etc............ Safety and young vulnerable workers are affected by our work so it needs to he right.
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I think that fully crystallises the situation. No room for avoiding immediate and decisive action. Not a pleasant situation.
 
After a couple of weeks investigation, he has been given a final written warning, but still denies any wrong doing. I haven't met or spoke to him since this all started due to work commitments in other areas.
HR said he would get all of the transcripts of everything that was said by all persons that were interviewed. I really didn't want him to see these. Although they are all true accounts, its heartbreaking for me to read them back.
I am due to go to a party tonight and he will be there. Im not going. I don't know how to face him. Im back in work on Tuesday and dreading it. I really don't want to lose his friendship.
 
You need to face him, you need to man up.

OK harsh yes but you need to have a scrabble around and find your balls :eek:;) and face him.

This is an opportunity to save your friendship and support him, he knows you know about the final written warning, therefore you need to change the narrative and be his friend on one hand and manager (its your job) on the other, and talk to him about moving his work forward as the next step is he will be fired and you don't want that. Approach it from that angle and all should be well.
 
He's been offered help and support time after time and has refused to take time off or even accept that there's a problem. I can sympathise with you and with him too and I can imagine the issues and the pain for you both but maybe more of a shock could be a good thing to help him to face reality, accept it and begin to move forward positively?

If he loses his job you can continue to offer help and support and maybe you can be a more supportive and effective positive influence in his life once you're freed from the additional stress, pressure and anxiety of working with him in an area in which his problems are having such an effect.

Perhaps you can persuade him to look at the possibility of getting professional help? There's no shame in it.

I wouldn't worry about not going to the party, maybe you both need a night off from this. Take a break and next week try again. People with issues do need to accept they have them, it's a first step towards coming to terms and seeing a way forward. I know you've tried everything time and time again, all you can do as a friend is take a break, take a breath and try again.
 
I have read through the posts, and it seems to me that the OP's friend is in complete denial, and this is having a very negative impact on the OP. The OP is having to do his job as manager, which in a way is in direct conflict with the behaviour of the friend, who doen't want to accept that their work is way below standard, and refuses all efforts to help and support them.
I think the OP needs to quickly assess this friendship, and ask himself if it is worth the hassle and possible detrimental effects on his own job.
 
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