Acceptable ISO

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Peter
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I noticed on a previous thread someone stated they used iso 800 for use with 70-200f4, on their Canon 40d. On using the same lens on my 10d, in my opinion only up 400 iso is acceptable. Is this the opinion of others, and in particular how far can you go with the iso on the 50d, as it is the body I am interested in trading up to. I have read that the top range bodies can go much higher, but what what about mid-range?
 
ISO is different on every camera model. The 40D is a great camera for it, I can go up to 1600 is thats very acceptable, even at 3200 im impressed.
 
i shot quite alot of the cambrian rally @ iso 800 and thought i'd have to run the shotsd through some noise reduction software, i suppose if your being very very picky you would, but i didn't feel the need, oh, canon 20d body
 
ISO is different on every camera model. The 40D is a great camera for it, I can go up to 1600 is thats very acceptable, even at 3200 im impressed.

i agree... the 40d handles iso much better than the 10d... however i wouldnt usually go to iso 1600, without applying some serrious noise reduction :)
 
The lens is not the issue. The ISO performance is dependent upon the body, how well you expose, how you process your images, what software you use, whether you use noise reduction software, if you crop and by how much, and how much you enlarge for the final image as displayed. Also, if you don't nail focus or you get some shake/blur you may be tempted to over-sharpen, which will increase the appearance of noise unless you are quite skilled/artful in your sharpening techniques.

I don't have a 10D. This was shot with my 30D at 1600 ISO. I believe the only edit to this was a white balance adjustment. NR, sharpening and all other settings were at Lightroom defaults....

20080829_203252_3012_LR.jpg
 
Acceptable for what? .

I was reading down the thread and I knew what I was gonna post then .... you did it :)

I ahd a 10d and I was told not to worry about noise if you nail the exposure... well of course theres still noise but a good exposure is important for high iso... personaly i over expose a tickle if using high iso.. find its cleaner that way..
 
As to what you would find acceptable, it kinda depends on what size you will be using the image.
Will you be printing it out, will you be viewing it 100% on a monitor.
Will you apply noise reduction software?

I have been playing with the 7d. In a hot climate, I had to shoot some images at 3200 ISO.
These shots at 100% appear to have a lot of red pixels, in a dark image. However using DPP, set to noise reduction 1,2 (luminance, chromiance) most of these pixels have gone.

Here are an example (excuse the poor grammar).
same shot
at 800px, 100% (i.e. 1px=1px)

Wouldn't like to print this size perhaps

at 800px, 50% (i.e., 1px=2px x 2px)

Not too bad, perhaps a 6x4?

at 800px, 33pc (i.e., 1px =3px x 3px)

Could be a larger print, 8x6?

at 800px, 25pc (i.e., 1px = 4px x 4px)

Could be a decent sized print. Even at this destruction of pixels, I have thrown away ~50% of the pixels of the photo from cropping down to 800px
 
ISO 3200 on 7D only resized and sharpened for the web, no noise reduction added!

Acceptable to me!

eyefly.jpg
 
I noticed on a previous thread someone stated they used iso 800 for use with 70-200f4, on their Canon 40d. On using the same lens on my 10d, in my opinion only up 400 iso is acceptable. Is this the opinion of others, and in particular how far can you go with the iso on the 50d, as it is the body I am interested in trading up to. I have read that the top range bodies can go much higher, but what what about mid-range?

That would be me. I regularly use ISO 800 to achieve higher shutter speeds when hand holding tele/telezoom lenses.
These images were taken at ISO 800 with the 40D and 300 f4 lens and no NR

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=155212
 
That would be me. I regularly use ISO 800 to achieve higher shutter speeds when hand holding tele/telezoom lenses.
These images were taken at ISO 800 with the 40D and 300 f4 lens and no NR

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=155212

I think you will find those were taken at ISO 400!

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/50 second ===> 0.02 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 4/1 ===> ƒ/4
# Exposure Program = aperture priority (3)
# ISO Speed Ratings = 400

great shots though.. but not really shot at high enough ISO to cause noise..
 
Personally I am not afraid to use high ISO, regularly pushing the 1Dmk3 to its limits. Yes there is maybe some noise but at least I get the photo I'm after.

Too many people get hung up on trying to get images with no noise at all. Surely an image with some noise is better than no image at all?
 
I think you will find those were taken at ISO 400! ...

Indeed they were. :D

OP: As said, the ISO you use will depend on the situation you are in, don't go in thinking, oh it's good to use 800ISO with this lens, or whatever.

Personally, a bit of noise doesn't really bother me. Especially with the 5D, even when it's noisy it still looks good. I shoot at the uncalibrated 3200 ISO all the time and don't worry about it.
 
Acceptable for what? I regularly use 6400 and don't see it as an issue.

A good photograph is all about opinions, and it a safe to assume that most photographs displaying a lot of noise are not acceptable to most (there will be some exceptions of course), otherwise camera reviews would not discuss same.

Clearly there is not such an issue with higher spec models as Ed Bray has clearly displayed, with his shot taken at 3200 on a 7d - that is what I would call very acceptable.
You would not get anything near that with a 10d, as the noise increases as soon as you go above 400. Based on all your reply's, it would seem there is an acceptable range somewhere in between 800 and 1600 on mid range bodies.
 
I would also be interested to see what clients accept in the way of noise (and come back for more images).

My first commercial work was basically for stock and some of the sites refuse images with any noise whatsoever at 100% so this has become almost my benchmark.

I have gradually been printing images with higher ISO-more noise just for my own information but still find this difficult to do having got used to no noise at all. I am trying to train myself not to delete images that look good at 50% instead of 100% as not many get printed in the large sizes :D
 
Based on all your reply's, it would seem there is an acceptable range somewhere in between 800 and 1600 on mid range bodies.

If you want better IQ, with respect to noise, you want to capture more light so that you have a stronger signal that stands clearly above the noise floor. For any given sensor efficiency/technology, there are three ways (other than using flash or extra lighting) you can get more signal recorded....

1. You use a slower shutter speed in order to gather the light for longer;
2. You use a wider aperture in order to let more light in while the shutter is open;
3. You use a bigger sensor area and a bigger lens so that even for the same shutter speed and aperture value you can gather more light.

Increasing the ISO does not help you to gather more light. What is does is to amplify the light you did capture, but that also amplifies the noise, somewhat, so your signal/image does not look so clean. The higher the ISO you use, the more you are amplifying the signal and the noise, so the worse things look.

Increasing sensor size does not amplify anything; it simply gathers more light, like sticking two buckets under a waterfall instead of only one. A full frame sensor has 2.56X as much area as a crop body like a 10D and so should be around one whole stop better (twice as good) at capturing more light. Thus if the sensors used identical technology for the pixels and electronics the full frame camera at 3200 ISO should look at least as good as a crop body at 1600 ISO, perhaps a little better.

Now, if big sensors record more signal than smaller sensors (providing you use a lens to suit, and make use of that extra area) then it follows that by cropping your images you are discarding some of the light you captured, effectively making your sensor appear even smaller. So, imagine you use a crop body with 3000x2000 pixels and you then crop that image down to 1500x1000. In a stroke you have thrown away three quarters of the signal recorded by the sensor, leaving only one quarter remaining with useful signal. Thus you have effectively reduced your sensor's performance by two stops and an image from that cropped section at 800 ISO would look no better than the same image at 3200 ISO if you had kept the whole frame without cropping.

What all this means is that while sensor technology improves all the time it comes at a stiff price to the pocket. However, if you can work on your technique in order to get closer to your subject and fill more of the frame in the first place then you will reap the benefits of improved IQ with no cost. I've never used a 10D but I'd be surprised if you couldn't get something useable from it at 800 ISO by shooting raw, exposing to the right, filling the frame and processing the image sympathetically.

BTW, if you had cropped that mythical 3000x2000 APS-C image down to just 1000x667 you would end up using an area of the sensor about equal to a compact camera, and we know the problems they have with noise, regardless of how many megapixels they have. So, use the lowest ISO you can comfortably get away with, fill the frame as much as you can, and shoot raw so that you can fine tune your image after capturing the shot, rather than shooting JPEG and locking in the NR, WB, tone curve, sharpening etc. within the camera.
 
I think you will find those were taken at ISO 400!

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/50 second ===> 0.02 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 4/1 ===> ƒ/4
# Exposure Program = aperture priority (3)
# ISO Speed Ratings = 400

great shots though.. but not really shot at high enough ISO to cause noise..

DOH!!
So Sorry. My mistake. I shot mostly ISO 400 and 640 that day.
 
Here are some examples of varying ISO on different cameras none of which have had any NR added.

#1
This was shot at ISO 800 with a 30D which doesn't handle noise quite as good as the 40D but is more than acceptable.

interior.jpg


#2
This was shot at ISO 640 on a 40D

Woodpecker2.jpg


#3
Shot at ISO 3200 on a 5D Mk2

spider.jpg
 
Whatever ISO it takes to get what I'm hoping to shot... the 450d is a bit noisy at 1600... but I'll use it if it needs it.
 
I use whatever ISO will give me the shots I need. If I get somewhere and find the lighting is a couple of rows of fluorescent lights its ISO 3200 (will be 6400 when I get a MkIII) and a fast lens. Both on the 40D and the MkIIn could handle that, and although the 1 series obviously handled it better the 40D was still getting decent enough shots.
 
ISO is different on every camera model. The 40D is a great camera for it, I can go up to 1600 is thats very acceptable, even at 3200 im impressed.


Same, i have the 40d and up to 1600 is fine, 3200 i dont use as its just too much of a risk but up to and including 1600 is usable imo. THough i could get away with 3200 from time to time, i would not recommend it personally.
 
I often shoot at ISO 1600 and occasionally at 3200 (no flash allowed) on my Canon 40D BUT it depends on what you are shooting and what you are going to do with the images that really matters. Gig pics with noise are acceptable (a bit of a generalisation, I admit) but a wedding image with noise is a no-no (again, a generalisation).

Horses for courses!
 
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