Adobe CS6 vs CC

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gpc1

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Greg
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So,

Are you a CC user. Any offers at the moment re subscriptions. I hate subscription services however, it may work in my favour for the next year or so.

I thought i saw it for £9.99 a month, but on adobe its £46 a month, unless im being dumb!


rgds
 
neil_g said:
either way you cant get CS6 any more from adobe. unless any 3rd party has physical stock left.
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there are a few and they are quite pricey, hence if i can get it for 9.99 a month im happy. LR5 upgrade will cost be £60 anyways. So for a year i can have both for 9.99.

Although i may just buy the LR5 upgrade anyways as i use that 90% of the time


Rdgs
 
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ahaa!!

Just found this as you posted. Dunno what i was looking at before!!

I still dont get it though!! So you download the software, can use it as if you purchased the disc, but you just have to contact the server every 30 days.

At 8.79 a month, i dont have an issue as it would take several years to build up the cost of purchasing outright. But at 40 a month its getting a bit pricey, especially if like me you only use a few of the photoshop tools.
 
plus, a quick google search and you can find ways to beat CC and get it 'for free'. ( I dont advocate this and have no issue paying for software). I thought the CC was to make it impossible to hack...
 
gpc1 said:
ahaa!! I still dont get it though!! So you download the software, can use it as if you purchased the disc, but you just have to contact the server every 30 days.
.
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That's about it :)

As long as your on-line every 30 days the software will check in with Adobe. You don't have to do anything apart from pay the DD (I have the whole suite and have since released)
 
gpc1 said:
ahaa!!

Just found this as you posted. Dunno what i was looking at before!!

I still dont get it though!! So you download the software, can use it as if you purchased the disc, but you just have to contact the server every 30 days.

At 8.79 a month, i dont have an issue as it would take several years to build up the cost of purchasing outright. But at 40 a month its getting a bit pricey, especially if like me you only use a few of the photoshop tools.
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You use it as you would any prog.
you get, Photoshop/Bridge and lightroom plus a load of other stuff.
The program does the contacting.

Rhodese.
 
gpc1 said:
I thought the CC was to make it impossible to hack...
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I don't know how it was ever going to be impossible to hack to be honest. The same basic hacking principle on the CS editions is used on the CC edition.
 
neil_g said:
either way you cant get CS6 any more from adobe. unless any 3rd party has physical stock left.
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I haven't checked today but you could buy it from adobe last night as I'm currently trialing CS6- will cost me £189 to upgrade but I could buy it for £598 or so last night. It wasn't the easiest page to find right enough.
However, I think I can get round the lack of raw compatibility in my CS5 ACR for newer cameras (like a mythical D400/900;)) with a converter so it's likely an unnecessary expenditure.
 
Dr_O said:
I haven't checked today but you could buy it from adobe last night as I'm currently trialing CS6- will cost me £189 to upgrade but I could buy it for £598 or so last night. It wasn't the easiest page to find right enough.
However, I think I can get round the lack of raw compatibility in my CS5 ACR for newer cameras (like a mythical D400/900;)) with a converter so it's likely an unnecessary expenditure.
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That's what we were told direct from adobe. They would not sell us a copy through our business acc.
 
My beef with cc was that Adobe has taken away any need for them to develop and upgrade their product to maintain their revenue stream... they no longer have to come up with new features to stimulate revenue by persuading users to upgrade. It's been about a year now and what have we had? Perspective Warp? a few minor tweaks? That's about it... I still hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
 
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Flashman said:
My beef with cc was that Adobe has taken away any need for them to develop and upgrade their product to maintain their revenue stream... they no longer have to come up with new features to stimulate revenue by persuading users to upgrade. It's been about a year now and what have we had? Perspective Warp? a few minor tweaks? That's about it... I still hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
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Not strictly true. You automatically get the latest version through the cloud sub. That in itself is a plus point. No more paying for a full or upgrade just to get a new camera raw update etc
 
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neil_g said:
Not strictly true. You automatically get the latest version through the cloud sub. That in itself is a plus point. No more paying for a full or upgrade just to get a new camera raw update etc
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You didn't have to upgrade at every CS version to get new camera raw updates did you? Anyway, don't get me started on camera support updates, Adobe still aren't supporting the D4S in Lightroom whereas DXO updated Optics Pro 9 with D4S support a while ago... wish Adobe would get off their backsides and keep up! Anyway, I'm talking about the big features like Content Aware etc. that they used to develop to encourage people to upgrade... they don't need to do that now. Just look at how light the development has been since CC started: CLICK ... bugger all there of interest to me.
 
Flashman said:
You didn't have to upgrade at every CS version to get new camera raw updates did you? Anyway, don't get me started on camera support updates, Adobe still aren't supporting the D4S in Lightroom whereas DXO updated Optics Pro 9 with D4S support a while ago... wish Adobe would get off their backsides and keep up! Anyway, I'm talking about the big features like Content Aware etc. that they used to develop to encourage people to upgrade... they don't need to do that now. Just look at how light the development has been since CC started: CLICK ... bugger all there of interest to me.
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Not sure about PS but older versions of LR didn't support new cameras.

For example I had LR3 and I had to move to LR5 (4 would've done but 5 wasn't much more) for my Fuji x20.
 
neil_g said:
Not sure about PS but older versions of LR didn't support new cameras.

For example I had LR3 and I had to move to LR5 (4 would've done but 5 wasn't much more) for my Fuji x20.
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That's because the primary function of Lightroom is a raw developer, whereas Photoshop is more a bitmap editor, although I believe you still have to update Camera raw for new cameras even if you are using Photoshop.
As long as manufacturers continue to introduce new camera models, it will be necessary to keep updating raw developer software.
 
Brian G said:
As long as manufacturers continue to introduce new camera models, it will be necessary to keep updating raw developer software.
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Or you can convert any new RAW file formats to DNG files using the free Adobe DNG Converter software, which will allow any RAW software you already have to read the DNG files. :)
 
Brian G said:
That's because the primary function of Lightroom is a raw developer, whereas Photoshop is more a bitmap editor, although I believe you still have to update Camera raw for new cameras even if you are using Photoshop.
As long as manufacturers continue to introduce new camera models, it will be necessary to keep updating raw developer software.
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Just camera raw wasn't really my point though. With the CC sub you get all new features/fixes/updates for no extra cost
 
redhed17 said:
Or you can convert any new RAW file formats to DNG files using the free Adobe DNG Converter software, which will allow any RAW software you already have to read the DNG files. :)
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But you will still need a new version of camera raw to deal with new camera models as they are introduced, so you are still reliant on that being updated.
Personally I'd rather not go down that route, since DNG seems an unnecessary additional step in the processing chain.
One of the reasons I use Lightroom is because I can directly process raw files from different makes of camera without going through any extra conversion stages.
With any additional processing stages you stand the risk of degrading your image in some way.

You cannot expect any third party software to be able to handle new types of raw file immediately a new camera model is introduced, but from past evidence Adobe are usually pretty rapid in introducing updates.
One of the reasons I went from Corel's AfterShotPro to Lightroom was the very slow update of support for new camera models with ASP.
The Sony RX100 raw update for AfterShotPro didn't turn up until the camera had been on the market for about 4 months, which is simply unacceptable.

As a benefit, I found I could get much better highlight recovery from Lightroom than I ever could with AfterShotPro.
 
neil_g said:
Just camera raw wasn't really my point though. With the CC sub you get all new features/fixes/updates for no extra cost
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Not quite at "no extra cost" - that should read "included in the cost (of your subscription)"

I don't use Photoshop, and as long as it's available as a paid for licence, I'll keep using the stand alone version of Lightroom, even if it means paying for an upgrade to a new version if I need support for a camera I don't yet own.

One thing we don't know is what will happen to the CC subscription after the first year introductory offer runs out.
The subscription might be c.£10 a month right now, but if that doubles in a years time I can see people abandoning CC in droves.
For the current cost of a years CC subscription, in a years time I can buy a new stand-alone full version of Lightroom anyway (if I need to), or even less if I upgrade my current licence.
When/If Lightroom goes the CC route then I'll look for a new raw developer program, of which there are many to choose from.
 
Brian G said:
Not quite at "no extra cost" - that should read "included in the cost (of your subscription)"
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If you're already paying the sub it's no additional cost.

I can't see adobe going bust by losing business any time soon, I'd suggest 90% of their customers have always been businesses and they will pay the cost necessary.

In fact my manager has said the cost of CC per head compared to CS suite per head is much better over the average lifespan of an adobe version.
 
neil_g said:
With the CC sub you get all new features/fixes/updates for no extra cost
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Apologies if I'm being 'Mr Thickie' here Neil... but how is that any different to the old CS days? We used to get 'free' fixes & updates in the X.1/X.2/X.3 etc. versions regularly didn't we? Honestly, I'm not trying to start an argument, I've been subscribing to CC since last summer and I still don't get how it's any better in this regard... I'm happy to be enlightened though! :)

But my point, as ever, is completely different to this anyway... I'm not really fussed over how and when updates/fixes etc. are delivered... the system worked before and it works now (despite Adobe being a bit behind the competition with the LR D4S support!). All I've ever been concerned with is that Adobe can now cut their development budget and still maintain their revenue stream... so we'll be seeing less new killer features for our money in the future than we used to get under their old business model. I suppose it will take another year or two to be able to really judge whether I'm right or not but so far there's been little of interest to me... Shake Reduction?... Pretty Useless / Perspective Warp?... Could do that with existing tools before! / Conditional Actions?... OK that's a bit useful in some circumstances but hardly groundbreaking / Er... that's about it so far really, none of the other 'improvements' are of any interest to me... Let's see if they come up with much more over the next couple of years or so... but I doubt it!
 
Flashman said:
Apologies if I'm being 'Mr Thickie' here Neil... but how is that any different to the old CS days? We used to get 'free' fixes & updates in the X.1/X.2/X.3 etc. versions regularly didn't we? Honestly, I'm not trying to start an argument, I've been subscribing to CC since last summer and I still don't get how it's any better in this regard... I'm happy to be enlightened though! :)

But my point, as ever, is completely different to this anyway... I'm not really fussed over how and when updates/fixes etc. are delivered... the system worked before and it works now (despite Adobe being a bit behind the competition with the LR D4S support!). All I've ever been concerned with is that Adobe can now cut their development budget and still maintain their revenue stream... so we'll be seeing less new killer features for our money in the future than we used to get under their old business model. I suppose it will take another year or two to be able to really judge whether I'm right or not but so far there's been little of interest to me... Shake Reduction?... Pretty Useless / Perspective Warp?... Could do that with existing tools before! / Conditional Actions?... OK that's a bit useful in some circumstances but hardly groundbreaking / Er... that's about it so far really, none of the other 'improvements' are of any interest to me... Let's see if they come up with much more over the next couple of years or so... but I doubt it!
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Well no you didn't get cs5 features in cs4 for no additional cost. That'd my point. CC is always up to date version.
 
neil_g said:
Well no you didn't get cs5 features in cs4 for no additional cost. That'd my point. CC is always up to date version.
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Neil, I think we are talking about two completely different things... I've never mentioned cost and I'm not bothered about CC being permanently 'up to date' (the CS system kept perfectly up to date enough for me). My point and my concern is that Adobe can now cut their development budget and still maintain their revenue stream so in five years time we will have much less of a product than we would have had under the old system where they had to develop killer features to generate sales... I just think we will all lose out in the long run.

Am I not explaining my point very well? Does anybody get it? <SHRUG>
 
i do.

Once on CC you are in it for the longhaul regardless of whether they develop anything. Theres no 'new release' of features in a big upgrade release. They can dripfeed develiopments slowly whilst still maintianing the same customer base who need it for the basic features...

probably not explained it either but i do get what you mean i think. It has the potential to just tick along, slow development of new features.
 
neil_g said:
Well no you didn't get cs5 features in cs4 for no additional cost. That'd my point. CC is always up to date version.
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No you didn't get the new features, but you did get to keep using it with your pics, it didn't stop if your internets down or theres a problem paying (my bank are useless with direct debits for example) The point Keiths making about Adobe not being under pressure to produce a new updated version is valid.
Adobe didn't give people a choice about whether to go CC or not, because they wanted to force people to use it, wait till the price goes up and what little updates theres been stop (and when LR goes CC) Personally I like to have a choice, CC isn't suitable for every one, my main editing computer isn't connected to the net for security reasons, that makes it impossible for me to use it with CC
 
Flashman said:
Neil, I think we are talking about two completely different things... I've never mentioned cost and I'm not bothered about CC being permanently 'up to date' (the CS system kept perfectly up to date enough for me). My point and my concern is that Adobe can now cut their development budget and still maintain their revenue stream so in five years time we will have much less of a product than we would have had under the old system where they had to develop killer features to generate sales... I just think we will all lose out in the long run.

Am I not explaining my point very well? Does anybody get it? <SHRUG>
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You're not losing out either way then? And I disagree with adobe becoming complacent with development. They'll already be developing for releases/features x years away. The smart cloning wouldn't be knocked up quickly.

swanseamale47 said:
No you didn't get the new features, but you did get to keep using it with your pics, it didn't stop if your internets down or theres a problem paying (my bank are useless with direct debits for example) The point Keiths making about Adobe not being under pressure to produce a new updated version is valid.
Adobe didn't give people a choice about whether to go CC or not, because they wanted to force people to use it, wait till the price goes up and what little updates theres been stop (and when LR goes CC) Personally I like to have a choice, CC isn't suitable for every one, my main editing computer isn't connected to the net for security reasons, that makes it impossible for me to use it with CC
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You can't expect adobe not to move forward and address the huge issue with pirated copies of their apps. If anything blame those people for how adobe have changed.

Also your internet would have to be down for 30 days in a row for that to become a problem.
 
neil_g said:
You're not losing out either way then? And I disagree with adobe becoming complacent with development. They'll already be developing for releases/features x years away. The smart cloning wouldn't be knocked up quickly.


You can't expect adobe not to move forward and address the huge issue with pirated copies of their apps. If anything blame those people for how adobe have changed.
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I'm sorry, but the Piracy issue has very little to do with why Adobe went to the subscription model. As has been said already it in thread it was constant revenue stream that that was the main reason. They thought that there were enough professional users plus serious amateurs to move to the subscription model. That many of those Pro's and amateurs have started with pirated copies has done them little harm, and has indeed made them a huge userbase and stifled the opposition.

As for Adobe coming up with new features, they said that not having the pressure to come up with new big features every 12-18 months would benefit the users as they would bring them to users quicker. They forgot to mention that the pressure to bring the new big features was a big aid to innovation. Most people will have decided whether the subscription model is for them or not, and as it may be getting harder to come up with new eye catching features they have decided to keep subscriber's happy with minor updates. It would take something huge to attract many new users, and I don't think Adobe have too many of them left in the program.
 
One of the major concerns I have is that they can remove functionality as well as implement it, screwing up a workflow. At least with a static version you know what you have. (Just look at what has been removed in Bridge!).
CC is not for me!
 
I'm sure it was a very large reason. Granted not the only one.

The subscription model if anything gets more people on board quicker anyway. If you wanted illustrator for example I feel better about paying the small monthly fee than buying the full retail package. Maybe that's psychological.

I'm sure more and more software outlets will go down the subscription route.

Anyway we've done this debate to death.
 
They removed the output panel (but as there was an outcry it can now be installed as a seperate package).
The Export panel has also been removed, and sadly missed by thousands.
Configurater will no longer be supported! Flash panels will go. So you will have to learn HTML5 to have panels.
These are but a few.
Good luck!
 
neil_g said:
I'm sure it was a very large reason. Granted not the only one.
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If they were serious about Piracy they could have been better at stopping it in the past, were again I say it has aided them, and I think it still does. Maybe even more so. Photoshop CC got pirated very quickly, and I think that they would have to been better at stopping it if they were serious about stopping it.

The CC looks a good deal, especially now that they have brought the price down to a reasonable price.(and they didn't do that out of the goodness of their hearts, subscriber numbers brought the price down ;)) But once people realise that the program stops working if they don't continue to pay, then they start to give it serious thought, and a lot of people have decided it is not for them, hence the slash in the cost for subscriptions.

neil_g said:
I'm sure more and more software outlets will go down the subscription route.
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I have no doubt about it, if current subscription models are a success. ;)

neil_g said:
If you wanted illustrator for example I feel better about paying the small monthly fee than buying the full retail package. Maybe that's psychological.
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I don't think that the market among Photographers is huge for other programs beyond Photoshop and/or Lightroom. If you do use multiple Adobe products then the whole CC makes a lot of sense.

neil_g said:
What has been removed from bridge ? (Don't use it myself)
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I think Bridge itself has been removed by default. Don't know about specific features being removed. I read something a few months ago about them moving away from using Bridge.
 
neil_g said:
You can't expect adobe not to move forward and address the huge issue with pirated copies of their apps. If anything blame those people for how adobe have changed.

Also your internet would have to be down for 30 days in a row for that to become a problem.
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No but by the same token Adobe can't grumble their customers for not wanting to switch to a product that stops working once they stop paying.
Not everybodies is willing to wonder how much it'll cost them next year or the year after to use something they've been using for years without the hassle. And remember if Adobe closed tomorrow so does your cloud software, not so with a bought version, ok you won't get updates but I'm not seeing many with cloud anyway.
 
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