Adult Puma Sighted in Scotland

[Dale.]

Kellas cat. This is measured at 16 inches shoulder height. It’s stuffed of course so hard to know how well it was done but it looks ‘chunkier’ than the usual. It’s a Wild-Cat x Domestic.

Kellas cat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm still thinking the 2 in our garden last week were probably domestic. They were big though and to see 2 together like that is very unusual. They scream siblings to me, which is also unusual.

Kellas? Maybe. Fascinating read that.

 

[Dale.]

Jeezo!!
No wonder you are billy nomates. I'd imagine people would give you a wide berth when out exercising them

You beat me to it.

 

[Mr Badger]

'Big cat' caught on CCTV prowling in Scots garden by frightened dog owner

A 10-second clip shared with the Record shows an animal with glowing eyes perched atop the small structure.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Who here has a set up capable of photographing/videoing such a beast at night,

I do, I'm also well used to looking at night vision video footage of wild animals. In this case, that rather poor quality video appears to show a domestic cat (Felis cattus) walking along the top of a wooden fence in fairly close proximity to the camera (which has a fish-eye type wide angle lens), hence the animal looking larger.

As with all the alleged UK wild big cat photos and video footage I've seen, the quality of the image is very poor. If big cats are allegedly so prevalent in the wild in the UK, then how come not one single, good-quality, photo or video clip exists that clearly shows a puma, panther, etc. in the wild (not a known escapee on the run) Not one! If there is, then show us all! Or have the 'men in black' confiscated them all?

Think of how many trail cameras are set annually these days in the UK countryside for wildlife monitoring purposes, which produce clear and definitive images of Scottish wildcats, pine martens, badgers, deer species, rats, mice, voles, otters, polecats, foxes, domestic cats, dogs, et all... and yet not one single, definitive, clear image of a genuine, wild big cat. Now ask yourself why that might be!

It's the same sort of thing with UFOs, the underlying reason that the subject remains unidentified or appears mysterious is because the photo or video image is so poor! After all, it tends to be pretty obvious what the object actually is if the image is clear and sharp.

As for someone saying domestic cats don't growl, they've obviously not had much to do with domestic cats, as all the ones I've lived with over the years could growl, and also hiss and gecker.

Domestic cats can also grow quite large, as this photo shows (and yes, those are standard 'house brick' size paving blocks). Now imagine a blurry photo or video of a black coloured cat that size at night, particularly if the animal is a few feet nearer than it seems, and you've got a story fit for the tabloids!

 

[Dale.]

I do, I'm also well used to looking at night vision video footage of wild animals. In this case, that rather poor quality video appears to show a domestic cat (Felis cattus) walking along the top of a wooden fence in fairly close proximity to the camera (which has a fish-eye type wide angle lens), hence the animal looking larger.

As with all the alleged UK wild big cat photos and video footage I've seen, the quality of the image is very poor. If big cats are allegedly so prevalent in the wild in the UK, then how come not one single, good-quality, photo or video clip exists that clearly shows a puma, panther, etc. in the wild (not a known escapee on the run) Not one! If there is, then show us all! Or have the 'men in black' confiscated them all?

Think of how many trail cameras are set annually these days in the UK countryside for wildlife monitoring purposes, which produce clear and definitive images of Scottish wildcats, pine martens, badgers, deer species, rats, mice, voles, otters, polecats, foxes, domestic cats, dogs, et all... and yet not one single, definitive, clear image of a genuine, wild big cat. Now ask yourself why that might be!

It's the same sort of thing with UFOs, the underlying reason that the subject remains unidentified or appears mysterious is because the photo or video image is so poor! After all, it tends to be pretty obvious what the object actually is if the image is clear and sharp.

As for someone saying domestic cats don't growl, they've obviously not had much to do with domestic cats, as all the ones I've lived with over the years could growl, and also hiss and gecker.

Domestic cats can also grow quite large, as this photo shows (and yes, those are standard 'house brick' size paving blocks). Now imagine a blurry photo or video of a black coloured cat that size at night, particularly if the animal is a few feet nearer than it seems, and you've got a story fit for the tabloids!

View attachment 328215

I guess you don't subscribe to 'Bigfoot Monthly' either?

 

[Mr Badger]

I guess you don't subscribe to 'Bigfoot Monthly' either?

You guessed right, nor werewolf weekly!

 

[sphexx]

I do, I'm also well used to looking at night vision video footage of wild animals. In this case, that rather poor quality video appears to show a domestic cat (Felis cattus) walking along the top of a wooden fence in fairly close proximity to the camera (which has a fish-eye type wide angle lens), hence the animal looking larger.

OK, I’ve now managed to get an uninterrupted screen recording of the Daily Record ‘original’. It is really crappy though in some respects better than a lot of those other showing black cats in fields .

There is a clear photo of the alleged fence which shows the top to be flat not pointed so what I can see (interpret!) in the original ‘points’ is an artefact. I’ve looked repeatedly at the cat walking forward and what I ‘saw‘ as ‘grass’ between it and the fence I can now see as possibly an artefact of the fence top. So I’m inclined to think you are correct!

Interestingly (for me anyway) I have 6 sections of paling fences & gates in my garden, all have pointed tops so I may be ‘programmed to interpret blurry fences like that .

 

[sphexx]

Just for a bit of perspective to show it’s no a problem if there are a few pumas in Scotland, probably best to always wear stout shoes though:

California: mother fights off mountain lion with bare hands to save 5-year-old son

The mountain lion, which dragged the boy across his front lawn, was later killed by wildlife officers

www.theguardian.com

 

[SFTPhotography]

Just for a bit of perspective to show it’s no a problem if there are a few pumas in Scotland, probably best to always wear stout shoes though:

California: mother fights off mountain lion with bare hands to save 5-year-old son

The mountain lion, which dragged the boy across his front lawn, was later killed by wildlife officers

www.theguardian.com

I'd say that illustrates a potential problem - that could have very easily gone the other way for that kid but by the grace of god it didn't.

 

[Pound Coin]

But if you want better odds of killing your 5 year old, pop it into a car, or feed it junk food, or (insert list of things that kill 5 year olds)

 

[SFTPhotography]

But if you want better odds of killing your 5 year old, pop it into a car, or feed it junk food, or (insert list of things that kill 5 year olds)

Well yeah...but to imply having Puma's roaming around is completely safe is a little disingenuous. Hence the wildlife people had to kill it. I'd have rathered they tranq'd it and taken it far far away or put into wild life park/reserve/zoo

 

[MartynK]

My daughter attended a conference in Southern California some years ago, and joined a group of joggers on a boardwalk run next to the beach. It was quite early in the morning, dawn was just breaking and there was a bit of mist coming off the sea. They all stopped for a breather at some point and one of the group leaders said there was something watching them from the bushes/long grass above the beach. It was a mountain lion, aka puma.

There was no doubt about this. The cat was about 30 - 40m away and could be clearly seen, including the distinctive long tail. My daughter is a scientist, not over impressionable and lives in Africa. She's familiar with big cats.

Were they in any danger? None of the local university staff seemed unduly concerned. They'd seen the animal, or another cat, several times and it always kept its distance. Puma attacks do occur but they're not all that common.

 

[Pound Coin]

Well yeah...but to imply having Puma's roaming around is completely safe is a little disingenuous. Hence the wildlife people had to kill it. I'd have rathered they tranq'd it and taken it far far away or put into wild life park/reserve/zoo

To imply that life is completely safe is disingenuous. As is being all shrill and exorcised about a story about a cat on the other side of the world.
More 5 year olds have been killed in airport bombs recently.

 

[SFTPhotography]

To imply that life is completely safe is disingenuous. As is being all shrill and exorcised about a story about a cat on the other side of the world.
More 5 year olds have been killed in airport bombs recently.

They have been. But I wouldn't dismiss the risks of big cats completely out of hand.

 

[sphexx]

Well yeah...but to imply having Puma's roaming around is completely safe is a little disingenuous. Hence the wildlife people had to kill it. I'd have rathered they tranq'd it and taken it far far away or put into wild life park/reserve/zoo

No, they killed it because it at had preyed on a child. There are plenty of pumas in fairly urban areas of California and most people are OK with that. If you read the article you will see the other nearby puma was transported and released when found not to be implicated in the event.

 

[boyfalldown]

Why was it cited? Had it previously published research?

 

[phil_b]

There is a UK based podcast called Big Cat Conversations all about supposed sightings of big cats across the UK. I am still a bit sceptical about the whole thing but they have interviews with all sorts of people like farmers, walkers, gamekeepers, police officers etc who describe what they saw. It is an interesting listen whatever you think and a couple of things described made the hair on the back of my neck stand.

 

[Tringa]

I do, I'm also well used to looking at night vision video footage of wild animals. In this case, that rather poor quality video appears to show a domestic cat (Felis cattus) walking along the top of a wooden fence in fairly close proximity to the camera (which has a fish-eye type wide angle lens), hence the animal looking larger.

As with all the alleged UK wild big cat photos and video footage I've seen, the quality of the image is very poor. If big cats are allegedly so prevalent in the wild in the UK, then how come not one single, good-quality, photo or video clip exists that clearly shows a puma, panther, etc. in the wild (not a known escapee on the run) Not one! If there is, then show us all! Or have the 'men in black' confiscated them all?

Think of how many trail cameras are set annually these days in the UK countryside for wildlife monitoring purposes, which produce clear and definitive images of Scottish wildcats, pine martens, badgers, deer species, rats, mice, voles, otters, polecats, foxes, domestic cats, dogs, et all... and yet not one single, definitive, clear image of a genuine, wild big cat. Now ask yourself why that might be!

It's the same sort of thing with UFOs, the underlying reason that the subject remains unidentified or appears mysterious is because the photo or video image is so poor! After all, it tends to be pretty obvious what the object actually is if the image is clear and sharp.

As for someone saying domestic cats don't growl, they've obviously not had much to do with domestic cats, as all the ones I've lived with over the years could growl, and also hiss and gecker.

Domestic cats can also grow quite large, as this photo shows (and yes, those are standard 'house brick' size paving blocks). Now imagine a blurry photo or video of a black coloured cat that size at night, particularly if the animal is a few feet nearer than it seems, and you've got a story fit for the tabloids!

View attachment 328215

Agree. It is amazing so many digital camera suddenly lose the autofocus function whenever a big cat appears and end up producing the most out of focus photo you've ever seen.

Dave

 

[LCPete]

Not sure what that cat is but does look like a puma I’ll keep an open mind though
Thing is these sightings always have poor quality video or stills I would have thought that someone would have got a decent trail camera or still shot if there was big cats in the UK

 

[Cobra]

Thing is these sightings always have poor quality video or stills

Aliens and wild big cats always seem to have a negative effect on camera's these days, almost like a time warp back as they were
50 years ago

 

[Deleted member 26215]

What did it receive its citation for?

 

[Cobra]

View attachment 329909
What did it receive its citation for?

Scaring the locals?

 

[LCPete]

Aliens and wild big cats always seem to have a negative effect on camera's these days, almost like a time warp back as they were
50 years ago

Yep exactly what I thought, I’m quite willing to believe anything reasonable with proof but surely in the overpopulated UK someone would get decent pictures

 

[Cobra]

someone would get decent pictures

Especially with the amount of very expensive kit and the advances of the digital age in photography.

I've never seen a live one, here, but on a local farm, where I had the hunting rights, near the spinney, there were often large cat prints in the mud.
Probably Lynx.

 

[sphexx]

I would have thought that someone would have got a decent trail camera or still shot if there was big cats in the UK

I think that’s an unreasonable expectation — if there are, hypothetically, one or two “big cats in the U.K. where would you site the cameras? If ”it” regularly appeared somewhere or had a regular route or there were a lot of them (unlikely) it would be different,

 

[sphexx]

Especially with the amount of very expensive kit and the advances of the digital age in photography.

I've never seen a live one, here, but on a local farm, where I had the hunting rights, near the spinney, there were often large cat prints in the mud.
Probably Lynx.

I’ve no idea about the ones you’ve seen but I’ve seen humongous canine prints in mud which proved to have a mundane explanation .

 

[Cobra]

I’ve no idea about the ones you’ve seen but I’ve seen humongous canine prints in mud which proved to have a mundane explanation .

There is one major difference between a cat and a dog print

 

[sphexx]

Especially with the amount of very expensive kit and the advances of the digital age in photography.

Not so sure about that, most people are carrying mobile phones these days so that will be the likely instrument (or poor security cam, as in this thread). I haven’t tried but have you any idea what a video of a puma on the other side of a field is going to look like (portrait orientation of course ) ?

 

[sphexx]

There is one major difference between a cat and a dog print

Yes, I wasn’t implying ’yours’ was a dog print! I meant that prints can get a lot bigger in mud and anyway can be surprisingly large.

 

[Cobra]

Not so sure about that, most people are carrying mobile phones these days so that will be the likely instrument

And a lot of photographer are out in the wilds ( Scotland for example) with very expensive kit.

 

[LCPete]

I think that’s an unreasonable expectation — if there are, hypothetically, one or two “big cats in the U.K. where would you site the cameras? If ”it” regularly appeared somewhere or had a regular route or there were a lot of them (unlikely) it would be different,

I know what you’re saying and I’m not saying there’s not any big cats in the uk , certainly would be amazing if we had Lynx, I’m just saying that I’m surprised that with so many wildlife photographers around in the uk that nobody has taken a decent quality image

 

[Cobra]

I know what you’re saying and I’m not saying there’s not any big cats in the uk , certainly would be amazing if we had Lynx, I’m just saying that I’m surprised that with so many wildlife photographers around in the uk that nobody has taken a decent quality image

That was my point, but explained better

 

[Gremlin]

There is one major difference between a cat and a dog print

Unless it's a cheetah

 

[sphexx]

I know what you’re saying and I’m not saying there’s not any big cats in the uk , certainly would be amazing if we had Lynx, I’m just saying that I’m surprised that with so many wildlife photographers around in the uk that nobody has taken a decent quality image

I just feel, without knowing the numbers, that is unreasonable. What does surprise me it that when there are alleged sightings or sheep etc killed, it seems no one goes and looks for hair etc samples (DNA) or take a suitable dog(s) to try to track the alleged beast .

 

[Pound Coin]

View attachment 329909
What did it receive its citation for?

Biting.

 

[Tringa]

Assuming no one is still releasing non native animals into the countryside(the DWA Act 1976 was said to result in some owners releasing their animals) then we must, if the accounts of sightings are to be believed, breeding populations of a number of animals, so it seems odd we don't see more of them.

I reckon, without any evidence to back it up, most of the sightings are mistaken identity or hoaxes.

Dave

 

[Gremlin]

I reckon, without any evidence to back it up, most of the sightings are mistaken identity or hoaxes.

Or zoo/private collection escapees that don't get reported

 

[the black fox]

I have kept out of this till now .. but back in the 90’s my main hobby was metal detecting , myself and a friend popped down to a farm we had permission on close to wenlock edge in Shropshire .I spotted a freshly harvested field on arrival with bales of hay stacked in it . I started my search of the field and as I rounded a haystack ,lying on a hedge about 30 feet away was a full grown black panther/puma no mistaking it 3 foot long tail and all .I had a detector strapped to my right arm and a garden spade in my left .
I froze to the spot the only thing that went through my head was Davy Crockett stared out a bear ,so I did the same after about 30 seconds ? The beast jumped down to the other side of the hedge and was gone .
I reported this to the farmer who told me he had been losing sheep for a couple of weeks . There were also lots of sightings of this animal reported in the Shropshire star paper in the following weeks .

There is most definetly a population of big cats roaming our countryside till one is captured the doubters will continue to mock .but I for one never doubt the reports

 

[davholla]

I have kept out of this till now .. but back in the 90’s my main hobby was metal detecting , myself and a friend popped down to a farm we had permission on close to wenlock edge in Shropshire .I spotted a freshly harvested field on arrival with bales of hay stacked in it . I started my search of the field and as I rounded a haystack ,lying on a hedge about 30 feet away was a full grown black panther/puma no mistaking it 3 foot long tail and all .I had a detector strapped to my right arm and a garden spade in my left .
I froze to the spot the only thing that went through my head was Davy Crockett stared out a bear ,so I did the same after about 30 seconds ? The beast jumped down to the other side of the hedge and was gone .
I reported this to the farmer who told me he had been losing sheep for a couple of weeks . There were also lots of sightings of this animal reported in the Shropshire star paper in the following weeks .

There is most definetly a population of big cats roaming our countryside till one is captured the doubters will continue to mock .but I for one never doubt the reports

For me I would be convinced by DNA evidence at the sight of puma attack - although could be faked I guess.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

There is most definetly a population of big cats roaming our countryside till one is captured the doubters will continue to mock .but I for one never doubt the reports

The confirmed cases of non-domestic felines in the UK are invariably escapes...

• 1903: a Canadian Lynx shot in Devon. Examination of its teeth strongly suggest a long term captive diet,
• 1980: a Puma captured in Inverness-shire. Both condition and behaviour indicated that it had been raised by humans.
• 1989: a Jungle Cat was killed in a collision with a car. As the animal's habitat doesn't extend as far West as Europe, this was almost certainly an escape.
• 1991: a Eurasian Lynx shot in Norfolk. It was generally believed to be an escape from a Norfolk breeding facility.
• 1994: a large feline was shot on the Isle of White. As the killing was originally concealed, the police had to accept reports that the animal was an Ocelot or Serval.
• 1996: Police in Fintona, County Tyrone shot a feline later identified as a Caracal. Again, this was clearly an escape.
• 2001: Police captured an escaped Eurasian Lynx.
• 2017: A report of council workers placing the body of a large feline into a truck on the A1 near Harworth were incorrect. the carcass was actually a large black dog.

So far, DNA evidence from alleged "big cat" kills have revealed only fox or dog attacks. A 1993 video purporting to show "The Beast of Bodmin" actually recorded a domestic black cat approximately 12" at the shoulder.

 

[the black fox]

The confirmed cases of non-domestic felines in the UK are invariably escapes...

• 1903: a Canadian Lynx shot in Devon. Examination of its teeth strongly suggest a long term captive diet,
• 1980: a Puma captured in Inverness-shire. Both condition and behaviour indicated that it had been raised by humans.
• 1989: a Jungle Cat was killed in a collision with a car. As the animal's habitat doesn't extend as far West as Europe, this was almost certainly an escape.
• 1991: a Eurasian Lynx shot in Norfolk. It was generally believed to be an escape from a Norfolk breeding facility.
• 1994: a large feline was shot on the Isle of White. As the killing was originally concealed, the police had to accept reports that the animal was an Ocelot or Serval.
• 1996: Police in Fintona, County Tyrone shot a feline later identified as a Caracal. Again, this was clearly an escape.
• 2001: Police captured an escaped Eurasian Lynx.
• 2017: A report of council workers placing the body of a large feline into a truck on the A1 near Harworth were incorrect. the carcass was actually a large black dog.

So far, DNA evidence from alleged "big cat" kills have revealed only fox or dog attacks. A 1993 video purporting to show "The Beast of Bodmin" actually recorded a domestic black cat approximately 12" at the shoulder.

Let’s put this straight before you go any further my sighting was not a domestic cat ,fox or lynx . It was at around 30 feet distance in broad daylight and sunny . I don’t need the proof I’m not imaging it ..it was a full grown pure black panther/ puma .. no mistaking it the whole incident lasted around 30-60 seconds .
I’m not inclined to make up stories this was factual ,you can believe it or not that’s your prerogative .but rest assured it happened and I don’t need dna to prove it .the hedge was around 4 feet high and it’s tail nearly touched the floor .I would be willing to take a lie detector test on this matter .