Advice on developer for B&W

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I am about to start developing and scanning my own black and white films, but I am unsure which developer to go for.
I will be mostly shooting Ilford FP4 and Acros 100, and want to keep grain to a minimum, with a nice range of tones and decent sharpness.
I would prefer a liquid developer.
Can anyone help me with this?
Many thanks in advance
 
I am about to start developing and scanning my own black and white films, but I am unsure which developer to go for.
I will be mostly shooting Ilford FP4 and Acros 100, and want to keep grain to a minimum, with a nice range of tones and decent sharpness.
I would prefer a liquid developer.
Can anyone help me with this?
Many thanks in advance
Hi, I am about to do the same, I have a couple of Agfa Rondinax tanks and have ordered some Ars-Imago monobath to ease into it. I have various films in 120 and 35mm, some Agfapan APX 100 in my TLRs and some Bergger Pancro 400 in my SQ-A and a roll of FP4 waiting for the bath. I have some 35mm Rollei RPX waiting too and some HP5. I also have a variety of film loaded in SLRs.

I recently decided to try as many different film types and brands as I could, which made me realise I need to start developing my own. I don't have room for a darkroom, couldn't wait until May for a Lab-box, so I bought the things it took it's design from Agfa's Rondinax 60 and 35U. One advantage being that it only uses about 200-250ml of reusable monobath.

There is an app for apple or android smartphone called film developer pro it's £4.99 for the paid version but there is a free version too. This has a list of developers which have been tried with the films along with times for various dilutions and pushing/pulling the film. Maybe this will help.
 
Hi, I am about to do the same, I have a couple of Agfa Rondinax tanks and have ordered some Ars-Imago monobath to ease into it. I have various films in 120 and 35mm, some Agfapan APX 100 in my TLRs and some Bergger Pancro 400 in my SQ-A and a roll of FP4 waiting for the bath. I have some 35mm Rollei RPX waiting too and some HP5. I also have a variety of film loaded in SLRs.

I recently decided to try as many different film types and brands as I could, which made me realise I need to start developing my own. I don't have room for a darkroom, couldn't wait until May for a Lab-box, so I bought the things it took it's design from Agfa's Rondinax 60 and 35U. One advantage being that it only uses about 200-250ml of reusable monobath.

There is an app for apple or android smartphone called film developer pro it's £4.99 for the paid version but there is a free version too. This has a list of developers which have been tried with the films along with times for various dilutions and pushing/pulling the film. Maybe this will help.
Blimey, you don't do things by half! Thanks for the tip on the app [emoji106]
 
I use ilford Ilfotech lc39 which produces very little grain and is a liquid.

I also use an app, the Massive Dev Chart, this also gives you a huge amount of information and a timer to help with agitation times during development.

Good luck, its an amazing thing when you open the tank and there are images on the film. :)
 
Just like "what's the best film", this question has mostly opinions and few facts, AFAICS. I started using Ilfosol 3, just because it was there when I bought my chems, and have not been persuaded to change it yet, even though it's clear some other developers have advantages. I did find a guy called RichardPickup, who I thnk is a lecturer in photography, who has done some actual experiments, the results of which he has published. He uses a standard scene of pebbles stuck to a card, and the gallery is here. Studying that, I can't see significant differences that would persuade me to change!
 
H'mm Chris are these tests from bottle chemicals? well just from observation and logic with no need for any one's experience .....he doesn't show any crops and for logic he is inferring that all brews invented for the last say 70 years are all the same and you can see no difference. o_O
 
H'mm Chris are these tests from bottle chemicals? well just from observation and logic with no need for any one's experience .....he doesn't show any crops and for logic he is inferring that all brews invented for the last say 70 years are all the same and you can see no difference. o_O
You'd have to read his other posts to find the answers. I don't think he's implying what you say; I am inferring it, to an extent, but it's clear that others have a more discerning eye for grain, contrast, acutance, the "long shoulder" of tone transitions, etc etc.

In the end, I think it's worth finding one or two developers you like and sticking with them. One of the various forms of Rodinal seems to be in most people's cupboard. Kodak HC110 seems popular; I nearly went for it myself but it's quite expensive (if very economical and long lasting).
 
There are differences between developers; but then there are differences between films as well. Picking them out will depend on how familiar you are with how each film reacts to differences in subject contrast, subject matter (fine detail; large areas of continuous tone etc.) and light levels (how much latitude do you have with normal subjects etc.). In my case, I lack that experience, because I imbibed the philosophy that the bigger variables lay outside those of the film (given modern films) and the work was best expended getting to know a limited range. The differences between developers pretty much follow the same lines; like film, you can get fine grain or greater film speed, but with the addition of acutance effects to increase apparent sharpness. PhotoShop's unsharp mask works in the same way as an acutance developer with the same byproduct (grain if a developer, noise/artefacts if PhotoShop).

Developers are traditionally listed as fine grain, speed increasing or acutance. Fine grain usually means lower film speed and less acutance, increased speed means more grain (which can increase apparent sharpness). Acutance usually means increased grain. The best all round performaner is generally reckoned to be ID11/D76, a powder developer that I've used once in the nearly 60 years I've been developing - and that some time in the early 1960s.

The only developer I've used that made a really obvious difference was Acutol (no longer made) compared to Unitol (no longer made - my former standard developer) and even then only really obvious on one set of photographs of a church exterior in contrasty lighting where the stones stood out as if in 3D.

These days I use Agfa Rodinal (bought before it disappeared - it does last even if R09 doesn't) which is acutance but not fine grain. I wouldn't use it if I were using 35mm film though; it's OK on roll film and above at the print sizes I make (usually A3 or A2).

Discerning differences properly is going to require completely standardised processing (time, temperature and agitation); standard subjects (test charts and step wedges); and densitometer and microscope to examine the results. All this is too much like hard work for me, when in practice I get the results that satisfy me without going to so much effort in testing every combination. After all, developer dilution affects the results as well...

My advice would be to try a middle of the road developer with 35mm and avoid acutance or speed increasing ones if fine grain is your aim.

Finally (sorry to be lengthy) if you want to see the differences between Rodinal (Agfa original) with and without additives compared to T Max developer, the very first issue of SIlverprint magazine (and the only one under that title - it changed name to Ag after the first issue) had a review with vastly enlarged sections of fine detail. I've placed the scans here.
 
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Unitol (no longer made

Well after trying many developers I settled for Unitol as it was convenient from a bottle and using marbles to keep the air out and gave great results with FP4.....before I developed my own I used to get excellent results from one place (early sixties) anyway asks the guy what he uses and it was microdol...well if it was the best developer ever, then why isn't every one using\used it and all other brews dropped out by now...just a thought that doesn't need an answer.
 
Well after trying many developers I settled for Unitol as it was convenient from a bottle and using marbles to keep the air out and gave great results with FP4.....before I developed my own I used to get excellent results from one place (early sixties) anyway asks the guy what he uses and it was microdol...well if it was the best developer ever, then why isn't every one using\used it and all other brews dropped out by now...just a thought that doesn't need an answer.

As is often the case eh Brian. :D
 
As is often the case eh Brian. :D

Another thought Andy is in the sixties there were more amateurs developing B\W and more developing by each amateur.....but now noticed quite a few want a developer that lasts longer as fewer films are being done.
 
When digital turned up, it wasn't long before nobody gave a stuff about fine grain developers regardless of how good they were, hence their disappearance.
Format has a decent bearing on grain visibility, the smaller the format the more apparent the grain.
I've used a lot of one shots, all of them produce grain to some degree or another, I didn't find one that was fine enough for me.
I'm also chucking out the window, economy of use and longevity because those factors don't feature on my care list, I just want fine grain negs no matter what...:)

Xtol / end
 
When digital turned up, it wasn't long before nobody gave a stuff about fine grain developers regardless of how good they were, hence their disappearance.
Format has a decent bearing on grain visibility, the smaller the format the more apparent the grain.
I've used a lot of one shots, all of them produce grain to some degree or another, I didn't find one that was fine enough for me.
I'm also chucking out the window, economy of use and longevity because those factors don't feature on my care list, I just want fine grain negs no matter what...:)

Xtol / end

Seconding this.

XTOL for everything. One shot it @ 1:1, can't be bothered to re-use/replenish it (although that's supposed to be pretty good/economical). The other developers are just gathering dust at the moment.
 
Seconding this.

XTOL for everything. One shot it @ 1:1, can't be bothered to re-use/replenish it (although that's supposed to be pretty good/economical). The other developers are just gathering dust at the moment.
Forgive my ignorance - I'm new to this - but what does "one shot it" mean?
 
Seconding this.

XTOL for everything. One shot it @ 1:1, can't be bothered to re-use/replenish it (although that's supposed to be pretty good/economical). The other developers are just gathering dust at the moment.

How are you doing that Lloyd, one shotting xtol I mean, because it strikes me that anything can be used like a one shot if you are prepared to make the effort to set it up that way.
Powdered devs only need mixing once after all.
 
Forgive my ignorance - I'm new to this - but what does "one shot it" mean?

A one shot dev is usually a liquid that can be used straight out the bottle, once......with dillution of course.
Xtol, D76 and a few others are powdered devs that need to be mixed, mixing for one roll of film is not viable especially if its a 2 part mix, so you have to mix the whole nine yards all at once and make good plans for storage if you aren't going to use it all there and then..:)
 
A one shot dev is usually a liquid that can be used straight out the bottle, once......with dillution of course.
Xtol, D76 and a few others are powdered devs that need to be mixed, mixing for one roll of film is not viable especially if its a 2 part mix, so you have to mix the whole nine yards all at once and make good plans for storage if you aren't going to use it all there and then..:)
Ah, thanks very much
 
How are you doing that Lloyd, one shotting xtol I mean, because it strikes me that anything can be used like a one shot if you are prepared to make the effort to set it up that way.
Powdered devs only need mixing once after all.

Exactly like you described, I have stock solution mixed up a day or so before I plan on developing everything. It's not a true one shot like Rodinal with high dilutions but I tend to develop in batches of 10-20 rolls at a time so it might as well be.

Forgive my ignorance - I'm new to this - but what does "one shot it" mean?

One shots are where you mix up a working solution and then discard it after use. Some people like to stretch the number of films they develop with a batch of developer, so they use it fresh once, then re-use it again with a longer development time to compensate for the slightly used up chemicals.
 
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I'm not going to be developing large numbers of rolls at time so it sounds like using XTOL might not work for me
 
Exactly like you described, I have stock solution mixed up a day or so before I plan on developing everything. It's not a true one shot like Rodinal with high dilutions but I tend to develop in batches of 10-20 rolls at a time so it might as well be.

Ah, well I use it like you would a one shot, I can't be doing a 20 roll session it would smash me to bits, mebbe 3 rolls or 2 fills of a 3 roll tank for 6 rolls, max, but I could easily do just one.
I mix up my Xtol and bottle it in 250ml glass bottles, makes about 20 stock, my tanks are system 4 so 500ml working solution per film, I don't even have to measure it out its one bottle of stock chucked in 250ml of water per film, just like using a one shot...simplez

only last 6 months though

and the washing up is treeeeeeeemendous
 
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