Advice re selling prints in a shop

smr

smr

Messages
1,892
Name
Joel
Edit My Images
No
Hi guys,

I'm going to be selling my prints in a 'bricks and mortar' shop which my sister owns, and I'm after some advice as to how the best way to go about this is, as I'm very new to printing and presentation.

If I were to sell A3 prints should I sell them without a border (edge to edge) or with a border, and if so should the actual size including the border be A3 or just the actual image A3?

I'm going to get them printed by a lab, and mounted so that they've got some rigidity, because If I don't then I think paper prints will just get creased easily.

Should I get them mounted and matted, or just mounted and let my customer then get them matted (and perhaps framed) if they desire

Thanks for any advice
 
You could get them printed with a white border which allow them to be mounted without losing the edges of the images.

As far as I am aware mounting and matting means the same thing. You can buy "mount kits" at a very reasonable price from Kadinsky; this consists of the precut mount (with window), a backing board and a bag. In this case it might be best to have borderless prints made in case the borders don't work perfectly with the mount windows. (I've been there!)

Let the customer do the framing - or you could have a couple framed for display purposes if the rest of them are in a print bin. But it might be a good idea to use standard frame sizes as the outer dimensions of the mounts/backing boards. I think Kadinsky does this.

Hope this is clear.

https://www.kadinsky.co.uk/Kadinsky link -
 
Last edited:
I would suggest mounting them so that they can be fitted in a standard frame size, the sort of frames that Supermarkets and homewares chains sell and include the frame size on the packaging for the print - e.g. 'Fits a 20x16" frame'.
 
smr said:
Hi guys,

I'm going to be selling my prints in a 'bricks and mortar' shop which my sister owns, and I'm after some advice as to how the best way to go about this is, as I'm very new to printing and presentation.

If I were to sell A3 prints should I sell them without a border (edge to edge) or with a border, and if so should the actual size including the border be A3 or just the actual image A3?

I'm going to get them printed by a lab, and mounted so that they've got some rigidity, because If I don't then I think paper prints will just get creased easily.

Should I get them mounted and matted, or just mounted and let my customer then get them matted (and perhaps framed) if they desire

Thanks for any advice
Click to expand...

Why A3? The likes of A3 & A4 (1.41 : 1 ratio) are not 'natural' aspect ratios in regard to sensor ratio of almost all dSLR and mirror less camera @ 3:2 (1.5 : 1) I ratio

Having said that you can crop images to taste as needed.

ecoleman said:
You should leave a border to assist with framing otherwise the only option is to cut off part of the image when mounting.
Click to expand...

Absolutely and IMO it is best to mount them (mat & backboard) though I mount all prints in white mounts there is a school of thought that the choice of mount colour should compliment the subject pallette.

NB selling un-mounted prints, they will still need a stiffening board in the cellophane bag to avoid/reduce risk of damage to the print.

jerry12953 said:
You could get them printed with a white border which allow them to be mounted without losing the edges of the images.

As far as I am aware mounting and matting means the same thing. You can buy "mount kits" at a very reasonable price from Kadinsky; this consists of the precut mount (with window), a backing board and a bag. In this case it might be best to have borderless prints made in case the borders don't work perfectly with the mount windows. (I've been there!)

Let the customer do the framing - or you could have a couple framed for display purposes if the rest of them are in a print bin. But it might be a good idea to use standard frame sizes as the outer dimensions of the mounts/backing boards. I think Kadinsky does this.

Hope this is clear.

https://www.kadinsky.co.uk/Kadinsky link -
Click to expand...

IMO if an image is worth selling it should not be constrained by 'off the shelf ' odd photographic ratio mounts. Custom made mounts are worth the picture.

Lastly and FWIW subject to the "subject matter" the buyers can be very fickle........so the primary question is......what subjects are you planning on printing and why do you think they should sell e.g. coastal location of the shop and village & coastal sunset pictures???
 
I think mounting and matting are different - mounting is where you had a the image with a backing board for rigidity and matting is where you have a border which is thicker than the the photo - to enable space between the photo and the frame?

If I were to get them printed A4/A3 size to fit Ribba frames, for instance, then there would be no point printing them with a border would there, as they images would fit directly into the frames with the included matting card
 
sirch said:
I would suggest mounting them so that they can be fitted in a standard frame size, the sort of frames that Supermarkets and homewares chains sell and include the frame size on the packaging for the print - e.g. 'Fits a 20x16" frame'.
Click to expand...
Yes, depending on the market.

I had custom mounts made with outside dimensions to fit e.g. a 12 x 8 inch print in a mount to to fit a 60cm x 40cm frame. Latterly, because the off the shelf frames went 'cheap' and put styrene glazing in, I bought custom frames with acrylic glazing.

Edit ~ Ribba frames was one that went from glass to styrene :(
 
Last edited:
Box Brownie said:
Why A3? The likes of A3 & A4 (1.41 : 1 ratio) are not 'natural' aspect ratios in regard to sensor ratio of almost all dSLR and mirror less camera @ 3:2 (1.5 : 1) I ratio

Having said that you can crop images to taste as needed.
Click to expand...

Because frames which fit A3 photos (with the included border matting card) seem to be quite common don't they?

Like this from Ikea which an A4 borderless photo would fit into

1699879223484.png
 
smr said:
Because frames which fit A3 photos (with the included border matting card) seem to be quite common don't they?

Like this from Ikea which an A4 borderless photo would fit into

View attachment 406489
Click to expand...

If I were buying a piece of art it certainly wouldn't be put in a cheap Ikea frame with plastic "glass" but I suppose it really depends on your target market.
 
smr said:
Because frames which fit A3 photos (with the included border matting card) seem to be quite common don't they?

Like this from Ikea which an A4 borderless photo would fit into

View attachment 406489
Click to expand...
As I mentioned, print ratio & cropping etc is a photographer choice.

In regard to border or border less, the border allows for mounting the picture in the mat with as little (approx 3mm so that the border is not visible) hidden by the mat and attaching it using T-hinges to let the paper breath. You do not want to attach the print 'rigidly' to the mat or backing board unless it is stuck down across its whole surface area to the backing.

Are you intending the prints to have a longish life? If so please be aware of the pigment vs dye variation in longevity plus the risk of IMO not using acid free backing board.

PS if you intend to print your own, borderless printing will be chucking a lot of overspray into the non user replaceable pads in the printer = shorter printer life.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: smr
There has been some great advice and tips here... Tips I can give are....
Don't use plastic or styrene. I have had customers reject a sale because of this.
I cut my own mount cards. Easy to do and does not restrict you to precut windows
Find a local framer. They can apply huge discounts on bulk and regular orders.
 
smr said:
How much border would you leave for mounting the picture in the mat?
Click to expand...
IMO a minimum of 13mm though larger is better......and ensure that the tape used to T hinge it is pH neutral

PS IIRC I had some larger prints made with a 30mm border.
 
Last edited:
Box Brownie said:
IMO a minimum of 13mm though larger is better......and ensure that the tape used to T hinge it is pH neutral

PS IIRC I had some larger prints made with a 30mm border.
Click to expand...

So if for instance I order an A3 print from Simlab, ie. clicking on their A3 mounted print size - I'd have to make sure that the physical dimensions of my uploaded image is A3 with the 13mm white border included in that? So the actual photograph is 13mm smaller on all sides?
 
smr said:
So if for instance I order an A3 print from Simlab, ie. clicking on their A3 mounted print size - I'd have to make sure that the physical dimensions of my uploaded image is A3 with the 13mm white border included in that? So the actual photograph is 13mm smaller on all sides?
Click to expand...
I can only tell what I have done and will continue to do in future.

For example I want a 12 x 8 inch print
I post process to produce at suitable file at 300dpi resolution
I use @Tradecanvasprint to make the prints and they automatically add a 13 mm border to the print. NB wider border is available at a modest extra charge.
I but custom mounts, in the order process you state the print size and outer dimensions. NB they automatically reduce the mat aperture by 3mm all round for the aforementioned reasons.

So, if the printer you intend to use does not automatically add the border .......then on the assumption that the printed area is intended to be 12x8 inches you will need to add the border/expand the canvas in post processing and buy the larger bordered print to yield the 12x8 printed area
 
I'm thinking about selling some also. But think I'm gonna display them framed in my own frames and leave a few copies of the photo in case someone likes the photo but not the frame. Still the price for a 13x19 photo sounds high to me. Cost's me, $11.28 for the paper and ink. Got the price of ink off the internet at .04 cents per sq inch. Multiply time's 3 and it's $33.84! Seems like a lot of mark up to me but don't know!
 
Don Fischer said:
I'm thinking about selling some also. But think I'm gonna display them framed in my own frames and leave a few copies of the photo in case someone likes the photo but not the frame. Still the price for a 13x19 photo sounds high to me. Cost's me, $11.28 for the paper and ink. Got the price of ink off the internet at .04 cents per sq inch. Multiply time's 3 and it's $33.84! Seems like a lot of mark up to me but don't know!
Click to expand...
IIRC you make your frames from recovered wood but what about your time involved in creating (taking & pp'ing the images) and the frame making. Surely when you account for that, at a minimum at least an a x3 mark up makes sense to you?
 
Box Brownie said:
IIRC you make your frames from recovered wood but what about your time involved in creating (taking & pp'ing the images) and the frame making. Surely when you account for that, at a minimum at least an a x3 mark up makes sense to you?
Click to expand...
I'm sure your right. Problem is I get the wood from piles of wood destine to be burned. My glass usually comes off remodel jobs and cost's me nothing. Foam core I got off the computer in 30x40 sheets for about $5 a sheet. One sheet will do two or three pictures! All the tools I already have and have had over 30 yrs. According to Social Security, my time is worth about $13 an hour and in an hour I can put together several frames. Three frames an hour is about $4 an hour. Where the value comes in in them is I'm the only one around doing them with old material someone else wants to burn! I feel I might really be shafting people if I charged to much. Just came up with a new one I make from old discarded fence pickets, two frames in one. Old paint on them and i brush with a wire brush to remove the loose paint and really like them. I really like the frames I make but for some reason feel like selling them is selling someone else trash. On the up side folks that let me go get photo's of old buildings I give a blown up framed photo to. They all seem to really like them but then they are free, do they really like them? I have looked at manufactured frame material and the cost floors me. Now there is where the real money is. But you need the machines to run the stuff through. I seem to recall a 8' piece several years ago that was about $10, wow! I'm pretty sure I could not make a good enough living to support myself doing this but I do it because I enjoy it.

Photo of the new picket fence frame I made. For a really early 1900 barn.

Lgwh9rPh.jpg


Had a guy tell me it was worth $300 but I have about an hours work in it is all. The glass came off a re-model site about 8 miles from home. Got $5.90 into paper and ink and maybe $2 in foam core back. I can't see $300 for that.
 
Don Fischer said:
I'm sure your right. Problem is I get the wood from piles of wood destine to be burned. My glass usually comes off remodel jobs and cost's me nothing. Foam core I got off the computer in 30x40 sheets for about $5 a sheet. One sheet will do two or three pictures! All the tools I already have and have had over 30 yrs. According to Social Security, my time is worth about $13 an hour and in an hour I can put together several frames. Three frames an hour is about $4 an hour. Where the value comes in in them is I'm the only one around doing them with old material someone else wants to burn! I feel I might really be shafting people if I charged to much. Just came up with a new one I make from old discarded fence pickets, two frames in one. Old paint on them and i brush with a wire brush to remove the loose paint and really like them. I really like the frames I make but for some reason feel like selling them is selling someone else trash. On the up side folks that let me go get photo's of old buildings I give a blown up framed photo to. They all seem to really like them but then they are free, do they really like them? I have looked at manufactured frame material and the cost floors me. Now there is where the real money is. But you need the machines to run the stuff through. I seem to recall a 8' piece several years ago that was about $10, wow! I'm pretty sure I could not make a good enough living to support myself doing this but I do it because I enjoy it.

Photo of the new picket fence frame I made. For a really early 1900 barn.

Lgwh9rPh.jpg


Had a guy tell me it was worth $300 but I have about an hours work in it is all. The glass came off a re-model site about 8 miles from home. Got $5.90 into paper and ink and maybe $2 in foam core back. I can't see $300 for that.
Click to expand...
Don

The value of something artistic is not simply the cost of materials & time + margin.

Consider this, an apprentice mechanic is paid less than the fully qualified one or the newly qualified doctor is paid less than the consultant.

Why? well possibly stating the obvious experience brings rewards to the skilled.

No one can tell you how to price your works, you may even be content to give them away because your living costs are covered well by your pension.

Be content with what you do but IMO just be conscious that if folk like your creations enough to pay you for them............do not sell yourself short because "you" don't think they are worth it! NB if you look up Kevin Raber PhotoPXL website he has various articles of the photo workshops of his Palouse photography. I surmise his works sell for a decent coin.

All the best with your photo sales endeavours:)
 
Don Fischer said:
Had a guy tell me it was worth $300 but I have about an hours work in it is all. The glass came off a re-model site about 8 miles from home. Got $5.90 into paper and ink and maybe $2 in foam core back. I can't see $300 for that.
Click to expand...

Your art is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it but here is some food for thought.

www.ebaumsworld.com

15 Ridiculous Pieces Of Art That Sold For Millions Of Dollars

Meanwhile in the countries with first world problems.
www.ebaumsworld.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5gFDwtgl1E&t=86s
 
Last edited:
Sell them with a border

although a3 or a4 are not natural sizes, it is the size a general customer will understand and they will fit off the shelf frames, which are far more reasonable cost wise.
 
Well for the print I added three times what it cost me. Turns out that 300%!Figure out the time and gas I have into getting them and I don't think that's so bad. Don't know if they will sell of not though.

Figure at 300% markup this 12x24 is $38. I don't know, is it worth it? Add $75 for the double frame

Lgwh9rPl.jpg
 
Don Fischer said:
Well for the print I added three times what it cost me. Turns out that 300%!Figure out the time and gas I have into getting them and I don't think that's so bad. Don't know if they will sell of not though.

Figure at 300% markup this 12x24 is $38. I don't know, is it worth it? Add $75 for the double frame

Lgwh9rPl.jpg
Click to expand...
I have always had the mindset in regard to potential sales as 'anticipation not expectation'!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top