Af or tv????

chez1980

chez1980

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Hi all, ivd been using av setting on my canon eos 1100d since doing a course earlier this year but today ive been told tv is better? Is this correct, I'm mainly into portraits x
 
I normally put it like this:

Av = f/stop priority = non moving subjects
Tv = shutter priority = sports
 
No one mode is better than another. TV is not better than AV - they are just different.

For portraits you primarily want to control aperture , so I would recommend you stick with AV. But when shooting AV you need to keep an eye on your shutter speed to ensure it doesn't drop too low
 
RichardtheSane said:
No one mode is better than another. TV is not better than AV - they are just different.

For portraits you primarily want to control aperture , so I would recommend you stick with AV. But when shooting AV you need to keep an eye on your shutter speed to ensure it doesn't drop too low
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Thank you, I totally confused after speaking to someone else? Just to clarify how do I change my shutter speed, I've been told so many different things I am totally messed up! I'd just thought I'd got the hang of things until now when I've been told I'm doing it wrong? Is f11 best for portraits? Should shutter speed be over 1/60? If its below just I up ISo??

Sorry to sound silly but feel in a right mess being told different things x
 
Sorry to sound vague again here, but there is no 'Best' aperture for a portrait. It does depend on what sort of portraits you are doing and what effect you want to achieve.

If you want to throw more of the background out of focus then you need to use a wider aperture (Such as F4 or F5.6). However in doing so there is a chance some of your subject may also be out of focus due to the shallower depth of field

F11 will get the entire shot much sharper but you will not throw the background out of focus as much as if you used... say... F5.6. I usually pick F5.6 as a starting point for portraits and only up the aperture if I need to in order to get enough depth of field for the subject to be sharp.

You are good to aim for a shutter speed above 1/60th and depending on how active your subject is it never hurts to have a higher speed either!

The thing about photography is there are, to coin a phrase, many ways to skin a cat. Understanding the effect changing aperture will have on you shot will go a long way in helping YOU decide what is the best aperture for YOUR shots.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Sorry to sound vague again here, but there is no 'Best' aperture for a portrait. It does depend on what sort of portraits you are doing and what effect you want to achieve.

If you want to throw more of the background out of focus then you need to use a wider aperture (Such as F4 or F5.6). However in doing so there is a chance some of your subject may also be out of focus due to the shallower depth of field

F11 will get the entire shot much sharper but you will not throw the background out of focus as much as if you used... say... F5.6. I usually pick F5.6 as a starting point for portraits and only up the aperture if I need to in order to get enough depth of field for the subject to be sharp.

You are good to aim for a shutter speed above 1/60th and depending on how active your subject is it never hurts to have a higher speed either!

The thing about photography is there are, to coin a phrase, many ways to skin a cat. Understanding the effect changing aperture will have on you shot will go a long way in helping YOU decide what is the best aperture for YOUR shots.
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Thank you again, just feel that everything I learnt was wrong?? I was using f5.6 or f8 and trying to achieve 1/60 or above, if if was below I upped the iso? But now ivd been told that's all wrong so baffled x
 
I would have thought AV is more suited to portature unless your subject is moving around alot or you wanna freeze the subject so Tv would probably be better.

Depends most portrait photographers like to be in control of their apeture for creative effects but then again i suppose most would probably use Manual so as to keep the exposure more or less the same for continuity.
 
chez1980 said:
Thank you again, just feel that everything I learnt was wrong?? I was using f5.6 or f8 and trying to achieve 1/60 or above, if if was below I upped the iso? But now ivd been told that's all wrong so baffled x
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to be honest i must be wrong as well, i would perhaps go somewhere between F8 and F11 depending on depth of field, if i wanted something really shallow would set the aperture as low as needed to get the results i wanted, and then use the iso to get the shutter speed i wanted
 
lizzy23 said:
to be honest i must be wrong as well, i would perhaps go somewhere between F8 and F11 depending on depth of field, if i wanted something really shallow would set the aperture as low as needed to get the results i wanted, and then use the iso to get the shutter speed i wanted
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I'm completely confused agen now but will try both settings I think as my kids do moved around a fair bit lol cxx
 
chez1980 said:
I'm completely confused agen now but will try both settings I think as my kids do moved around a fair bit lol cxx
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at the end of the day, if you're happy with the results that you're getting then there is no right or wrong, for me if i was shooting that sort of thing i would use AV, i only use TV when i'm shooting the dogs running round at 300 miles an hr
 
lizzy23 said:
at the end of the day, if you're happy with the results that you're getting then there is no right or wrong, for me if i was shooting that sort of thing i would use AV, i only use TV when i'm shooting the dogs running round at 300 miles an hr
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Can you explain the difference with using tv, I was never told about it in my course x
 
RichardtheSane said:
No one mode is better than another. TV is not better than AV - they are just different.
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Not strictly true. Whilst Av will always give you a physically possible shot (as far as the camera is concerned), in Tv mode the camera will occasionally try to select an aperture that the lens isn't capable of.
 
chez1980 said:
Can you explain the difference with using tv, I was never told about it in my course x
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TV means you are in control of the shutter speed. When I am photographing dogs in action I know I need a fast shutter speed in order to correctly freeze the action.

As motion blur will the the primary thing I am trying to avoid I set TV mode and change the shutter speed to 1/1000 sec knowing that will freeze the motion. All the other setting in my mind a secondary to that - i still want a good exposure, correct depth of field and low noise but I MUST freeze the action. Because shutter speed is top priority I set TV (Shutter Priority)

Now the dogs have stopped running and are chilling out, so time for a few portraits. Well they are not moving much now and since they are greyhounds they have quite a long face. I know that in order to get the nose and eyes in focus I will need a minimum of F8 to ensure adequate depth of field. For this shot ensuring the correct depth of field is essential so I set aperture priority and dial in F8. Now I can still use the ISO to ensure my shutter speed is high enough to avoid camera shake - but I don't need to worry about my aperture changing because I set it first.

My long winded way of giving an example of both modes in context. Hope it helps!
 
TV is when you set the shutter speed and the aperture is set automatically by the camera, so for instance if i want to shoot a moving dog i will have the camera in TV i will use TV and using the wheel on the front adjust the shutter to say 1/1000 the camera will set the aperture and i will then adjust the iso to get the correct exposure

In Av you set the Aperture, say F11 and the camera will set the shutter speed and you have to adjust the iso to increase the Shutter speed, for instance i'm looking at mine now and i've set the aperture to F11 and the shutter speed is showing 2 to get the correct exposure by setting the iso to H which is 12800 on the 7D i have it up to 1/250

hope that makes sense
 
I use AV for pretty much everything - except for the occasional artsy shot that needs to be in M

If you understand the relationship between apperture and speed which i'm sure most of us do its easy to shoot movement without switching to TV - the largest possible apperture will get you the fastest possible speed for a given iso - need faster, or need a smaller apperture with the same speed, just bump the iso up , simples

(of course by the same token you could stay in TV all the time and force a large apperture by selecting a fast speed and manipulate the relationship with the ISO in the same way)
 
RichardtheSane said:
TV means you are in control of the shutter speed. When I am photographing dogs in action I know I need a fast shutter speed in order to correctly freeze the action.

As motion blur will the the primary thing I am trying to avoid I set TV mode and change the shutter speed to 1/1000 sec knowing that will freeze the motion. All the other setting in my mind a secondary to that - i still want a good exposure, correct depth of field and low noise but I MUST freeze the action. Because shutter speed is top priority I set TV (Shutter Priority)

Now the dogs have stopped running and are chilling out, so time for a few portraits. Well they are not moving much now and since they are greyhounds they have quite a long face. I know that in order to get the nose and eyes in focus I will need a minimum of F8 to ensure adequate depth of field. For this shot ensuring the correct depth of field is essential so I set aperture priority and dial in F8. Now I can still use the ISO to ensure my shutter speed is high enough to avoid camera shake - but I don't need to worry about my aperture changing because I set it first.

My long winded way of giving an example of both modes in context. Hope it helps!
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Thank you, I will be writing this one down, can you tell me about your description of depth of field please? You seem to explain yourself well, I'm still all new to this and only got my camera 3 months ago, I start a new course in 3 weeks & can't wait.
Also in portraits were should my subject be? I.e my little girl, how far from my back drop and his far I should be away from her? X
 
chez1980 said:
Thank you, I will be writing this one down, can you tell me about your description of depth of field please? You seem to explain yourself well, I'm still all new to this and only got my camera 3 months ago, I start a new course in 3 weeks & can't wait.
Also in portraits were should my subject be? I.e my little girl, how far from my back drop and his far I should be away from her? X
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I'll have a go...

When you focus on something with the camera that object should always be... well.. in focus. It should be sharp.

In addition to the point you focus on there will be a certain distance in front and behind the point you focus on that will also be relatively sharp. In the loosest possible term, depth of field refers to that area in front of, and behind the point you focus that is acceptably sharp.

Using our live in scruffy whippet as an example here

4082721671_749d10da40_z.jpg


You can see his eyes are sharp, and you can also see as you look down his nose by the time you get to the end it is going out of focus. It's no longer acceptably sharp by the time you get to the black bit! His ears are also slipping out of focus too.

So the depth of field is from about half way up his nose to about halfway back over his head. This is what I would call shallow depth of field

Now when it comes to distance from your subject - this is determined a lot by the lens you are using. Assuming the lens you have on your 1100D is the 18-55mm I would recommend setting that in the 45-55mm range to start with.. Then how far you are away from her will really be determined by how much you need to step back to still get your composition right.

When you mention background - are we talking indoors/studio background? Most of my work is outdoors so I tend to try and get my background as blurred as possible - but indoors with a backdrop it may not matter so much.

Best thing to do when it comes to depth of field is experiment. Put something on the carpet, or the patio. Focus on it from about 1 metre away and set the aperture to F8. Then from the same distance take shots at F5.6 and F11. Here you will see how the depth of field changes with aperture.

Shallow depth of field can be quite addictive and you find a lof of people who do portraits end up buying a lens that is even more capable of delivering very shallow depth of field. The Canon 50mm F1.8 is pretty much the cheapest way of achieving this if you don't already have one.

Hope this helps, Apologies if I've waffled on too much!
 
kestral said:
Must be snail racing:LOL:
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Not really. I'm another who uses aperture priority for almost everything. If you keep an eye on your shutter speed what's the problem as if it falls too low you can adjust the aperture or ISO and thus adjust the shutter speed. Job done.

I use aperture priority because thinking about the depth of field I want seems to make sense to me and seems to be the way I visualise an image. I use manual for instances when I want to have total control such as when shooting in conditions in which the camera would make choices that I wouldn't but the great percentage of my shots are in aperture priority.
 
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kestral said:
Must be snail racing:LOL:
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um, no.

equestrian actually.

aperture priority doesnt automatically mean youre limited to static subjects. set the aperture you want to control the DOF and adjust the shutter speed by moving the ISO. if you cant get the shutter speed to the desired speed without too much ISO then alter the aperture.

its pretty basic really, change one setting and itll have an effect on the others so stands to reason you can use any mode for any* shot.

(*unless obviously when you want/need to shoot in manual to force settings)
 
neil_g said:
um, no.

equestrian actually.

aperture priority doesnt automatically mean youre limited to static subjects. set the aperture you want to control the DOF and adjust the shutter speed by moving the ISO. if you cant get the shutter speed to the desired speed without too much ISO then alter the aperture.

its pretty basic really, change one setting and itll have an effect on the others so stands to reason you can use any mode for any* shot.

(*unless obviously when you want/need to shoot in manual to force settings)
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yep this

it alwauys baffles me why people think you can't use AV on moving subjects - imo speaks to not understanding the relationship between apperture, speed, and iso
 
DemiLion said:
Not strictly true. Whilst Av will always give you a physically possible shot (as far as the camera is concerned), in Tv mode the camera will occasionally try to select an aperture that the lens isn't capable of.
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I can't say I've ever experienced this. Surely your camera will just underexpose or overexpose if it runs out of options. This applies to Av or Tv mode.
 
gad-westy said:
I can't say I've ever experienced this. Surely your camera will just underexpose or overexpose if it runs out of options. This applies to Av or Tv mode.
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Nope. Av will always give you a properly exposed shot ( unless you truly biff up the ISO settings and go for 1/8000th+), whereas Tv will allow you to under expose. Motion blur would be a separate issue btw.
 
chez1980 said:
Thank you again, just feel that everything I learnt was wrong?? I was using f5.6 or f8 and trying to achieve 1/60 or above, if if was below I upped the iso? But now ivd been told that's all wrong so baffled x
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Why is this wrong? When in AV or TV mode I review my settings in the darker part of my scene and adjust the ISO so that the aperture & speed are at the minimum I would like them to be
 
DemiLion said:
Nope. Av will always give you a properly exposed shot ( unless you truly biff up the ISO settings and go for 1/8000th+), whereas Tv will allow you to under expose. Motion blur would be a separate issue btw.
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Nope, Av won't always give you a properly exposed shot as you can hit the limit of upper shutter speed.
For example - very bright light, Aperture at 1.7, ISO at 100 and a camera with a lowish max shutter speed.

Okay you would obviously go for a smaller aperture to avoid the upper shutter limit but that is only the same as going for a lower shutter speed to avoid the largest aperture available.
 
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gad-westy said:
I can't say I've ever experienced this. Surely your camera will just underexpose or overexpose if it runs out of options. This applies to Av or Tv mode.
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On bright days it's easy with the D3000.....easy to reach it's 1/4000th maximum at wide apertures on my 1.8 (there are filters, of course - just showing an example of things going the other way). Not often i'll be at 1.8 then, but just saying.

Like Woof Woof, I use Av 90% of the time and thats a running toddler:LOL: Just keep an eye on shutter speed, and adjust aperture where/if required depending. Don't see how Av mode has much to do with the speed of the subject much - it's all a relationship triangle where one side influences the other, it is givign you options and creativity as well.

Personally, I dont go much above ISO 400, but that's because of my camera isnt the best above that and I'm not happy with the noise. Restricts me sometimes, but it's workable and you soon figure out the limitaions are and whether they can be worked around;) (entry level camareas teach you a fair bit!)

Another thing, if you are in Av and using auto ISO check where it set to kick in. You might be wondering why it never goes above ISO 100 automatically, but still keeps your shutter speed at 1/10 :LOL: When I first got into this, it took me a few days to realise. (This is a D3000 so might not apply)
 
ernesto said:
Nope, Av won't always give you a properly exposed shot as you can hit the limit of upper shutter speed.
For example - very bright light, Aperture at 1.7, ISO at 100 and a camera with a lowish max shutter speed.

Okay you would obviously go for a smaller aperture to avoid the upper shutter limit but that is only the same as going for a lower shutter speed to avoid the largest aperture available.
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OK, let's put it another way then...

Ignoring the extremes of wide aperture + high EV/LV shooting, using Tv in the UK is far more likely to put you into a position whereby the camera is not physically capable of taking the shot without underexposing at fairly average sports settings.

Tbh, the majority of people that I see recommending Tv/S are either

not based in the UK
Motorsports guys (where Tv is at it's best)
not sure of what they are doing or trying to achieve.


The only time that I really use it is either for panning (occasionally - often I'm in adjusted Av or M) or for video, where I want a constant shutter speed of 1/50th, but the light is changeable.
 
matthab said:
Av = f/stop priority = non moving subjects
Tv = shutter priority = sports
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Good grief..

90% of sports photographers will NOT use Tv mode and will plumb for Av mode when wanting to use semi auto... go into the sports section on here and ask the question.. the resounding response will be Av mode..
 
I would struggle/feel very unnatural (to me anyway:shrug:) to take pics of my toddler darting around in Tv mode...never mind fast sports. Others might different (?) It's pretty much always Av.

Bet the OP is glad they asked now :LOL:

OP - don't confuse fast objects with requiring a fast shutter....

Look at the other side - What about if I am taking a picture of some snails in my garden then? (really slow snails that are chilling out, playing cards etc:D)....I dont think - slow moving snails, I want a 30 second shutter speed because they have only moved a foot in half hour?? I'm still in Av.

If I wanted a guaranteed speed (say, for panning which I dont do much of), then I might move to Tv.
 
DemiLion said:
OK, let's put it another way then...

Ignoring the extremes of wide aperture + high EV/LV shooting, using Tv in the UK is far more likely to put you into a position whereby the camera is not physically capable of taking the shot without underexposing at fairly average sports settings.
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Yes, they are extremes but the problem still exists and with cameras with relatively slow max shutter it is a problem that can occur (and has to me). Only pointed it out as took umbridge with your "Av will always give you a properly exposed shot" :)
 
DemiLion said:
Nope. Av will always give you a properly exposed shot ( unless you truly biff up the ISO settings and go for 1/8000th+), whereas Tv will allow you to under expose. Motion blur would be a separate issue btw.
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I think you're agreeing with me in that you're giving an example where the camera would overexpose in AV mode. Wouldn't even need to be high iso if it's bright enough and you're using a fast lens.

To be honest though I was really only responding to what you said about the camera trying to select apertures that are unavailable. I've never known that to happen.
 
Twizzel said:
This... I always use AV and shoot horses all summer long, never risk it with TV!
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Yeah, I rarely use TV (or S in my Nikon case). Literally the only example I can think of when I might turn to shutter priority is when panning, when you want a fixed amount of motion blur, no more no less, although even then, I'll often just shoot manual.

What I don't like about shutter priority is that you have to fix a speed rather than setting a min speed. You might want 1/1000 but would be perfectly happy with 1/4000 but the camera will start closing up the aperture instead. You also might have a lens that is soft wide open at 2.8 so want your min. aperture to be F4 but again shutter priority doesn't facilitate this. A or M for me 99% of the time.
 
I shoot a lot of aircraft and I use TV for this so I can manage to get the right amount of prop blur, speed blur or stillness to the image, but most of the time I use a Sigma 150-500 OS for it and it's f6.3 at the wide end so I get enough DOF anyway.
I've recently got into shooting BIF as well, not to a great scale though, so what would you guys recommend for this. I've tried TV and AV and TBH I prefer the TV shots, but as I say, I'm new to this type of shot.
 
modchild said:
I shoot a lot of aircraft and I use TV for this so I can manage to get the right amount of prop blur, speed blur or stillness to the image, but most of the time I use a Sigma 150-500 OS for it and it's f6.3 at the wide end so I get enough DOF anyway.
I've recently got into shooting BIF as well, not to a great scale though, so what would you guys recommend for this. I've tried TV and AV and TBH I prefer the TV shots, but as I say, I'm new to this type of shot.
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Your plane prop example is a good example of where Tv is perfect as you want a particular shutter speed to show prop movement but keep the plane sharp so you control that.

The thing is, is that whether you use Av or Tv won't necessarily dictate what the finished article looks like as you could end with identical settings regardless. In your bird example though, I'd personally just use Av, crank the aperture as wide as you're happy with (6.3 if you're happy with the sharpness) and then just dial in the iso until your shutter speeds are up into the zone you want to be, probably 1/1000+. Or alternatively if you're shooting in the same spot and the light is reasonable constant, maybe just switch to manual once you have the exposure nailed. Many ways to skin a cat and all that.
 
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