Airport Security

[swiftflo]

Further to my original posting.

Now back from hols. and I do a diservice to the security staff at EMA, this time straight through, no looking at the camera or anything



All my original comments where based on the fact that there is no consistancy with the checks.

 

[big soft moose]

thing is I can see the reasoning for these checks in the states where there are numerous intenal flights which would otherwise be ripe for 9/11 style hijacking , but in a country as small as britain why would any terr try and board a plane here to commit an attrocity

I mean if they wanted to hijack a plane and crash it into say the houses of parliment , wouldn't it make more sense to board an inbound flight from somewhere like kenya where the security is pretty much a joke and you could probably get several automatic weapons on in your hand luggage with a $20 bribe the hijack it just as it enters uk airspace ?

 

[mooch]

Always get my gear checked but never had a problem and never taken more then 15minutes including the queue. Maybe I am just lucky but I do travel internationally every 2 months of so

 

[joker2006]

Have flown from east midlands a few times now over the past year. Never had a issue with my red snapper duo bag full of gear. To be honest every time i go through they never really seem to be looking at the screen.

The only issue I had there was when i flew in there in 2011 after going to F1 testing at Valencia, but had flown from a Alicante as dad has a place near there.
Got quizzed by the police desk as to why i had flown in from alicante when i had been to Valencia as Valencia does have an airport. I had to refrain from thanking judith charmers for the travel advice and told him the reasons why i had done what i had done.

Apart from that no other issues from there. Have noticed i think its the only uk airport with a smoking section still in the departure lounge

 

[hunnymonster]

I'm not anti security. I'm anti security that is non effective.

That's me - anti-"security theatre" - they have to be seen to be doing something... the number of times I've inadvertantly boarded planes with screwdrivers etc in my carry-on is legion... and that's passing through the security in the approved way.

Mind you I've seen people flip totally too - through the arch <beep> "Please remove your belt" - through the arc <beep> "Please remove your shoes" - through the arch <beep> "Please remove your spectacles" - through the arch <beep> <Cue bloke flipping and stripping right down to birthday suit>. Always makes for interesting security theatre queue at Frankfurt (the proper one not Hahn)

 

[~Sam~]

thing is I can see the reasoning for these checks in the states where there are numerous intenal flights which would otherwise be ripe for 9/11 style hijacking , but in a country as small as britain why would any terr try and board a plane here to commit an attrocity

Lockerbie ring a bell? Just because it's not an internal flight, doesn't mean that one originating from (or through) the UK can't pose a risk TO the UK (or other territories).

I have never had a real problem at EMA other than the fact that it is a small but, at times, busy airport which slows things down when their are a lot of passengers going through. I have waited longer each time I have flown from there on an internal flight from Glasgow to east Midlands than the other way round and also experienced more security checks there, so I think it's partly perception and how often you use a particular airport.

 

[big soft moose]

Lockerbie ring a bell? Just because it's not an internal flight, doesn't mean that one originating from (or through) the UK can't pose a risk TO the UK (or other territories).
.

yeah lockerbie - flight 103 originated from frankfurt in the then west germany so maybe not the best example

and also that was a bomb in the hold luggage not a hijacking

those small points aside i wasnt saying that we shouldnt have any security checks, just that paranoia about nail clippers etc was pointless when a terorist could probably get half an arsenal on board an inbound flight originating from your average tinpot thirdworld point of departure by the simple expedient of bribing the laughably titled 'security' officials

 

[~Sam~]

yeah lockerbie - flight 103 originated from frankfurt in the then west germany so maybe not the best example

and also that was a bomb in the hold luggage not a hijacking

those small points aside i wasnt saying that we shouldnt have any security checks, just that paranoia about nail clippers etc was pointless when a terorist could probably get half an arsenal on board an inbound flight originating from your average tinpot thirdworld point of departure by the simple expedient of bribing the laughably titled 'security' officials

Yes, I accept it originated outside of the UK, which is why I said a flight originating from or coming through the UK. I also accept your point that it was hold luggage as opposed to hand luggage, but my understanding is that a 'good' security crew in the airport will be looking out for signs of discomfort etc associated with the stress a terrorist will feel knowing that they are potentially going to blow themselves up with others. In fact, you have highlighted the neccesity to disembark all passengers and re-check the hold luggage before a flight goes on to the final destination - in some respects, I'd be far more ticked off by that wait than by any other in an airport.

As to whether or not you asserted that checks should be abolished, i don't believe I addressed that so I take it the comment was not aimed at me in particular.

Frankfurt is not a third world tinpot point of departure - and neither is Paris (where the infamous 'shoebomber' boarded his flight).

As far as I am concerned, many of the delays result from passengers not being prepared - I get a little frustrated by passengers in front of me who do not remove their coats before they get to the point at which they need to go through security, or who suddenly decide to search through luggage for things they need to remove. Metal detectors have been around for as long as I have been flying and certainly are not a 'post 9/11 phenomena' so why do people not learn to take their damn watch off?

 

[big soft moose]

I think the thing that frustrates me the most is the inconsitency - for example like someone said above you can't take nail clippers but you can take a glass bottle - how does that work , a broken bottle is considerably more dangerous

the other thing is the attitide of the security staff , some are fine but others are pocket hitlers who are getting off on their power trip rather than just doing their job. For example on one flight through theifrow I observed an old and obviously disabled woman in a wheel chair being made to stand while they examined her chair ... what profile suggests that elderly caucasian women are likely to be al quaeda members ? - As i recall that was the same flight in which i remembered atlantic that my Gerber pocket knife was at the bottom of my carry on camera bag hand luggage - which the security goons hadnt checked propperly because they were too busy laughing at the discomfort of the old lady ahead of me....go figure :shrug:

 

[MisterE]

As far as I am concerned, many of the delays result from passengers not being prepared - I get a little frustrated by passengers in front of me who do not remove their coats before they get to the point at which they need to go through security, or who suddenly decide to search through luggage for things they need to remove. Metal detectors have been around for as long as I have been flying and certainly are not a 'post 9/11 phenomena' so why do people not learn to take their damn watch off?

Just like the countless numbers of women [yes....women....never men] who get all their stuff through the supermarket checkout and then finally start to search for their purses buried right at the bottom of their handbags.

At airport security I always get as prepared as possible and there's nothing on me to trigger the alarm. But it still takes a bit of time do things like get my laptop out of the bag, and load things in to the trays. Last week coming out of Bangkok I was busy trying to do all this and a security girl kept coming up to me every few seconds and telling me to move my trays along the conveyor. This I did a couple of times but then had to say to her "Look. I can either keep moving your trays along the conveyor, or I can actually finish putting all my stuff in to them. I can't do both. What do you want me to do?" With that she left me alone. I guess I risked a stay in the Bangkok Hilton for that.

 

[Jazzmonkey]

I fly from Manchester fairly regularly, and have never had a problem with camera gear at all....don't mind the security checks if it stops me getting blown up,but my one big gripe is why are the airport staff so effin' miserable. Look if you don't like the job somebody else will do it. From leaving the country going through liquids check/boarding card/passport/x rays and then coming back to Blighty, being greeted by the most miserable passport control staff ever. Lighten up.

 

[Bernie174]

Passport control and security are 2 entirely different things.
Personally, I'd not want to sit on a desk with the prospect of silly comments from half peed chavs or the paperwork from a PA claim made on dubious grounds.

ohjin22 - Yes, you probably did hear about the terrorists that got caught after security, or the ones that tried and failed after getting through, but how many were deterred that you don't know about? It's an unquantifiable. Just as the people I called idiots above, probably were, but who's to know if one of them was intending to leap out of his seat deactivated granade/real CS Gas/Knife in hand? They were all found by security. So is it effective really? Yes, it is. Nothings gone bang on a plane, and no ones hijacked one from the UK for a very long time.

If you want 100% security, then you're in the wrong place, it's not possible. Terrorists are not thick, they are inventive, the example of silly Irish Nurse is a good one, explosives in the lining of her bag, NO detonator attached, that was in a working calculator quite separate, perfectly viable device that was only found because an experienced screener wasn't happy about the weight of the bad when it had been emptied. But, even she didn't know what she'd found, nor did anyone else until an explosives officer arrived.
The Said Nurse, was completely unaware, although the logic of why her Jordanian Boyfriend was sending her to Israel, seemed to pass her by.
So that's why you infirm old lady gets searched, the DfT specify it must the the n th pax, and come hell or high water thats who gets searched. Just because she's disabled, doesn't means she can't be duped. Also, her chair can't go through the detector, which is another reason why it gets a hand search.

 

[big soft moose]

So that's why you infirm old lady gets searched, the DfT specify it must the the n th pax, and come hell or high water thats who gets searched. Just because she's disabled, doesn't means she can't be duped. Also, her chair can't go through the detector, which is another reason why it gets a hand search.

I'm aware of the case of anne maria murphy/ Nezar Hindawi so fair enough vis the old lady but theres no call for the bad attitude of the searchers who were clearly enjoying her discomfort - or their being slapdash with other passengers (vis the point i made about realising mid atlantic that i was carrying a gerber folder with a there inch blade in my camera bag - the xray must have missed it because it was in with the batteries and stuff at the bottom of the bag but a hand search would have found it had muppet not been too busy laughing at a crippled old lady being made to stand ) -

also if what you say is true it blows out the water all the coblers that gets spouted (usually to justify someone who's detained for FWA - flying while asian ) about how they use a carefully determined profile , because anyone could be potentially be a dupe