Airshow Lens?

CrashEd

CrashEd

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I'm looking at several lenses mainly for airshows/fly-pasts etc, but need some advice as to which to go for. I'm mainly interested in Canon L lenses (for my 400D).

So far I have these in mind:

EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS
EF 300 f/4 L IS
EF 400 f/5.6 L

I have a 1.4x extender, so this could be used with either of the primes.

What's your advice in terms of IQ, AF speed, lens speed?

 
edster said:
I'm looking at several lenses mainly for airshows/fly-pasts etc, but need some advice as to which to go for. I'm mainly interested in Canon L lenses (for my 400D).

So far I have these in mind:

EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS
EF 300 f/4 L IS
EF 400 f/5.6 L

I have a 1.4x extender, so this could be used with either of the primes.

What's your advice in terms of IQ, AF speed, lens speed?
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If you use the Extender with the 100-400 or the 400/5.6, you won't get autofocus - not ideal for fly-pasts, I would suggest. You're OK with the 300 and a 1.4x Extender, though.

Of the three, the 400 prime is the sharpest and fastest to focus. There was a thread about that lens recently, here.
 
Thanks Stewart.

StewartR said:
If you use the Extender with the 100-400 or the 400/5.6, you won't get autofocus - not ideal for fly-pasts, I would suggest. You're OK with the 300 and a 1.4x Extender, though.
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Yeah, if I went for the 400 I'd use it as-is, but if I had the 300 I'd probably use it with the 1.4x. I suppose the benefit of the 300 and the 1.4x is that you are getting effectively two lenses for the price of one. And it has IS.

However, the 400 is sharper and lighter, but doesn't have IS. Tough decision.

From what I've red so far I've pretty much discounted the 100-400. It's down to the 300 or the 400.

StewartR said:
There was a thread about that lens recently, here.
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Yep, saw that one, thanks.

 
edster said:
From what I've red so far I've pretty much discounted the 100-400. It's down to the 300 or the 400.
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I'm not sure whether you're talking about hiring or buying - but if you're thinking of buying then you might want to hire one (or both!) first to make sure you're happy.

OK, I'm a pimp. :D
 
Why have you discounted the 100-400? its pretty much the staple lens for aishows, sure, primes are fast and the image quality is great, but just at the moment you want to zoom out to get that never to be repeated 3 ship flypast............:bang: Have you shot many airshows in the past? dont make a rash decision, id try and hire a lens for a show first to see how you get on, (stewartR is your man)
Dean:)
 
I'm new to airshows, but it's the main reason why I took up photography, so I want to get it right. I also work with aircraft, so often get the oppertunity to take photos at airfields etc.

You're right - I definitely need to try them before buying, which I will certainly do. It's a lot of money to invest in a lens that wont get quite as much use as my other lenses.

The 100-400 is definitely more versatile, but I don't like the pump-action zoom. It's probably quicher and more logical than a twist zoom, but it sounds like they are prone to getting crap in them. Not good. However, I may change my mind when I try one...

The 400 is appealing as it is light(er) and has a built in lens hood (as does the 300) and the IQ is supposed to be awesome. But as you say, not as versatile.

Also, the 100-400s seem to have variable IQ i.e. you have to get a good one.

This review was also interesting:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/forgotten-400.shtml

 
I know someone who has the 100-400 lens (now mainly used on a 1D Mk3) but has used on their 350D, It is a very fine lens. Also remember the 1.6x crop the 400D gives you, so at the long end you will get over 600mm, so you wont need the converter. I would go for this lens as you might mind it the most flexible. I have the Sigma 170-500mm giving me up to 750mm on the K10D and I have had no problems.
 
There really isn't a correct answer for this. All three lenses will produce the goods, they will just give you different photos. The 100-400 L IS will allow you to shoot pretty much everything but it's not as sharp or as quick as the others. With 300 / 400 primes you will shoot more tightly cropped.
 
edster said:
The 100-400 is definitely more versatile, but I don't like the pump-action zoom. It's probably quicher and more logical than a twist zoom, but it sounds like they are prone to getting crap in them. Not good. However, I may change my mind when I try one...
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I bet you do. To my mind the push-pull action is much more useful than a twist ring; it's totally intuitive, it feels almost telepathic, and your left hand never strays from the supporting position under the lens so you can compose, zoom and shoot all in one move.

I've heard several people raise concerns about sucking in dust, but I'm afraid I don't have any hard data. I know a couple of safari regulars who swear by the 100-400 in what must be the dustiest environment most of us will ever encounter, so I figure it can't be too bad. The way I see it, a small amount of dust in the lens isn't going to hurt your pictures, and a lot of dust in the lens means a quick trip to Canon for internal cleaning. No big deal.

On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). There's another thread here about that.
 
Offertonhatter said:
Also remember the 1.6x crop the 400D gives you, so at the long end you will get over 600mm, so you wont need the converter
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This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)

StewartR said:
On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). I know a couple of safari regulars who swear by the 100-400 in what must be the dustiest environment most of us will ever encounter, so I figure it can't be too bad.
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Blimey, if it will stand up to that kind of environment then it can't be too bad!

Perhaps the 100-400 isn't such a bad option. At least it would get more use with it being more versatile. Do you think I'd be able to tell the difference in IQ on my 400D, or is it something you'd only notice on a 1D?

StewartR said:
On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). There's another thread here about that.
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Yeah, I saw that. It's what put me off :( At least the chap got it repaired for free by Canon. Good result.

 
edster said:
This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)


In what way? If a sensor is cropped, you have to convert the focal length of the lens to suit, for example, my 24-70 is reality a 36-105mm F2.8 lens, due to my 1.5x crop. I have used the 24-70 on my film camera, and that is the way it is.
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edster said:
For what reason, if you don't mind me asking?
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I used the 100-400L for about 14 months and it was my main lens during that time and it did a lot of airshows, It was very good if you got the light as f5.6 is very slow, I also found if I lost focus with it it would hunt like hell to get it back, I was allways cleaning my sensor when I had it
as it does pump a lot of air when zooming fast.Most of the shots I took were at the long end so I got a 300f2.8Lis and never looked back. Now im not saying that the 100-400 is not a capable lens and it is the most popular zoom for airshows and does give good results but I just prefer primes now.
 
Offertonhatter said:
edster said:
This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)


In what way? If a sensor is cropped, you have to convert the focal length of the lens to suit, for example, my 24-70 is reality a 36-105mm F2.8 lens, due to my 1.5x crop. I have used the 24-70 on my film camera, and that is the way it is.
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A 24-70 is a 24-70 what ever you put it on,you are recording the same image on to a smaller sensor thats all
the only thing that changes is the field of view.
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Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.

Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :LOL:

Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :D
 
malla1962 said:
Offertonhatter said:
A 24-70 is a 24-70 what ever you put it on,you are recording the same image on to a smaller sensor thats all
the only thing that changes is the field of view.
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Thanks, beat me to it ;)

The crop factor DOES NOT change the focal length, just the FOV.

andyjayh said:
Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.

Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :LOL:

Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :D
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Thanks Andy, I'll check it out tomorrow...
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andyjayh said:
Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.

Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :LOL:

Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :D
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Hmmm. I wouldn't fancy pointing it at the sky all day either - it is much heavier than the other lenses mentioned.
* 1190g => 300mm f/4 L IS
* 1250g => 400mm f/5.6 L
* 1360g => 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS
* 1410g => 300mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x
* 2600g => 120-300mm f/2.8 APO

If you used a monopod with a Manfrotto MN393 head, the weight wouldn't be an issue, but I have no idea whether or not that would be workable for air shows.
 
StewartR said:
Hmmm. I wouldn't fancy pointing it at the sky all day either - it is much heavier than the other lenses mentioned.
* 1190g => 300mm f/4 L IS
* 1250g => 400mm f/5.6 L
* 1360g => 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS
* 1410g => 300mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x
* 2600g => 120-300mm f/2.8 APO

If you used a monopod with a Manfrotto MN393 head, the weight wouldn't be an issue, but I have no idea whether or not that would be workable for air shows.
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I find air shows better to hand hold.
 
Well, on the subject of IQ, I was using a 100/400 with a 40D taking some albatross shots recently, and they have blown up to A1 without any visible sign of loss of sharpness, I must say I was surprised at the quality.
I think you have to try a couple, but remember if you miss the shot, it doesn't matter how good the IQ is!

I think there's a bit too much emphasis on ultimate IQ, really composition etc is what it's all about and we mustn't get too carried away with the gear and forget about what photography is all about!!

Don't write off the 100/400, and I don't think the push pull is really a problem once you get used to it. As for dust, well I've used a 35/350 in many different parts of the world which has the same action for over 10 years, and never has a problem.

Good luck with your choice, at least you have got a bit of advice and really the answer is that there is no absolute answer!!

George
 
I'm more than happy with my 100-400mm at airshows. If anything, I want longer!! As said earlier, it's very versatile, especially when you have the Red Arrows flying by, and you want to get them all in the frame. However, I do find that it does suck up the dust, so neds regular cleaning.
 
I'm considering the 400 prime for this kind of work, I may even hire one off Stewart before I take the plunge :D

I've tried the 100-400 several times now as that range just seems to make sense for most occasions, but I can't get on with that zoom action :runaway:


Please Canon.....make a twist zoom version !!!
 
digitalfailure said:
I'm considering the 400 prime for this kind of work, I may even hire one off Stewart before I take the plunge :D

I've tried the 100-400 several times now as that range just seems to make sense for most occasions, but I can't get on with that zoom action :runaway:


Please Canon.....make a twist zoom version !!!
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\i never had a problem with the push pull zoom in fact I found it a lot quicker than a twist zoom.;)
 
'fraid I agree with Malla, Brian. In fact I like it. But suppose I've been using it for years so I'm used to it.
 
I dare say I could get used to in after a while, the last time I borrowed one I spent more time trying to get the tension right :)

I've just been down to my local shop asking for a "good" price on the 400 5.6....although he didn't have it stock today he's going to mail me tomorrow :D
 
never needed more than 300mm at an airshow, so i would go 100-400mm as a prime could mean you miss out on pictures cos you can't zoom you can be very close to stuff at shows these days
 
"I dare say I could get used to in after a while, the last time I borrowed one I spent more time trying to get the tension right"

I actually don't worry too much about the tension, tend to leave it at the slackest setting so I can quickly move it in and out, but i'd agree this isn't the best feature of the lens.
 
Before i got the 100-400, i had tha Sigma 135-400 lens, this had a twist zoom, but i only ever used to push, pull the zoom anyway:LOL:

Dean:)
 
if anyone is considering the luuuuvly 400L 5.6 prime, may I suggest you drop Kerso a line, I bought mine from him, it cost me less than the cost price my local shop buy in for, mad? (who I use for lots and like). Quick, efficient and lovely lens, everybodys expectations and requirements are individual.
 
the undertaker said:
if anyone is considering the luuuuvly 400L 5.6 prime, may I suggest you drop Kerso a line, I bought mine from him, it cost me less than the cost price my local shop buy in for, mad? (who I use for lots and like). Quick, efficient and lovely lens, everybodys expectations and requirements are individual.
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£630 from Kerso as opposed to £650 for the 300L f/4 IS. I think he is doing the 100-400L IS for £790 (£75 cashback on the 100-400L IS).

 
Like I say, I luvs my 400 prime, even ordered 2x extender off Kerso, just in case????

But I love my prime, quick, easy and reliable.
 
this 400L had better be as good as you lot say......... Or your all for it :bat:

I ordered one last night off kerso, jessops want a grand for it :eek:
 
When ever the 100-400L IS is mentioned the dust pump issue keeps coming up, mostly without any real evidence.
I owned a 100-400 for four years and the sensor didn't get any more dust than other lens I have.

Check out the end of the 100-400L that attaches to the camera and you'll find it's a sealed moving bit of glass – the same as all other lenses. So, any dust that does get 'pumped' will already be in the mirror/sensor area anyway. The pump effect can also happen with normal twist zooms when you change the focal length quickly.

Don't let this myth affect your buying decision, the 100-400 is probably the best airshow lens.
 
The question now is how can I get my hands on these lenses so that I can try before buying? None of my local shops (LCE, Jessops) have them in stock with them being specialist L's.

 
edster said:
The question now is how can I get my hands on these lenses so that I can try before buying? None of my local shops (LCE, Jessops) have them in stock with them being specialist L's.
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What do you mean by "try"? We have all of them at LensesForHire ...
 
digitalfailure said:
this 400L had better be as good as you lot say......... Or your all for it :bat:

I ordered one last night off kerso, jessops want a grand for it :eek:
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A lovely quick, ace lens, like I say, I luvs mine, Kerso's price is just amazing, as usual. Like I said, cheaper than my shop's cost price, You must be lucky cos I wasnt sure if Kerso was still listing it. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Like an article read the other day, some people really warm to prime lenses, others seem to struggle to accustom to??

Good Luck:clap::wave::woot::woot:(y)
 
He does a 3 day rate i think, you just need to select it from the drop down list
 
It is £28 for 3 days.

P.S Stewart do i get commision :)
 
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