Another 40D vs 50D question- but for focussing!!!

topcatproduction

topcatproduction

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Sorry I know there is another couple of threads on the go with these 2 in question- as I use a couple of manual lenses and do some extreme macro I'm looking at the differences with manual focussing in mind! I struggle with my 400D to see through the viewfinder well enough to focus perfectly on something that is ony 3mm wide, or with say my 100mm prime on objects a fair distance away that you can see are not in focus when on screen or printed.

I have heard the 50D has magnification on the live view which could help with my issue, however how practical is it to use when trying to take a quick shot?! I can't see insects hanging around long enough or staying in the same place whilst I have to press buttons etc to get the screen to zoom in- and unless the object is stationary and the camera is on a tripod, how can you use the magnification feature and make sure you still have the shot and not wandered off to one side etc?

Hopefully that kinda makes sense- I would struggle to afford the 50D and apart from the supposedly amazing rear screen and extra pixels the magnification feature is the only bonus for me- though without having used it I just cant see how it is practical to use unless doing stationary tripod shots!

Thanks, TC
 
The 40d magnifies also. In live view you can zoom x5 or x10 then manually focus.

This still leaves you with the practical side of trying this where the subject is prone to movement, I would of thought quite tricky without tripod
... stationary subjects would be better.
 
Unless the cameras on a tripod I've found the live-view function is of no use whatsoever for focusing for macro as the slightest movement causes severe vibration and blurring of the image.
 
I didnt realise the 40D did it too! I guess you can leave the screen magnified for focussing and glance through the viewfinder for checking position? Still maybe not practical I know, how about split prism type things or is that a completely different story?

Oh- and just how much better is the 50D screen than the 40D?
 
topcatproduction said:
I didnt realise the 40D did it too! I guess you can leave the screen magnified for focussing and glance through the viewfinder for checking position? Still maybe not practical I know, how about split prism type things or is that a completely different story?

Oh- and just how much better is the 50D screen than the 40D?
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1) Doubt it, Live View locks up the mirror. There isnt the option for split prism focusing, that's done via the focusing screen and although you can get different screens split/prism isnt one of them.
2) Lots

Matt
 
MatBin said:
... There isnt the option for split prism focusing, that's done via the focusing screen and although you can get different screens split/prism isnt one of them.


Matt
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Certainly not the case Matt. I use a 40D for macro and have a split prism screen installed in it (also fits my 50D if required). I use the split prism in conjunction with the MT-24 focus assist lights for my MP-E65 and am very happy with the usability of the setup. It also works well with the EF100, EF180 and Sigma 150 macro lenses.

I also feel that the 40D is better than the 50D for macro (except for MP-E usage) as the slightly lower sensor resolution seems to cope with the smaller apertures better.

Bob
 
Thanks for the replies, am I correct in thinking that you can replace one of the screens with a split prism one for MF, however it does away with the little AF lights you see when focussing an AF lens? If so its a pity you cant have the best of both worlds!

I use a couple of MF primes (with my zooms) as I cant afford more lenses and the IQ of a decent old manual prime is FAR superior to any of my zooms and probably more so than an AF prime of the same price (not that there are many good primes in my price bracket :(). Its just hard to guarentee good focus (obviously thats the price to pay) and its nice having a ring for aperture size too.

Is the 40D screen pretty much the same as my 400D one just half an inch bigger? Its a b****r to try and see anything on it in bright sunlight!!
 
Canon Bob said:
Certainly not the case Matt. I use a 40D for macro and have a split prism screen installed in it (also fits my 50D if required). I use the split prism in conjunction with the MT-24 focus assist lights for my MP-E65 and am very happy with the usability of the setup. It also works well with the EF100, EF180 and Sigma 150 macro lenses.

I also feel that the 40D is better than the 50D for macro (except for MP-E usage) as the slightly lower sensor resolution seems to cope with the smaller apertures better.

Bob
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Interesting!!

Bob, thanks for pointing out something different from the manual, the 50d manual says there are only 3 screens available, ef-a, d or s, none of which are split prism. Which one are you using, I'd be interested in seeing if I can get one to fit into a 50D.
Note: ef-s is super matte which is supposed to be the one to use for manual focusing, be interested in a split prism though.

Matt
 
Matt,

Of course, Canon only detail their own offerings. Katz-Eyes manufacture excellent screens (albeit at a price). I used one in my old 30D and now have one for the 40D and 50D.

Bob
 
topcatproduction said:
Sorry I know there is another couple of threads on the go with these 2 in question- as I use a couple of manual lenses and do some extreme macro I'm looking at the differences with manual focussing in mind! I struggle with my 400D to see through the viewfinder well enough to focus perfectly on something that is ony 3mm wide, or with say my 100mm prime on objects a fair distance away that you can see are not in focus when on screen or printed.

I have heard the 50D has magnification on the live view which could help with my issue, however how practical is it to use when trying to take a quick shot?! I can't see insects hanging around long enough or staying in the same place whilst I have to press buttons etc to get the screen to zoom in- and unless the object is stationary and the camera is on a tripod, how can you use the magnification feature and make sure you still have the shot and not wandered off to one side etc?

Hopefully that kinda makes sense- I would struggle to afford the 50D and apart from the supposedly amazing rear screen and extra pixels the magnification feature is the only bonus for me- though without having used it I just cant see how it is practical to use unless doing stationary tripod shots!

Thanks, TC
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I can't help thinking that with extreme macro of maybe 3x or 4x magnification you are always going to have a problem.

If you can get a split-prism focusing screen it will probably black out at effective f/numbers above f/5.6 which is where you'll be at. Likewise, live view also needs a lot of light if the image is not to be very degraded by noise, before packing up completely.

Macro is not easy from any point of view.
 
Hi as the guys have already said extreme macro is tricky I rarely go above 1:1
The live view is fine for stationary things with a tripod
Pete
 
One final thing- on a 50D review I recall it saying that you need really good glass to get results out of the 50D as it has so many pixels? Does this mean that with the same lens as one would use on a 40D (in my case (currently) a Sigma 17-70) you would get worse pictures, or does it just mean that they would come out the same but you can get even better pictures if you spend more £££ on glass?
 
topcatproduction said:
One final thing- on a 50D review I recall it saying that you need really good glass to get results out of the 50D as it has so many pixels? Does this mean that with the same lens as one would use on a 40D (in my case (currently) a Sigma 17-70) you would get worse pictures, or does it just mean that they would come out the same but you can get even better pictures if you spend more £££ on glass?
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The uncropped images won't be worse, you just won't see the benefit of the extra resolution. When it is likely to show flaws in the glass is when you start looking at x pixels versus x pixels...then you'll be comparing a portion of the image which is effectively magnified more.

Hope that made sense.

Bob
 
I don't have a 100 macro but I just tried using my 85/1.8 with 68mm of tubes, using 10X Live View on my 40D and focusing simply by moving the camera back and forth, unsupported, in my bare hands. I was aiming to get the word "plastics" in focus. The lettering is 10mm long and 1.5mm tall. This is unedited and is the one and only shot I attempted.

20100112_114331_9484_LR.jpg


The conclusion I would draw is that Live View on the 40D is perfectly satisfactory for this exercise. The important thing is that you can see how the DOF is positioned, and plainly you can. The shot here was stopped down to f/4, but I was focusing with the lens at f/1.8, so the "sharp" band I could see was even more precise.

However, trying to focus while hand holding the camera is going to be no easy task, especially if you have no way to support your arms/hands at all. For this shot I could have rested my elbows on the counter, or even rested my arms against my belly, but I purposely held my arms away from me, just to increase the challenge. If shooting outside, with even the smallest breeze, I can see the challenge would potentially increase quite a bit. Shooting in a short burst might help capture the "perfect" shot.
 
Thanks Tim, I use a reversed 28mm f/2.8 on tubes to get 4.5:1 magnification, basically the head of a fly can practically fill the screen so as you can imagine I have to crank the aperture size right down to get the DOF required to have enough in focus. I use a little LED keyring light stuck under the front of my flash for focussing which works quite well- though it still gets mighty dark at about f/8 or so!
 
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