Any Computer Builders .... Is this over kill??

bbg404

bbg404

Messages
1,302
Name
Ben
Edit My Images
Yes
Morning all, I thought id start looking at what things cost and building different combinations then built this system (which I really like) as the one I'm currently on is years old and about to pop with me starting to edit images now. My current pc has had an easy life only really being used for school work, few spread sheets and internet and its been more than capable of this until I started back with photography and started editing using Photoshop then I realised how slow this PC is.

Id prefer to spend a little more now to future proof it for a while ......


Case
ZALMAN Z11 PLUS BLACK MID TOWER CASE

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-4790 (3.6GHz) 8MB Cache

Motherboard
ASUS® SABERTOOTH Z97 MK1: USB 3.0, SATA 6.0GB/s, THERMAL ARMOR

Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPER-X BEAST DUAL-DDR3 2133MHz X.M.P (2 x 8GB)

Graphics Card
1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 610 - DVI, HDMI, VGA - 3D Vision Ready

1st Hard Disk
240GB INTEL® 530 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 540MB/sR | 490MB/sW)

2nd Hard Disk
2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)

1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
16x BLU-RAY WRITER DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW

Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT

Power Supply
CORSAIR 450W VS SERIES™ VS-450 POWER SUPPLY

Processor Cooling
CoolerMaster Seidon 120M High Performance CPU Cooler (£39)

Fan Controller
NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller with upto 5 Fitted Case Fans

Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs

USB Options
2 PORT USB 3.0 INTERNAL PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS

Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)

Operating System
ALREADY HAVE WINDOWS 7

Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE

Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE

Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£69)

Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 8 to 10 working days
 
Seems a little unbalanced. Have you signed up to the Overclockers UK Forums? We'd be able to give you some options, there are loads of competent and knowledgeable people who can spec for you!
 
snips86x said:
Seems a little unbalanced.
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It might be beneficial to other members of this forum if you explained the above comment, rather than directing the OP to an alternate site.
 
onomatopoeia said:
It might be beneficial to other members of this forum if you explained the above comment, rather than directing the OP to an alternate site.
Click to expand...

Sure:

Case is fine, may get noisy
Processor - More then adequate, will be fine for what you need, hyperthreading will help with photoshop/LR
Motherboard: Expensive for what you're using it for, a £90 MSI or Gigabyte motherboard will be just as good if not better
RAM: RAM is fine, but the beast RAM is high so any aftermarket coolers will not fit due to heatsink hight - Teamgroup would be better & cheaper
Graphics Card: 1GB card is not worth the money, either go for on-board or get an nVidia 7 series which PS & LR should benefit from
SSD & HDD are fine, but there are cheaper & quicker alternatives like the Crucial MX100 range
PSU - Corsair PSUs are not the best and the cheaper ones are known for issues - Your best option would be Superflower, Seasonic, XFX
Fan Controller - Not really needed with that case, you can run the case fans from the motherboard headers

If you want a spec, let me know but it will be from Overclockers UK.

Conclusion: You can save money but get a better performing PC.
 
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snips86x said:
Sure:

Case is fine, may get noisy
Processor - More then adequate, will be fine for what you need, hyperthreading will help with photoshop/LR
Motherboard: Expensive for what you're using it for, a £90 MSI or Gigabyte motherboard will be just as good if not better
RAM: RAM is fine, but the beast RAM is high so any aftermarket coolers will not fit due to heatsink hight - Teamgroup would be better & cheaper
Graphics Card: 1GB card is not worth the money, either go for on-board or get an nVidia 7 series which PS & LR should benefit from
SSD & HDD are fine, but there are cheaper & quicker alternatives like the Crucial MX100 range
PSU - Corsair PSUs are not the best and the cheaper ones are known for issues - Your best option would be Superflower, Seasonic, XFX
Fan Controller - Not really needed with that case, you can run the case fans from the motherboard headers

If you want a spec, let me know but it will be from Overclockers UK.

Conclusion: You can save money but get a better performing PC.
Click to expand...
im assuming its a pre-built system going from the bit where the OP says:

Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 8 to 10 working days

So things like CPU cooler/RAM fitting arent his problem.

also, was running corsair PSU for years with no bother before moving to OCZ.
 
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^^ I think its pot luck to be honest.

I wouldn't touch Corsair PSUs with a barge pole, unless its the AX range!
 
snips86x said:
get an nVidia 7 series which PS & LR should benefit from
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Bzzt. Nope. LR is not accelerated (other than 2d image shovelling) and PS only benefits from the more esoteric processing.

No time to expand on it, but you don't get much benefit from a faster card.
 
bbg404 said:
Wow thanks for the help and advice I'm all for a better machine for less money!
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What's your budget and could you build yourself? That's the key here, if you can build yourself, you're looking at a far better price vs performance ratio!
 
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How much are you over budget and perhaps we can save a bit.

First, the USB 3.0 PCI-e card isn't needed, motherboard already have USB 3.0. Same with fan controller, motherboard can already handle this.

SSD can be 128GB or a cheaper variant of 200+ GB, speed difference isn't noticeable at all. HDD can be cheaper, WD Black is most expensive out there.

Finally, when getting the system built, ensure they program the correct fan profile into the motherboard. From the inclusion of fan controller and case choice, it seems silent PC isn't part of the builder's agenda. A build like that have all the potential to be almost silent if the correct fan settings are set in the motherboard.



For example, my desktop. It has automated fan controller that have many probes dotted around the system. The same job can be done with a modern motherboard. I have setup the massive Silvestone FT02 intake fans to be pushing air into the case at minimal speed, and only speed up if component temperature increases. The processor is cooled passively and the smaller fans only start if processor temperature exceeds a certain degree. All this results in a near silent PC that can't be heard unless I'm video editing.

If I'm paying money to have system built, I'd expect a similarly careful setup and tests at different processor load to give you quietest possible PC.
 
wuyanxu said:
How much are you over budget and perhaps we can save a bit.

First, the USB 3.0 PCI-e card isn't needed, motherboard already have USB 3.0. Same with fan controller, motherboard can already handle this.

SSD can be 128GB or a cheaper variant of 200+ GB, speed difference isn't noticeable at all. HDD can be cheaper, WD Black is most expensive out there.

Finally, when getting the system built, ensure they program the correct fan profile into the motherboard. From the inclusion of fan controller and case choice, it seems silent PC isn't part of the builder's agenda. A build like that have all the potential to be almost silent if the correct fan settings are set in the motherboard.



For example, my desktop. It has automated fan controller that have many probes dotted around the system. The same job can be done with a modern motherboard. I have setup the massive Silvestone FT02 intake fans to be pushing air into the case at minimal speed, and only speed up if component temperature increases. The processor is cooled passively and the smaller fans only start if processor temperature exceeds a certain degree. All this results in a near silent PC that can't be heard unless I'm video editing.

If I'm paying money to have system built, I'd expect a similarly careful setup and tests at different processor load to give you quietest possible PC.
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iD BE HAPPY AT AROUND £1000 IF NOT LESS :)

tHANSK ILL RECALCULATE REMOVING AS YOUVE ADVISED. the only thing i thought about the bifgger ssd was for installing programs and OS on but maybe that a little over kill!!

thanks for the tips on noise as i dont have a clue about building PCs i never even thought about the noise side of things and as i was going through PC specalist i just assumed they would take care of it
 
Where are you based? Do you know anyone who could assist? There are plenty of videos and its just like electronic lego :)
 
Sorry to hijack but it's a similar sort of set up I'd like, similar price band but would say I'd also like a raid system for the data as I'm hopeless at back up and yes it has cost me in the past. So would be looking at a couple of 2xTB drives with possibly a small SSD for the OS etc. Quiet running would be nice, and I would have a go building myself as I did build my own back in the days of 286 486 etc. 20 years ago and was surprised how easy it was. It will be used first off for image storage and editing with PS/LR but also music storage and browsing, gaming will probably never happen.

So if some kind soul would list a spec I can start looking at prices. I have already gone down the same route as the OP with PC Specialist but wasn't really sure what spec I would need and could end up wasting money.

If the OP would prefer I'll move this to a new thread but looks to be the same subject to me.
 
£1000 budget??? That can get you a pretty nice system and still have change!
 
Keith W said:
IMHO that would be the right thing to do regardless ;)
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And if the OP want's that I'll happily do it but as stated I was trying not to have two duplicate treads running at the same time.

neil_g said:
RAID is NOT a backup.
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I understood a raid to duplicate the one drive with the other in case of drive crashes. I realise as a security option it's not much use but as a non pro there would be no financial loss. I'm also looking at auto backup to an online site as well once I get a new system instead of this crappy old lap top.

muscleflex said:
£1000 budget??? That can get you a pretty nice system and still have change!
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Change would always be welcome as a new monitor will be needed as well.
 
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Either ditch the GeForce GT 610 or (preferably) swap it for something better - I'd switch down to an i5 if needs be and go with a GeForce GTX 750.

Edit: Personally I'd look at Chillblast as well. Guessing by the warranty description that PC is from PC Specialist.
 
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Big Andy said:
I understood a raid to duplicate the one drive with the other in case of drive crashes.
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its a redundancy option not a backup. i.e. to keep a system running until the drive can be replaced, normally in an enterprise environment where a drive can be swapped out pretty much instantly.

if you delete the data its gone from both drives, if the data corrupts it corrupts from both drives, if the raid goes belly up all drives can be lost. treat RAID as a single drive, single drives need to be backed up.

RAID is not a substitute for a backup solution (i.e. copying data off onto a separate drive).

(sorry for the rant like post but its important that people do not use RAID as a backup solution)
 
arad85 said:
Bzzt. Nope. LR is not accelerated (other than 2d image shovelling) and PS only benefits from the more esoteric processing.

No time to expand on it, but you don't get much benefit from a faster card.
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I think there will be some benefit - if I recall properly, 256 bit data bus versus 196 bit.
Main thing with PS is compatibility with the Mercury Graphics engine. My GTX 660 has been problematic, although it's stable with latest drivers and Photoshop CC 2014.
 
Big Andy said:
And if the OP want's that I'll happily do it but as stated I was trying not to have two duplicate treads running at the same time.
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The OP shouldn't have to ask though ;)

There are lots of threads about cameras and pictures on this forum, maybe they should all be in one thread as well? No I think not as that would turn it into a confusing, hard to read, sh!t fest and detract totally from what a forum is all about, having separate threads and strings of conversation.

It is just bad "neticate" my friend
 
thanks to every one for all the advice I've asked a friend of a friend to look over the spec and agrees it can be done way cheaper or money spent better and end up with a better system so he's going to spec me a couple and hopefully ill be able to slip him a few drinks to build it and still save a few £££

just wish I had the cash right now as Im excited to be able to do my processing quicker
 
Thorburn said:
Either ditch the GeForce GT 610 or (preferably) swap it for something better - I'd switch down to an i5 if needs be and go with a GeForce GTX 750.
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Why?

Unless you know your editing program accelerates the processing you use a lot (and for most people, doing most things with most software, the GPU is NOT used) you are better off with either no additional graphics or a cheap graphics card. A 750 is overkill (and wastes £50-£60 to boot).
 
afasoas said:
I think there will be some benefit - if I recall properly, 256 bit data bus versus 196 bit.
Main thing with PS is compatibility with the Mercury Graphics engine. My GTX 660 has been problematic, although it's stable with latest drivers and Photoshop CC 2014.
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You will see next to no difference in processing/memory bus width for image operations.

This is what is accelerated in CS6:

(from: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html)
  • Adaptive Wide Angle Filter (compatible video card required)
  • Liquify (accelerated with compatible video card with 512 MB of VRAM)
  • Oil Paint (compatible video card required)
  • Warp and Puppet Warp (accelerated with compatible video card)
  • Field Blur, Iris Blur, and Tilt/Shift (accelerated with compatible video card supporting OpenCL)
  • Lighting Effects Gallery (compatible video card required with 512 MB of VRAM)
  • New 3D enhancements (3D features in Photoshop require a compatible video card with 512 MB of VRAM):
    • Draggable Shadows
    • Ground plane reflections
    • Roughness
    • On-canvas user interface controls
    • Ground plane
    • Light widgets on edge of canvas
    • IBL (image-based light) controller
Do you use any of those? If you do, how often do you use them? Don't think I've ever used them at all (TBH, I don't use PS much and have stuck on an older version anyway).

If you don't, or don't use Photoshop CS (other editing programs do exist and they also may use the GPU, but you need to check with the software you will use), the graphics card is (pretty much) immaterial.
 
neil_g said:
RAID is NOT a backup.
Click to expand...

I nearly choked when I saw this post, it is WORD FOR WORD what I've got plastered on our Server request form built within SharePoint at work, short of beating Sales and Engineers with a claw-hammer it was the only way I could get the message across. The funny thing is that when they request a quote and have selected "No RAID", it sends them an email explaining that they have opted for no RAID and that when the drive fails they will have no comeback, same for the backup option lol
 
arad85 said:
You will see next to no difference in processing/memory bus width for image operations.

This is what is accelerated in CS6:

(from: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html)
  • Adaptive Wide Angle Filter (compatible video card required)
  • Liquify (accelerated with compatible video card with 512 MB of VRAM)
  • Oil Paint (compatible video card required)
  • Warp and Puppet Warp (accelerated with compatible video card)
  • Field Blur, Iris Blur, and Tilt/Shift (accelerated with compatible video card supporting OpenCL)
  • Lighting Effects Gallery (compatible video card required with 512 MB of VRAM)
  • New 3D enhancements (3D features in Photoshop require a compatible video card with 512 MB of VRAM):
    • Draggable Shadows
    • Ground plane reflections
    • Roughness
    • On-canvas user interface controls
    • Ground plane
    • Light widgets on edge of canvas
    • IBL (image-based light) controller
Do you use any of those? If you do, how often do you use them? Don't think I've ever used them at all (TBH, I don't use PS much and have stuck on an older version anyway).

If you don't, or don't use Photoshop CS (other editing programs do exist and they also may use the GPU, but you need to check with the software you will use), the graphics card is (pretty much) immaterial.
Click to expand...


I think you missed the emphasis of my post. Here it is again with highlights:

afasoas said:
I think there will be some benefit - if I recall properly, 256 bit data bus versus 196 bit.
Main thing with PS is compatibility with the Mercury Graphics engine. My GTX 660 has been problematic, although it's stable with latest drivers and Photoshop CC 2014.
Click to expand...

The main thrux of it is that rather than buy a cheap card, you might as well stick with the on board GPU.
I tend to work with a system monitor running so I can see CPU versus GPU load. Some of the tasks I regularly perform use the GPU intensely - even more so in CC 2014.
 
afasoas said:
The main thrux of it is that rather than buy a cheap card, you might as well stick with the on board GPU.
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Your post came over as either don't bother or get something around £80-£100. Personally, I'd rather have a cheapo graphics card over internal as it does take load off the memory. I'd never suggest an expensive (yes, I consider £80 expensive) graphics card unless there is an identified need.
afasoas said:
I tend to work with a system monitor running so I can see CPU versus GPU load. Some of the tasks I regularly perform use the GPU intensely - even more so in CC 2014.
Click to expand...
Yup me too... I never see the GPU overly pushed on the operations I do, so you must be doing different things with different software. As I said, graphics card use is software dependant (I use LR almost exclusively) and then dependent on what you are doing within that package. Suggesting anything but a low-end graphics card would seem a bit pointless unless you also ask the user what they are doing and with which software....
 
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