Anyone backing up to BluRay ?

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Rikki

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Just wondering as Ive got a burner and just got some Traxdata 25gb discs (£1.55 each - which I thought was cheap).

Anyone using this for backup? Since shooting raw on the D700, DVD-R's just arent big enough any more :)
 
If the price of blu-ray media has now dropped to a reasonable price, I'd get a blu-ray burner!
25GB of archiving space would certainly free up some of my hard drives.
Seems like you got a very good deal as they still seem quite expensive.
 
I also seriously like the idea of setting up archives on optical media - but think that I shall wait a bit longer for the price of the hardware to drop. Strange in this instance that the media is reasonable but the burner is not.

Chris
 
Its about the same as when I got my first DVD writer back in 2002/3 - Drives were about £200 and discs £2 each
 
I'm still not convinced by optical media, onsite hard drives and offsite cloud/redundant servers for me.
 
I wouldn't trust optical media as a main form of backup. You can fit a blu-ray drive in a Mac pro quite easily and I have written a top tip showing just how to already (see link in sig or web site). Apple have no interest in blu-ray so it will probably not be added for a while if at all.

You can pick up a standard READ/WRITE one for £135

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/LG-BH08LS20AUAU-8x-Blu-Ray-Writer-16x-DVDR-8x-plusRW-6x-RW-5x-RAM-OEM

Or read only for less than half that £52

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/LiteOn-IHOS104-37-4xBlu-Ray-8x-DVD-Reader-OEM-inc-Software

Both of the above will PROBABLY work on a mac pro or in an external USB/FW box on any mac. TOAST 9 & 10 both give the mac BLU-RAY support so in fact we have had it for quite a while.

You can now buy 10 25Gb BLU-RAY write once discs for £16-20

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/10pc...e-ray-Single-sided-Full-face-Printable-135min

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/10x-...D-R-2x-Blue-ray-Single-Sided-Printable-600min

so the price of the media had plummeted too so long as you stick to 25Gb

Go for re-writeable 50Gb and they are £25 EACH

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1pc-...D-RE-2x-Blue-ray-Single-Sided-Branded-1200min
 
I havent used BluRay Media to backup yet but I can see myself going down this direction soon.

I still have a 500GB Segate Drive (external) but I also burn to DVD (at present) as a second backup. I work in IT so i know how easily a hard drive can become corrupt or be dropped etc
 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LG-Blu-Ray-X8-Writer-OEM-Black_W0QQitemZ320426453544QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Drives_Storage_CD_DVD_Drives_ET?hash=item4a9ae7aa28&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2515wt_939"

internal blu ray writer for £150 delivered, not to bad prices!
 
Blue Ray does sound very attractive as an archive backup when the burners are cheap enough.

The projected life of DVDs seems to be vary enormously when you look into it, so I imagine BluRay must be the same.

I wouldn't use BluRay as my only backup, but it seems a very sensible third storage option over HDD and USB HDD. Ours are currently on 4 HDDs in two locations.
 
1Tb HD for £50, 40 write only blu-ray discs for the same price (well about the same price) and the same capacity. I prefer to backup to HDs at the moment and store them off site. I wouldn't criticise anyone for backing up to blu-ray but if you are using optical disks to backup shoots then what about using DVDs for each ind shoot? A tub of 100 branded DVDs costs about £15. Stick each shoot in it's own disc or poss two and store them in the tubs.
 
trapper501 said:
The projected life of DVDs seems to be vary enormously when you look into it, so I imagine BluRay must be the same.
Click to expand...

Blu Ray recordable discs have a much longer archival life than DVDR's because of the way they are constructed.

There's quite a clear explanation HERE.
 
cowasaki said:
1Tb HD for £50, 40 write only blu-ray discs for the same price (well about the same price) and the same capacity. I prefer to backup to HDs at the moment and store them off site. I wouldn't criticise anyone for backing up to blu-ray but if you are using optical disks to backup shoots then what about using DVDs for each ind shoot? A tub of 100 branded DVDs costs about £15. Stick each shoot in it's own disc or poss two and store them in the tubs.
Click to expand...

I currently store all my RAW's and processed wedding images to both HD and DVD. I have two external HD's, one for personal stuff and the other for the pro data. All my forms, stationery and backup images get backed up to an external drive. The problem I have with DVD's is capacity. One wedding RAW's alone can easily fill four DVD's and it's such a pain having to split out all the files into folders so each one is under the limit for a DVD. So one 25Mb disc is certainly very appealing. It also makes off site storage a lot easier. One disc for each wedding = 20/25 discs instead of over 100.
 
Flashman said:
Blu Ray recordable discs have a much longer archival life than DVDR's because of the way they are constructed.

There's quite a clear explanation HERE.
Click to expand...

That is extremely helpful, thanks. I never fully understood the process by which DVDs failed before. Interesting the CD-R are supposed to last longer than DVD-R too.
 
For all the shouts for HD backup, yes its not bad, but you have to power the drives up every 6 months at least and its wise to run surface checks too at the same time. Ive seen more HD crashes and problems than I have with DVD's or CD's so although I have 7 x 1tb drives (2 online and 2 backups of each) I also want to be able to archive my shoots on discs easily for storing in a carry case. 4.3gb on a DVD is worthless when Im out shooting 600 shots on a 32gb card and coming back with 20+ GB of RAW/JPGs. I also shoot video on SDHC and have 4x 16gb cards with me so DVDs would be a PITA again.

Just run my first burn last night on the £1.50 BD-R's and it took 40 minutes at 2x to write 24gb of data (2x seems to be around the 9.5mb/sec rate). I had it verify which took about the same again I think. I'll give 4x a bash later which should be 20mb/sec transfer and obviously 20 minutes per burn (which is similar to the 4x DVD time frame).
 
Rikki said:
For all the shouts for HD backup, yes its not bad, but you have to power the drives up every 6 months at least and its wise to run surface checks too at the same time. Ive seen more HD crashes and problems than I have with DVD's or CD's so although I have 7 x 1tb drives (2 online and 2 backups of each) I also want to be able to archive my shoots on discs easily for storing in a carry case. 4.3gb on a DVD is worthless when Im out shooting 600 shots on a 32gb card and coming back with 20+ GB of RAW/JPGs. I also shoot video on SDHC and have 4x 16gb cards with me so DVDs would be a PITA again.

Just run my first burn last night on the £1.50 BD-R's and it took 40 minutes at 2x to write 24gb of data (2x seems to be around the 9.5mb/sec rate). I had it verify which took about the same again I think. I'll give 4x a bash later which should be 20mb/sec transfer and obviously 20 minutes per burn (which is similar to the 4x DVD time frame).
Click to expand...

I use HDs as a tierciary backup with my mbp and mp mirroring data and another backup on the nas. Drives don't need powering up every six months although everything you say related to IT gives you ten opinions!

Basically the thing is as long as you have a system that works for you that is what matters. My two main computers mirror the data directories, I have a NAS, I backup important stuff to DVD (stored at work) and I use two external hard drives to backup the nas which are then alternated which each other and again stored at work. I may look at one of these data warehouse options at some time soon too they seem pretty good!
 
Its recommended they are spun up every 6 months at least to save the lubrication from solidifying and to make sure they are still in good working order. Just like the old days of tape backup where people would religiously backup but never checked if the backups were actually working. Checking the data integrity is also worthwhile due to the chance of data becoming unreadable too (has happened a couple of times for me in the past).
 
Rikki said:
Its recommended they are spun up every 6 months at least to save the lubrication from solidifying and to make sure they are still in good working order. Just like the old days of tape backup where people would religiously backup but never checked if the backups were actually working. Checking the data integrity is also worthwhile due to the chance of data becoming unreadable too (has happened a couple of times for me in the past).
Click to expand...

I think we are all sort of singing from the same hymn sheet multiple backups on different media at different locations. The advice re HDs varies according to msnufacturers but it can't do any harm. Alternating drives fixes the prob anyway
 
cowasaki said:
I wouldn't trust optical media as a main form of backup.
Click to expand...


Why? Reliability wise, I still have a first CD I burned (Kodak CD) back in 1995 (nearly 15 years) and it is perfectly readable. At that time it cots me 10 GBP for the CD and to rent an hour time with our shared external burner (sized like a small PC) or rather the chap who owned it.

And I cannot say I particularly cared about it all these years - it has quite a few scratches but works perfectly.
 
dalex_257 said:
Why? Reliability wise, I still have a first CD I burned (Kodak CD) back in 1995 (nearly 15 years) and it is perfectly readable. At that time it cots me 10 GBP for the CD and to rent an hour time with our shared external burner (sized like a small PC) or rather the chap who owned it.

And I cannot say I particularly cared about it all these years - it has quite a few scratches but works perfectly.
Click to expand...

im with cowasaki.. scratching, dye degredation, lower capacity than HD. PERSONALLY i dont want 100's of CD/DVD's kicking around the place when i can just have a couple of HDs. yes okay HDs can also fail but thats why you always keep 2 copies.
 
dalex_257 said:
Why? Reliability wise, I still have a first CD I burned (Kodak CD) back in 1995 (nearly 15 years) and it is perfectly readable. At that time it cots me 10 GBP for the CD and to rent an hour time with our shared external burner (sized like a small PC) or rather the chap who owned it.

And I cannot say I particularly cared about it all these years - it has quite a few scratches but works perfectly.
Click to expand...

I have never found them as reliable myself. I have tried to get something back too many times and found a problem. I am happier with my backup routine.
 
Never had problems with CD's or DVDs that have been cared for. Eg: put in cases which block out light that can interfere with the dye. Ive got a load of Princo 4x DVD's from 2002/3 that are fine plus CD's from back in 1994/5/6 when the Blobby and Cappacino discs game out - anyone know what Im talking about there :p
 
Rikki said:
Never had problems with CD's or DVDs that have been cared for. Eg: put in cases which block out light that can interfere with the dye. Ive got a load of Princo 4x DVD's from 2002/3 that are fine plus CD's from back in 1994/5/6 when the Blobby and Cappacino discs game out - anyone know what Im talking about there :p
Click to expand...

From the link earlier it suggests that the problem is oxygen, not light, but I've no doubt that storage conditions can affect the rate of the breakdown of the bond between the layers.

the basic rule of backups is multiple backups and multiple locations, I've always worked on a minimum of three in a minimum of two locations.
 
I can see this turning into a Mac vs PC/Nikon vs Canon esque thread.

Just use what ever works for you, as long as you have multiple back ups on different media on different sites you should be fine. (And you do test restores every so often) ;)
 
I am going to go down the Drobo Route.

I did the DVD route, yes 25G is nice, but with the 5Dii outputting 25mb RAW files, and I can shoot 50G in 1 day. With other stuff, i am back to the old DVD-R scenario again, where i have spinndles of the stuff (with no clear idea what is EXACTLY on each one). Not to mention after a few years, they don't work !!! And I use Taiyo Yuden stuff too.

So now, Mirrored HD all the way.

pros are -

instant access to 500G/1TB of data
delete files and free up space
less space for same storage
don't degrade like dyes

Cons

Expensive (at the moment comapred to BR), but cheaper than 1TB of DVD-Rs though
could fail (but get 2 HDs, but back to the expensive bit again)

Personally, I'd rather get an HD, BR is cheaper, but you have to cater in the fact that you also need to spend money on the Drive too, at the moment, for the price of 1 BR drive, you can get about 3TB of HD.
 
neil_g said:
im with cowasaki.. scratching, dye degredation, lower capacity than HD. PERSONALLY i dont want 100's of CD/DVD's kicking around the place when i can just have a couple of HDs. yes okay HDs can also fail but thats why you always keep 2 copies.
Click to expand...

I was not saying HDD are worse - I'm using portable ones myself for backups (too many disks lying around). I just wanted to say that my experience with the earliest models of writable CDs is quite favourable (and that CD was data CD not an audio one).
 
cowasaki said:
I have never found them as reliable myself. I have tried to get something back too many times and found a problem. I am happier with my backup routine.
Click to expand...

May be I was just lucky. Personally I also prefer HDDs - massive storage in portable sizes (which I can hardly say about CD/DVD/BD)
 
trapper501 said:
From the link earlier it suggests that the problem is oxygen, not light, but I've no doubt that storage conditions can affect the rate of the breakdown of the bond between the layers.

the basic rule of backups is multiple backups and multiple locations, I've always worked on a minimum of three in a minimum of two locations.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, wish I had a fatter pipe (oh-er) to bung stuff up to a place like Carbonite but with me coming home with over 50-100gb of new data each week thats a tall order.

My comments about longevity were because I performed a test. I wrote two DVDs way back in the day and left one out on the table in my living room for a day, purple side up. After the day it was a goner but the same ones from that time in a carry case are still readable to this day :)
 
Raymond Lin said:
I am going to go down the Drobo Route.

I did the DVD route, yes 25G is nice, but with the 5Dii outputting 25mb RAW files, and I can shoot 50G in 1 day. With other stuff, i am back to the old DVD-R scenario again, where i have spinndles of the stuff (with no clear idea what is EXACTLY on each one). Not to mention after a few years, they don't work !!! And I use Taiyo Yuden stuff too........
Click to expand...

Ah I remember fondly the days when I was shooting JPG only on my Fuji S602 and had a 1gb IBM Microdrive. Amazing how things move forward but stay the same :D
 
:bang:

What if it corrupts itself? Gets nicked? House burns down?
 
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