Anyone else interested in the New Topographic Movement?

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Alan
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What the heck is that I hear you mutter. Well here is what Wikipedant says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Topographics

And here is another explanation - “New topographics was a term coined by William Jenkins in 1975 to describe a group of American photographers (such as Robert Adams and Lewis Baltz) whose pictures had a similar banal aesthetic, in that they were formal, mostly black and white prints of the urban landscape.”


Stephen Shore was a pioneer in using colour in [Urban] landscape photography.

I find it fascinating anyway :)
 
What the heck is that I hear you mutter. Well here is what Wikipedant says
"Wikipedant" is right. That entry probably deserves a special prize for something or other, along the lines of the Ig Nobels. :naughty:
 
And here is another explanation - “New topographics was a term coined by William Jenkins in 1975 to describe a group of American photographers (such as Robert Adams and Lewis Baltz) whose pictures had a similar banal aesthetic, in that they were formal, mostly black and white prints of the urban landscape.”

The Becher images aesthetic isn't banal, even if they were consistent.

I'd forgotten that's what it's called, and yes, I have an interest.
 
I wonder if New Topographics or Raymond Moore were featured in Amateur Photographer in the late '70's? I can't think what else might have prompted me to take photos like these!

southport-13,medium.1549388827.jpg

New-folder-12-11,medium.1551987243.jpg
 
This is more what I think of as topography but it is, of course, only one of many types...

Mountains by Innsbruck from air 1020409.jpg
 
I'm certainly interested in the work of the Becher's, and my current project is inspired by their photography of industrial structures. I'm currently photographing Britain's remaining colliery headgear, and am probably going to present them in a Becher like typology, although mine aren't as good and will probably end up looking more like a Panini football sticker album.Headgears 4-2.jpg
 
Any modern British photographers shooting in colour in this style?
The genre does seem to be flooded by American photographers, no doubt inspired by Shore and Eggleston.

The best I've seen recently was Mark Power's Black Country series, and even he's off shooting America now.
https://www.markpower.co.uk/Photographic-projects/BLACK-COUNTRY-STORIES
Iain Serjeant - https://iain-sarjeant.format.com/out-of-the-ordinary

Peter Mitchell to an extent - https://strangelyfamiliar.co.uk/gallery/iv-viking-space-mission/ Although his pictures could be seen as being documentary.
 
Iain Serjeant - https://iain-sarjeant.format.com/out-of-the-ordinary

Peter Mitchell to an extent - https://strangelyfamiliar.co.uk/gallery/iv-viking-space-mission/ Although his pictures could be seen as being documentary.

Cheers for that. I'm aware of Peter Mitchell, but his stuff is too nostalgic for my tastes. Ian Sarjeant I'm not aware of, but his stuff looks right up my street.

Went down the Google hole with Ian Serjaent to his publisher (Another Place), and all of his books look to be sold out sadly. Came across some other people on there though, John Irvine's book looks interesting. https://anotherplacepress.bigcartel.com/product/john-irvine-myrkvifiord
 
Cheers for that. I'm aware of Peter Mitchell, but his stuff is too nostalgic for my tastes. Ian Sarjeant I'm not aware of, but his stuff looks right up my street.

Went down the Google hole with Ian Serjaent to his publisher (Another Place), and all of his books look to be sold out sadly. Came across some other people on there though, John Irvine's book looks interesting. https://anotherplacepress.bigcartel.com/product/john-irvine-myrkvifiord

I have Myrkvifiord - its very nice, and the Another Place Press Zines are also fantastic, as are the zines from ADM - Collated Observations - I seem to have amassed a little collection! :D

B7aIvVKh.jpg
 
I have Myrkvifiord - its very nice, and the Another Place Press Zines are also fantastic, as are the zines from ADM - Collated Observations - I seem to have amassed a little collection! :D

B7aIvVKh.jpg
Just ordered the Tessa Bunney one which I thought had sold out last time I looked as I have a couple of her other publications. Publishers who do numbered series of zines must hate customers like me who aren't completists and only buy the odd one. :LOL:
 
Just ordered the Tessa Bunney one which I thought had sold out last time I looked as I have a couple of her other publications. Publishers who do numbered series of zines must hate customers like me who aren't completists and only buy the odd one. :LOL:

The Another Place Press do limited print runs, but repeat a run if they sell out and there is still interest.
 
I managed to watch over half that vidio.
Do I get a prize?

I would suggest he has spent a great deal of effort and many years producing fundamentally uninteresting photographs.
Most of us can do that with out any effort at all.
 
The Another Place Press do limited print runs, but repeat a run if they sell out and there is still interest.
I must keep an eye for that as I'd love to get the Iain Sarjeant Out of the Ordinary ones.
 
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I managed to watch over half that vidio.
Do I get a prize?

I would suggest he has spent a great deal of effort and many years producing fundamentally uninteresting photographs.
Most of us can do that with out any effort at all.
What's uninteresting to the goose can be interesting to the gander.

(To mangle my clichés. :giggle:)
 
One man's banalography is another woman's great art... :naughty:
 
I managed to watch over half that vidio.
Do I get a prize?

I would suggest he has spent a great deal of effort and many years producing fundamentally uninteresting photographs.
Most of us can do that with out any effort at all.

As I see it, the interesting part is usually about why the photos were taken, rather than the images themselves. Sometimes the sum of the parts is considerably greater, and sometimes it isn't. Perhaps I'm wrong, but with this kind of work it seems that the actual pictures are much less important than the story they might collectively tell (or that one might see if it's carefully explained to the viewer).
 
The title of the original exhibition was "Photographs of a Man-Altered Landscape" and for me that is the point, topography is the shape of the land, "new" topography is about the man-made shapes introduced into the landscape.

Apparently Frank Gohlke told the LA Times about the original exhibition "What I remember most clearly was that nobody liked it" :)
 
As I see it, the interesting part is usually about why the photos were taken, rather than the images themselves. Sometimes the sum of the parts is considerably greater, and sometimes it isn't. Perhaps I'm wrong, but with this kind of work it seems that the actual pictures are much less important than the story they might collectively tell (or that one might see if it's carefully explained to the viewer).
I liked the pictures as pictures before I knew anything about New Topographics. As I suggested earlier, perhaps I (and others) are naturally drawn to this kind of picture?

What I think initially appealed to me is the arrangement of shapes in the picture area. But that's always one of the picture making factors which decides if pictures 'work' or not for me. Shore makes the point about how individual elements in one photo relate to each other was a consideration for him in framing the shot.

The idea that anything can be arranged within the frame to form a coherent 'composition' seems perfectly normal to me.. Painters can alter sizes and positions of objects at will on the canvas. Outside of a studio type situation photographers, can only control the frame edge and viewpoint.
 
I liked the pictures as pictures before I knew anything about New Topographics. As I suggested earlier, perhaps I (and others) are naturally drawn to this kind of picture?
Me too. There is a style of "art" photograph with lower contrast and simpler colour palette that really appeals to *me*. A lot of people on here don't seem to like the style, which is fine with me, live and let live, but seems not to be fine with them. It's very existence seems to be some sort of affront to some people, which is an attitude I will never understand.
 
My copy of Myrkvifiord by John Irvine turned up today, with a nice handwritten thank you from Ian Sarjeant.

Book itself is great, and just what I'd been after. Someone doing similar work to Alec Soth et al, but shot in the UK.
I also like that it's small and paperback, my book shelf can only take so many books like Genesis or Good Morning America.
 
Thanks for bringing my attention to some of these photographers. What might be called New Topography has been one thread running through my work for many years. I was blown away by the Bechers recent exhibition and I was a great admirer of Fay Godwin (and still am); she would probably fit into this genre?
 
I thought it was going to be about an album by Yes

 
Thanks for bringing my attention to some of these photographers. What might be called New Topography has been one thread running through my work for many years. I was blown away by the Bechers recent exhibition and I was a great admirer of Fay Godwin (and still am); she would probably fit into this genre?

Our Forbidden Land definitely would do, a great book way ahead of its time.
 
Our Forbidden Land definitely would do, a great book way ahead of its time.


She began her career as a fairly straightforward "landscape" photographer and ended up embracing the banal in some depth. I like the way most of her work had some kind of environmental message.
 
The title of the original exhibition was "Photographs of a Man-Altered Landscape" and for me that is the point, topography is the shape of the land, "new" topography is about the man-made shapes introduced into the landscape.

That description works well for me. Not that the landscape isn't 99.9% man-altered though, but we probably all understand what he means........

But I had a bit of a light bulb moment the other day; While out with the camera I spend so much time in nature or searching for it. Occasionally I come across something that very clearly shows what a strange relationship we have with it. It can be just a snap of something I see as I drive along a country lane or walk along a footpath.

_8020944.jpg


The concept of psychogeography seems very relevant to this way of working, but has not really been applied to photography. Has anyone else come across it? It seems so relevant to the photographer.
 
The concept of psychogeography seems very relevant to this way of working, but has not really been applied to photography. Has anyone else come across it? It seems so relevant to the photographer.
I've seen psychogeography applied to photographic projects, but can't remember where. I seem to recall one about the Thames estuary - not the one Google threw up by Nadav Kander https://www.nadavkander.com/exhibitions/dark-line-the-thames-estuary

Google produces up plenty of links but none which ring any bells.
 
I've seen psychogeography applied to photographic projects, but can't remember where. I seem to recall one about the Thames estuary - not the one Google threw up by Nadav Kander https://www.nadavkander.com/exhibitions/dark-line-the-thames-estuary

Google produces up plenty of links but none which ring any bells.

Dave, was it you who said you had one of my books? If it was Wales at Waters Edge I wrote about the connections I found with psychogeography in the Afterword.

This is a section of it:


During the project I became aware of the term “psychogeography”, and as a psychology graduate with an interest in all things geographical, I was intrigued. The word seems to have as many definitions as users, which have included architects, anarchists, philosophers and particularly writers. But never photographers.

A distillation of the many possible meanings of the term psychogeographer might be “urban wanderer as author”, and writers such as Will Self and Iain Sinclair have been described as such. The elasticity of the definition has also allowed the inclusion of the rural writer Alfred Watkins into the genre and also the film-maker Patrick Keiller, director of the “Robinson” trilogy. His subject matter is gently and perceptively political and both urban and rural..

One definition of psychogeography suggests it is a study of “….the confluence of people and place, the manner in which our environment impacts upon us and vice versa.” Who better to tackle this than the photographer? Yet to my knowledge the term has never been so used.


It was written about nine years ago....so things might have changed since then.
 
Dave, was it you who said you had one of my books? If it was Wales at Waters Edge I wrote about the connections I found with psychogeography in the Afterword.

This is a section of it:


During the project I became aware of the term “psychogeography”, and as a psychology graduate with an interest in all things geographical, I was intrigued. The word seems to have as many definitions as users, which have included architects, anarchists, philosophers and particularly writers. But never photographers.

A distillation of the many possible meanings of the term psychogeographer might be “urban wanderer as author”, and writers such as Will Self and Iain Sinclair have been described as such. The elasticity of the definition has also allowed the inclusion of the rural writer Alfred Watkins into the genre and also the film-maker Patrick Keiller, director of the “Robinson” trilogy. His subject matter is gently and perceptively political and both urban and rural..

One definition of psychogeography suggests it is a study of “….the confluence of people and place, the manner in which our environment impacts upon us and vice versa.” Who better to tackle this than the photographer? Yet to my knowledge the term has never been so used.


It was written about nine years ago....so things might have changed since then.
I do have that book and I have mentioned it on here. I'd forgotten that bit.
 
Virtually the whole of the land mass of the UK is man made and altered to serve his needs.
Every Age has played its part in scaping what we have to day.
Time and dust from space and erosion covers up one age from the next in an endless process
The early industrial heritage of the mid 1700's is now largely covered by fresh flora or new builds.
The evidence of the two world wars is now almost entirely hidden.

What I knew and loved as a child is mostly gone... built over and covered in tarmac, unrecognisable.

Photography can never adequately show these changes , they are too slow. and never have an end point,
Just strings in time. From then to now.
To have meaning they need to show emotion, loss, and hope for the future.
This is not adequately covered by the banal.

You see more of this loss in photographs of abandoned homes and places of work And images of past people living their daily lives.
This can be best achieved by recording the now for future generations, not as "Art" photography, but as a record of life as we live it, and the processes of change as we recognise it. in the context of our own time.
 
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