Aperture to Shutter Speed Table?

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Danny133

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Daniel
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Would that work? Similar to times tables ..

for example

1/100 = ?F
1/125 = ?F
1/160 = ?F
1/200 = ?F
1/250 = ?F

and so on ... ignoring ISO for now as that could be set to auto
 
err :thinking: I don't get why you'd want this?

Assuming you're outside, in normal daylight hours, with auto ISO set, you could pretty much dial in f8 for any of these speeds and let the ISO change accordingly. I say could, as presuming your using your 50D, it's got a meter, so how about just setting the speed and aperture you need for the shot? Failing that, if you just want a easy way to keep to a shutter speed use Tv.


But to calculate the aperture needed for a given speed...

1/100 = F
1/125 = F/1.119
1/160 = F/(1.119^2)
1/200 = F/1.4
1/250 = F/(1.4*1.119)

* for the purists - I know it's not exactly 1.4 (square root of 2) and 1.119 (cube root of (square root of 2)) but they're near enough for rock and roll :lol:
 
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Danny133 said:
Would that work? Similar to times tables ..

for example

1/100 = ?F
1/125 = ?F
1/160 = ?F
1/200 = ?F
1/250 = ?F

and so on ... ignoring ISO for now as that could be set to auto
Click to expand...

The thing is, like BY says, if you're going to attach a certain f-stop to a shutter seed then the only other factor that can change is the ISO, unless you increase the actual amount of light.

It's a bit of a non-starter.....
 
im just curious

id like to learn to use my camera in manual

so changing ISO F stop and SP is quite a big chunk of info to learn .. im just thinking of things to simpligy it for me without using AV or TV
 
you cannot relate aperture and shutter, on a bright day you might shoot at 1/1000 @ f8, on a dull day you may struggle to do 1/320 @ f8.

For now set the ISO to say 200 and keep it constant, then just adjust shutter & aperture, if you run out of shutter & aperture then bump up the ISO.

One rule can you use is your shutter speed should be at least the same as your focal length, so if you are shooting at 100mm your shutter should be 1/100th or higher.
Some say you should keep the shutter higher than focal length * crop. So if you have a 1.6 crop camera and are shooting at 100mm focal length your shutter should be 1/160th or higher (100 * 1.6) = 160

shutter = 1/(focal length * crop)
 
thanks craft thats actually very helpful

so if i STICK to 200 ISO and only adjust shutter and aperture .. HOWEVER if its still to dim up the ISO and dont use flash?

IM shooting with a 50mm so as long as its 1/50 min im okay?
 
yep you got it, I always treat upping ISO as a last resort (not sure if thats accepted practice mind).

Keep in mind these are all "rules" and as such meant to be broken, I've shot with a 50mm at 1/8th handheld in very low light, not ideal but you can do it.

Use the histogram to check out what the exposure is doing and alter aperture/shutter accordingly. I think altering shutter has less side effects than altering aperture (depth of field etc).
 
Are you looking more at the effect of changing one value and the effect it has on the other? If so, then apologies for not understanding :)

So, say the correct metered exposure is 1/250th @ f/8 then you can do the following:

1/2000th @ f/2.8
1/1000th @ f/4
1/500th @ f/5.6
1/250th @ f/8
1/125th @ f/11
1/60th @ f/16
1/30th @ f/22

These are full stops; of course you can have half and third stops in ISO, aperture and shutter speed, but my tiny brain can't work these out at this moment!! :)

These values are all equal so effectively create the same image in terms of exposure, but of course the effect of faster/slower shutter speeds and the change in aperture (DoF) will ultimately dictate the 'right' exposure values for you :)

In terms of 'holdable' lens-to-shutter speeds, what's been said already is good advice (shutter speed equals or is greater than focal length of lens), although it's best to practise good holding technique to minimise shake, such as breathing out when using long lenses. :thumbs"
 
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By far the best site I have found for this so far is

http://web.forret.com/tools/aperture.asp

I notice that you are working in 1/3rd stops which can get pretty damned confusing unless you are a mathematical genius.

I've got my camera menu settings for whole stop values only (you can usually select whole, half or third stops) as it just makes it so much easier to remember which settings you like.
 
I can set my camera only to pick exact stops?

Alot of my work is indoors in a dim room with tungsten lights .. Even at 1600 iso it's dark :(
 
Hi Danny...

Apologies if you already know this....

You know when you turn the dial to adjust either shutter or aperture it moves in 1/2s or 1/3rds stops. It can be set as a custom function to move in half or third stops.

Therefore, if you move the dial 3 clicks on the shutter when set at third increments, then selecting aperture and moving three clicks in the other direction will return the same exposure. So you can control the effect of DoF or shutter speed yet retain the exposure as long as you are not at the limits of the meter.

So there is no fixed relationship as such, but you can relate the turning of the dial/clicks to control exposure.

If you find you are still underexposed, then an increment on the ISO is one stop (well on my 500D, there is no intermediate stops as such).


Andy
 
Danny133 said:
I can set my camera only to pick exact stops?

Alot of my work is indoors in a dim room with tungsten lights .. Even at 1600 iso it's dark :(
Click to expand...

Yep, full stops, half stops and probably 1/3rd stops - the latter two help when wanting to really fine-tune exposure.

Are you intending to use flash at any point?
 
if i explain where i am completely you will understand my needs lol

i have a 50D with a 50mm 1.4 .. that is all ..

I am in my spare bedroom which is a poorly lit tungsten room .. i have a big white backdrop and i have purchased 2 430 exII's and hope to have a 580 when i can afford it .. i have also bought stands and reflective umbrellas and a pop out reflector

i want to practise with portraits which during the day is not so bad as lightings average but come night time its pish

im open to any suggestions as im clueless
 
and my point about setting my camera to exact stops .. yeah i know what a stop is lol .. i mean can i lock the camera to ONLY show me full stops in the dial and ignore the half and 1/3 or do i have to scroll through them
 
Danny133 said:
I can set my camera only to pick exact stops?

Alot of my work is indoors in a dim room with tungsten lights .. Even at 1600 iso it's dark :(
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the 50D, but my old Nikon D70 would only let me set 1/3rd or half stop stepping for aperture, shutter and ISO and it really bugged me as it meant at least twice the amount of dial twiddling to set each exposure.

The D700 allows 1/3rd, half and full stop dial steps to be set for aperture, shutter and ISO and I would never buy another camera that forces me to always work in smaller steps.
 
Danny133 said:
and my point about setting my camera to exact stops .. yeah i know what a stop is lol .. i mean can i lock the camera to ONLY show me full stops in the dial and ignore the half and 1/3 or do i have to scroll through them
Click to expand...


Unsure about the 50D, but the 500D is only 1/3rd and 1/2s.

Is there any benefit other than speed using Full Stops? I'm no expert but I would have thought more flexibility would generally be preferred. Worse case scenario is set at 1/2s and its only two clicks of the wheel to move 1 Stop.
 
my head hurts im reading what your writing and its blurry

im trying to bang this

typically i need a reasonably fast shutter speed as people move no matter how still you make them .. there going to move!

So shutter speed needs to be at least 1/50 (i think?) Obv less ISO noise the better!

I dont want to be stopping down at 1.4 because its going to be too shallow i want i guess around 2.8 which means bumping ISO to around 1600 sometimes more ..
 
i understand the correlation and am learning it as i go but when people mention the meter .. what meter .. yes the camera has a light meter but how do i view it :S
 
Yeah what you said in a nutshell is correct,

1.4 to 2.8 is Two Stops. Assuming your metering is where you want it at f1.4, you would have to bump ISO by two stops as more noise is preferrable to subject motion blur caused by reducing shutter speed.

Maybe f2 ISO 800 would be a better compromise but as I have never used that lens I can't tell you how well it works at that aperture.

Of course you have those flashes. That maybe your only hope is such low light. Are those included in your equation above or you waiting till you can fire them in ETTL?
 
Danny133 said:
i understand the correlation and am learning it as i go but when people mention the meter .. what meter .. yes the camera has a light meter but how do i view it :S
Click to expand...

At the bottom of the viewfinder or on LCD


-2..-1..0..1..2 <-- something like that with a marker indicating exposure?
l
 
for now im learning the camera manual only .. the flashes will only fire in ETTL .. id like to learn to use them too but for now just concentrating on the cameras light with no aid :)

i want a full head and shoulders in focus .. so i guess i want about 2.8 (guesstimate?)

an ISO of 800 improves it alot ..

is the light meter the exposure bar that moves between -2 and +2?
 
Danny133 said:
my head hurts im reading what your writing and its blurry

im trying to bang this

typically i need a reasonably fast shutter speed as people move no matter how still you make them .. there going to move!

So shutter speed needs to be at least 1/50 (i think?) Obv less ISO noise the better!

I dont want to be stopping down at 1.4 because its going to be too shallow i want i guess around 2.8 which means bumping ISO to around 1600 sometimes more ..
Click to expand...

1/60s, f/2.8, iso1600 is "EV5" (exposure value) - If this is still too dark the only way to set a lower exposure value is to bump up the ISO to 3200 (giving EV4). This is obviously not desirable (due to noise) so the only real solution is to go for brighter lighting.
 
ah lol yeah thats it then ..

so whats the crack i want that in the middle?
 
So as long as that light bar meter is in the middle the shot is correctly exposed?

Just used it as a guide and it seemed to make the shot lit correctly?
 
Daniel you need to sit down quietly and read your camera manual - bet you haven't so far. Then get a couple of good books on exposure and read them cover to cover. At the moment you come across like a blind man in a china shop - stumbling into things and having one disaster after another. You need to get a proper grasp of the principles of photography and I'm not sure a forum is the place to do that.
 
awp said:
Daniel you need to sit down quietly and read your camera manual - bet you haven't so far. Then get a couple of good books on exposure and read them cover to cover. At the moment you come across like a blind man in a china shop - stumbling into things and having one disaster after another. You need to get a proper grasp of the principles of photography and I'm not sure a forum is the place to do that.
Click to expand...

Andrew .. i have read the manual and it was pish lol .. it just tells me how to push buttons to select menus and rubbish ..

ive posted a couple of threads lately asking for book recomendations but had not many replies

i have just order light science and magic and am not looking for something else ..

i disagree about the forum this place is full of so many patient and helpful people .. Andy whos commented in here comments in 99% of my threads and despite my "stupid" questions he always answers me politely and helpfully .. as do most.

that is how i learn and that way other people who a re sturggling stumble across my thread and copy and learn aswell

tonight ive learnt about light meters and its just taught me how to correctly expose my shot AND shoot in full manual!

this morning i was on AV and auto ISO .. now im full manual!

ok ive not nailed it but its taken away my nerves to try it and not loose photos
 
Danny133 said:
ah lol yeah thats it then ..

so whats the crack i want that in the middle?
Click to expand...

Sorta yes lol....It depends what is being metered.

Again, not best qualified to answer this, but the meter looks for a middle grey/midtone/18% grey.

Generally the meter at zero would be a decent exposure. However the meter can be fooled by excess white or black in the scene and it will compensate for this. Whites can become grey(er) and black can become grey(er).

To confuse matters more, evidence suggests that exposing/metering to the right (ExposeToTheRight) and then adjusting the exposure back down in the software gives the best overall image quality.
 
Your other thread did get you good advice on books:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=3365830&postcount=3
and
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=3366456&postcount=7
to start with.

The problem with a forum like this for a beginner is it is difficult to tell the good advice from the cr*p - and there is lots of the latter usually!

Full manual is not necessarily the way to go - what's the point of buying the latest technology only to use stone age methods? Manual is only OK when you understand what shutter speed - aperture and ISO mean - and the relationship between them.

Until then - take pictures - analyse your results and keep at it. Practical experience is often much better than hours of studying theory!
 
ive just ordered the scott kelby ones as they looked good on amazon when i had a read inside them .. plus he looked humerous so i wont get bored!

and to answer my meterign question

generally as long as the meter is in the middle or a little to the right ill be exposed okay yeah?

so i can choose a low F number for a shallow DOF and as long as i speed the shutter up ill get a correct exposure ..


similarly if i want a F22 shot for a nice clear landscape i would have to slow the shutter down to let in more light and get a correct exposure?
 
That is the general principle - yes. The shutter controls 'the degree of blur' in an image and the aperture controls 'the depth of field'. Working together they produce the exposure.

Your working in digital!! You can check each shot on your screen - or computer - to find out if the exposure is correct or not. How do you think we managed with film???

I still think you're trying to run before you can walk - you need to use simple set ups and master them first.
 
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Danny133 said:
if i explain where i am completely you will understand my needs lol

i have a 50D with a 50mm 1.4 .. that is all ..

I am in my spare bedroom which is a poorly lit tungsten room .. i have a big white backdrop and i have purchased 2 430 exII's and hope to have a 580 when i can afford it .. i have also bought stands and reflective umbrellas and a pop out reflector

i want to practise with portraits which during the day is not so bad as lightings average but come night time its pish

im open to any suggestions as im clueless
Click to expand...

Just a suggestion but with what you have put one flash on the background one light in front at 45deg with an umbrella to the subject and the reflector the other side to get some fill in light, and expose for the flashes.
You will most likely only be able to do half length or head and shoulders.
 
Yeah Danny thats about right.

Another thing to get your head around tonight if you want to is the Histogram and how to understand it. I always shoot with this displayed during the image review on the LCD as this shows accurately the exposure/tonal range captured as well as the ' overexposure blinkies' on the image.

As you say, its a beginners subsection of the forum so my answers will always come with a disclaimer lol, but I will try and answer any fellow beginner as I travelled down the same path.

I might not be 100% accurate, but I have no issue being corrected by some of the TP Legends :thumbs: Oh just for reference, all my knowledge has come totally from here - no books. I may have read more detailed information, but the links and pointers has come soley from TP. Thats a big credit to the forum:thumbs:

This is another useful little app for working out depth of field, again supplied by another TP user HoppyUK http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
 
Danny - not sure if I'm understanding (bear with me here)...

*You want to do studio-type head-and-shoulders portraits
*The room you're shooting in is dim
*You own some flashguns
*You're currently shooting at very high ISOs (1600) because it's so dim

Personally I'd get the flashguns up and running because A) it'll help you out more light into the shot (so lower ISO = less noise), and B) it'll help you produce better looking shots than those done under (dim) natural light.

Before you start thinking about DoF and trying to burden yourself with info that will be better appreciated later down the line, I'd pin down how to use that camera in a mode you feel comfortable using, be it manual, AV etc.....*

I've lost track of this thread a bit because there's so much going on - hopefully that sums it up in a nutshell :)

*(That's not a criticism BTW; it's what I'd say to anyone because it's all too easy to get bogged down in technical issues when all you want to do is snap away and take shots :))
 
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Thanks guys .. i think i understand exposing etc etc and ive managed to get my ISO down to 200 tonight WITH NO FLASH! whilst having correct exposures!

Andy ..

Histogram .. i always look at that and wonder WTF its meant to look like .. any pointers?
 
Danny
There's a fair bit to learn. If you shoot a white peice of paper, you would need to over expose by +1.5 or +2 stops because the meter trys to average the scene to an 18% grey (try this at home) Just a plain white sheet. How far do you need to over expose till you get white (look at the histogram)

When using flash you need to forget the ambient light and pretty much forget the meter in your camera (unless you need ambient light in the scene)

You have 2x flashes. When yusing flash it doesn't matter whether it's daytime or nighttime - you can get the same results - In fact better to try and remove ambient light if you can when using your white backdrop.

Your flashes can be used in Manual! You really need to read the manual given and ask questions as you go.

Basically you want a flash firing onto the background and you want that set to between 1 and 2 stops brighter there than on the subject.

You should be able to set ISO100, f8, 1/125th and addust the power of the flash to get a good exposure on your subject.

You can set your flash anywhere from full power down to 1/64th so quite a good range of control.

You are looking at things in the wrong way I think and there's a lot of confusing advice on the thread.
 
Danny133 said:
Thanks guys .. i think i understand exposing etc etc and ive managed to get my ISO down to 200 tonight WITH NO FLASH! whilst having correct exposures!

Andy ..

Histogram .. i always look at that and wonder WTF its meant to look like .. any pointers?
Click to expand...

Danny - If you are using ISO200 without flash you're not doing it right because your SS will be VERY slow!

For portraits in a room, you do not want ANY ambient light in the scene.
 
yes i know 200 is too slow lol thats what ive just been standing up doing .. wacking the speed up to atleast 1/50 and then adjusting the ISO to compensate :)


so if i want portraits your saying turn the lights off so its pitch black and just use flash lol!?
 
Danny133 said:
Thanks guys .. i think i understand exposing etc etc and ive managed to get my ISO down to 200 tonight WITH NO FLASH! whilst having correct exposures!

Andy ..

Histogram .. i always look at that and wonder WTF its meant to look like .. any pointers?
Click to expand...

You could start off here regarding Histograms. They might blow your mind, but they are actually pretty simply things, so dont worry if you dont get it right away. You can do a simple test by varying your exposure of the same scene, say by 1stop above and below where you meter and see how that correlates to the histogram.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml

Regarding your flashes, I just caught the bit about manual - as you know we spoke about flashes and ETTL:lol:

They can be fired in manual as mentioned by Jim, however you will need those radio triggers I mentioned in that other thread - the RF602's.
 
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