Arca-Swiss D4
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Pretty sure I saw a thread over on POTN earlier today discussing just this very head. The guy was having problems getting his RRS and Wimberley plates to fit.
Just had a look thanks. Not liking someone calling it 'unbelievable poorly engineered adjustment' though. Might take a look at their C1 Cube.
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I've only used a D4 briefly, and it was fabulous. I almost bought one, but actually the geared M'frotto 405 is better for what I do. There is absolutely nothing 'poorly engineered' about anything Arca Swiss.
I don't much like the design of their clamps though, and I don't like lever-clamps either, so I'd swap that for a bog standard screw-lock clamp.
I don't much like the design of their clamps though, and I don't like lever-clamps either, so I'd swap that for a bog standard screw-lock clamp.
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I think it was also mentioned in that other thread that Arca-Swiss are making their clamps non-removable now, so you can't swap them out for something else - not sure how true that is.
I was hoping it wouldn't be poorly engineered considering the materials used and price. It's usually a good endorsement when people test it and want to follow through on a purchase. Have you used the C1 Cube? I was looking at it and the rip off version Photoclam Multi-Flex from South Korea.
Cheers I'll look into that.
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They're not quite non-removable, just tricky. It needs local heat on the bolt, while not roasting the rest of the head mech, and a bit of bravery. Easy with the right gear/knowledge, almost impossible without.
TBF, there's nothing wrong with the A-S Classic screw clamp, I'd be quite happy with that. It's only the lever-lock clamp, and that daft Slidefix thing I don't like. No doubt others love them
I've not used an A-S Cube, or the Photoclam clone. A total engineering tour de force, but not for me - even at half the price. I've also seen pictures of a SunwayFoto clone of the D4, though I don't think it's in production yet.
Robert White has demo models of most A-S heads - well worth a visit
It's Robert White's site I'm looking at as they do seem to be the premier dealer for things of this nature, although stock levels seem to be a problem with this tripod head from the feedback I've been reading. If it wasn't a 900 mile round trip I'd be in their shop like a flash. I've been overlooking the tripod and head for a while which is foolish of me considering you're only as strong as your weakest link. I'd like to get something sorted for going out in the wilderness before spring/summer.
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I've had a play with the cube, it is as gorgeous as one might imagine for the price.
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Robert White are aware their shop is nowhere near anybody
Though I've never put this to the test, they've always assured me they'll take back anything purchased mail-order, provided it's as-new.Unless you particularly want a geared head, the D4m is also very nice indeed. You can use it almost like a ball head with everything unlocked, but then still have the option of adjustment in individual planes. But then if it's a ball head you're after, arguably the most versatile all-round choice, then the Z1 is a wonderful thing
Edit: as I've mentioned before, the head I keep promising myself as a lighter-weight walkabout choice is the Arca Swiss P0. Amazing little thing, probably with a SunwayFoto circular clamp on top. Needs to be used with an L-bracket for vertical shots though.
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The whole A-S range looks tempting, they look elegant which is an odd thing to see from a tripod head. I usually associate all my ex-tripod heads with sloppy workmanship and finger mangling clunkiness. Is there a big difference in ease of use in the Quickset Fliplock and Quickset Classic?
It looks lovely to use and I can see why it is called the 'Magic Box', although the sticker price shock put me off a bit.
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I've only used the A-S Classic screw-lock clamp in anger, so to speak. It's fine, like all screw-lock clamps IMHO. I've used several other lever-lock clamps though, and don't like any of them. Quite apart from the fractionally different plate sizes nonsense (there are ways around that with certain brands of clamp) I simply prefer the simplicity and security of the screw type. With levers, when the tripod is critically positioned, it's sometimes hard not to accidentally move the whole tripod unless you use both hands or are very careful. I just don't see the point of them, and I know I'm not the only one, but others obviously like them. Just don't assume they're automatically better
It's the same with the various proprietary safety locks, invented to solve a non-existent problem, but just get in the way IMHO. The A-S systems' integral lock-stops, built into all clamps and plates, are so simple and totally safe.
The classic did appeal to me just through the name classic, given that would mean it has stood the test of time and a lot of use to become 'classic'. The words classic, simple and high build quality are words I like when buying something which is why the A-S line looks appealing. I e-mailed Robert White about the D4 geared head and when it might be in stock. Would you have any preference on a Gitzo tripod to mount one of these heads on? I'm thinking carbon fibre, but open to suggestion.
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All Gitzos are good. They only make excellent tripods, and don't have a cheaper 'consumer' range (that's Manfrotto LOL - same parent company). The one for you is subjective. Choose one of the basic design types, then the size, then carbon fibre or aluminium. CF is a bit lighter, alli quite a lot cheaper.
My only advice is to take your time, and buy right. Most folks do very nicely with just one tripod, usually a series-2 size, good all-rounder. Others might have two - a bigger one for long lenses or maybe studio work, and then a lighter folding traveller-style tripod for trekking and stuff.
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I can recommend the explorer series, they won't suit everyone but the legs that can be set at any angle work perfectly for landscape use, for example when in a stream I'll have one leg on the bank, one on the bed of the stream and one on a rock.
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In my opinion the series 2 don't seem to be one thing or another, not that short for travelling and not as sturdy as the series 3 considering the small weight difference
My favourite is the series 3 systematic, stable, reasonably light, sensible height extended and folds down to 55cm for carrying (4 leg section model)
How good are the Gitzos at repelling sand, dirt and water? My Giottos tripod just now isn't anything to write home about and ends up bringing half the beach back in the mechanisms. I was offered a used Gitzo Ocean tripod by someone I know upgrading, but I passed.
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Lol I have seen it all now, tripod leg condoms. On the Lloyd Chambers site he stopped recommending Gitzo tripods (repair problems, build quality problems) in favour of Really Right Stuff, although some of these reviewers I do wonder what motives there are e.g. endorsing something that they get for free.
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TBH, while I'm sure RRS tripods are superbly made, I think the main appeal of all RRS kit is Made in America, sold to Americans. Nothing wrong with that, and it's part of the reason I like Billingham bags
There's no rocket science to making a tripod. The basic design has been honed over decades, and it's really down to the quality of materials and engineering. Gitzos are as good as it gets, though some of the better Chinese clones run them very close for a lot less money, like Feisol and the better Benros.
No tripod is immune to salt water and sand. Gitzo's approach seems to work - make the tripod as resistant as reasonably possible without compromising functionality, then make it easy to strip down and clean, with replacement parts available even for older models.
For best water resistance, get a 3-section tripod so the sealed bottom section is longer (more rigid too) and keep any water/mud/salt etc below the bottom leg joint. Benbo is a brand worth looking at, they have 2-section legs with a very long sealed bottom section http://macrocam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/benbo-tripod.html The design is not to everybody's taste, but don't judge before you've actually used one. They're brilliant in a lot of ways (no longer British made though) and I'd love to see what an innovative manufacturer could do with the clever 'bent-bolt' locking system and modern materials. Maybe RRS should take a look at it
There's no rocket science to making a tripod. The basic design has been honed over decades, and it's really down to the quality of materials and engineering. Gitzos are as good as it gets, though some of the better Chinese clones run them very close for a lot less money, like Feisol and the better Benros.
No tripod is immune to salt water and sand. Gitzo's approach seems to work - make the tripod as resistant as reasonably possible without compromising functionality, then make it easy to strip down and clean, with replacement parts available even for older models.
For best water resistance, get a 3-section tripod so the sealed bottom section is longer (more rigid too) and keep any water/mud/salt etc below the bottom leg joint. Benbo is a brand worth looking at, they have 2-section legs with a very long sealed bottom section http://macrocam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/benbo-tripod.html The design is not to everybody's taste, but don't judge before you've actually used one. They're brilliant in a lot of ways (no longer British made though) and I'd love to see what an innovative manufacturer could do with the clever 'bent-bolt' locking system and modern materials. Maybe RRS should take a look at it
I do get a bit of bias towards RRS from American forums, although their stuff to be fair does look well made. I agree on the Billingham front I like mine, so well made and feels and looks the part. Another thing Lloyd Chambers site has thrown up is the Burzynski ball head, ever come across this contraption on your travels?
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Never even seen a Burzynski. It's quirky simplicity is appealing, but it's a bit of a lump. As I mentioned above, when it comes to ball heads, it's hard to see how the Arca Swiss Z1 might be improved in any meaningful way.
Yeah I can't see past the Arca-Swiss line myself. It is looking like a toss up between the Cube and the D4 with the D4m close. Just waiting on an e-mail from Robert White, although I did see photo specialist have them in stock so may have to go continental. I contacted Wex and they said to basically contact Arca-Swiss as they don't do those heads.
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Robert White are aware their shop is nowhere near anybody
Unless you particularly want a geared head, the D4m is also very nice indeed. You can use it almost like a ball head with everything unlocked, but then still have the option of adjustment in individual planes. But then if it's a ball head you're after, arguably the most versatile all-round choice, then the Z1 is a wonderful thing
Edit: as I've mentioned before, the head I keep promising myself as a lighter-weight walkabout choice is the Arca Swiss P0. Amazing little thing, probably with a SunwayFoto circular clamp on top. Needs to be used with an L-bracket for vertical shots though.
I've had the P0 for some time, and never used an L-bracket. Shooting vertical is indeed a bit of a nightmare, and after reading your post I had a look on Robert White and have ordered the arca swiss L-bracket monoball fix. It should be here tomorrow, can't wait to try it out
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I've had the P0 for some time, and never used an L-bracket. Shooting vertical is indeed a bit of a nightmare, and after reading your post I had a look on Robert White and have ordered the arca swiss L-bracket monoball fix. It should be here tomorrow, can't wait to try it out
Cool
That Arca Swiss L-bracket is not my cup of tea though, and very expensive...
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Cool
Yes expensive, but I'm hoping its worth it.
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A-S stuff is always quality, so long as you're aware of the difference with their L-bracket. Basically, A-S L-brackets are primarily intended to be fitted to the tripod head, and left there. The more popular type is designed to be kept on the camera. Upsides and downsides to each.
I was looking at their full size L bracket on Robert White and a smaller plate for my DP Merrill. They contacted me today and said they would have D4 heads in this week, but they will sell fast. Didn't realise they don't do tripods though which I found odd, although Wex do a really good range of Gitzos that I'll probably pull the trigger on tomorrow.
They're not quite non-removable, just tricky. It needs local heat on the bolt, while not roasting the rest of the head mech, and a bit of bravery. Easy with the right gear/knowledge, almost impossible without.
TBF, there's nothing wrong with the A-S Classic screw clamp, I'd be quite happy with that. It's only the lever-lock clamp, and that daft Slidefix thing I don't like. No doubt others love them
I've not used an A-S Cube, or the Photoclam clone. A total engineering tour de force, but not for me - even at half the price. I've also seen pictures of a SunwayFoto clone of the D4, though I don't think it's in production yet.
Robert White has demo models of most A-S heads - well worth a visit
Thanks for the advice. Just to update if you were interested I ended up going with the Cube and Gitzo:
The engineering looks impeccable on the tripod and the head.
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Cool, enjoy.
The Gitzo GT3532LS Series 3 6X Systematic Tripod:
http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-3-carbon-tripod-long-3-section-eye-level-gt3532ls
It seems well made and light but not unstable, plus it goes down to about 10cm'ish which is handy. I'm not planning on any submerging of gear either touch wood. I wasn't sure of the accuracy of weight claims for tripods or heads, which to me sometimes seem optimistic, but again not something I want to test out. You are right about the Cube, it seems to be very precise and looking at it in pics in reviews I wondered how solid it would be as it looks unorthodox but it feels very stable.
http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-3-carbon-tripod-long-3-section-eye-level-gt3532ls
It seems well made and light but not unstable, plus it goes down to about 10cm'ish which is handy. I'm not planning on any submerging of gear either touch wood. I wasn't sure of the accuracy of weight claims for tripods or heads, which to me sometimes seem optimistic, but again not something I want to test out. You are right about the Cube, it seems to be very precise and looking at it in pics in reviews I wondered how solid it would be as it looks unorthodox but it feels very stable.
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Lovely job.
On weights, I guess you mean load weights. They are almost meaningless, and having spoken to a few manufacturers about them, nobody has been able to tell me with any certainly how they're actually measured. And as far as physical weights and dimensions of the tripods is concerned, I double-checked about half a dozen brands some time ago and only Gitzo and Manfrotto were accurate...
On weights, I guess you mean load weights. They are almost meaningless, and having spoken to a few manufacturers about them, nobody has been able to tell me with any certainly how they're actually measured. And as far as physical weights and dimensions of the tripods is concerned, I double-checked about half a dozen brands some time ago and only Gitzo and Manfrotto were accurate...
Yeah sorry the load weights is what I meant. Some of them from looking about raised a few eyebrows and I did wonder how or if they even tested them or it was just a marketing gimmick. The supposed limit for the Gitzo is 25kg and the Arca 68kg but unless a person is planning on sitting on it I can't see a problem. I thought camera lenses were a minefield, the whole tripod and head research with so many model numbers and different plates and chucks and fits was making my head spin.
Thanks for the advice. Just to update if you were interested I ended up going with the Cube and Gitzo:
The engineering looks impeccable on the tripod and the head.
The Cube looks a lot bigger than the Arca Swiss D4 - is it in real life?
(D4 here - http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/arca-swiss-d4-geared-head-quickset-fliplock.html).
I did see them both together here:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/440418-post11.html
Not much in it I don't think, although when I opened the box it was bigger than I thought it would be.
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/440418-post11.html
Not much in it I don't think, although when I opened the box it was bigger than I thought it would be.
It's hard to tell from those pics because he's used two different tripods (Gitzo for the Cube and Feisol for the D4) so the baseplates may have different diameters.
Both heads look really well-built but I think I'd prefer the D4, mainly because its controls are closer to my BH-55 (and I'm not so sure about all those sharp corners on the Cube).
Both heads look really well-built but I think I'd prefer the D4, mainly because its controls are closer to my BH-55 (and I'm not so sure about all those sharp corners on the Cube).