Archant group ditches photographers

jon ryan said:
A lot of poor journalism isn't down to poor journalists (and a lot is!). There is tremendous pressure on them these days. No only are there far fewer per title, but they are under pressure to get the stuff out fast - too fast for proper, considered writing and research.

Nick Davie's excellent Flat Earth News is a great read on the subject if you're interested in this stuff.
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Yeah I agree, there are good journalists as well as bad ones. Even if they are under pressure though surely getting basic facts right is important but seems to not happen quite a lot, especially when the subject matter is a bit more technical. When a plane crashes for example they almost always use a stock photo of any old type of plane. When a smaller plan crashed a while back they put up a photo of the A380! If a pilot for example was that slack with him work then he would get the sack and worse.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
It was always likely to happen witness the cruise liner sinking this week with loads of photo's from phones all over the papers,the problem for the papers will arise when they assume lots of Citizen photos from a major event and for whatever reason nothing turns up,then they will be totally screwed.

However this is just another example of human beings losing their jobs because of technology and has been happening since the Luddites first protested
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The cruise liner is a prime example of what I was referring to. There is no way in hell a news photographer would be able to get aboard the ship so the people directly caught up in it are in a prime positing to provide the photos needed for a good news piece. A few years ago this wouldn't have happened because none of them would have had a good enough camera to capture it on but now even basic phones have good enough cameras.

I agree on your second point. How many jobs over the years have disappeared because their service or no longer needed or people can do it themselves? Don't see many cart makers these days. :D I'm sure when their jobs were lost they were bitching about it as bad as photographers are these days. It just might be that photography (at least news togs) is a job that won't last.....
 
Originally Posted by jon ryan
A lot of poor journalism isn't down to poor journalists (and a lot is!). There is tremendous pressure on them these days. No only are there far fewer per title, but they are under pressure to get the stuff out fast - too fast for proper, considered writing and research.

Nick Davie's excellent Flat Earth News is a great read on the subject if you're interested in this stuff.
Click to expand...

EMA747 said:
Yeah I agree, there are good journalists as well as bad ones. Even if they are under pressure though surely getting basic facts right is important but seems to not happen quite a lot, especially when the subject matter is a bit more technical. When a plane crashes for example they almost always use a stock photo of any old type of plane. When a smaller plan crashed a while back they put up a photo of the A380! If a pilot for example was that slack with him work then he would get the sack and worse.
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The photo may well be put up by whoever takes a story off the wires, and possibly the first report may not have mentioned the make - and it could be impossible to tell at first what came down in a big crash site. But they should pick it up later.
 
Our local paper ran a half page spread last week telling people how to submit photos, it specifically mentioned photos from phones and an app that would let people load the photos direct from their phones, I thought that would be tought on the togs when I looked at it, I did'nt realize they were getting rid of them, tought time to be out of work!!

We get a local reporter / tog come our sports club about once a year and they do a story and photos, I wonder if they will be freelance now, will have to find out and keep in touch if it pays at least we can put a bit of work there way.
 
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Originally Posted by cambsno
I am talking about the local rags which tend to contain pics of a fire station, cat, road etc.
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Originally Posted by simonblue
But a lot of great news photographers,started their careers,on local rags
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DemiLion said:
Most of them in fact. It was how you earned your spurs.
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Bloody right! Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. Can you shoot a rugby match (in the rain), a disabled girl and her mum, a shotgun discharging, a bunch of drunken wassailers in a dark barn, and a glider? All in one day? And have them properly processed to meet a deadline? That's how I spent 13 hours last Saturday.
 
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It is probably time to stop thinking in terms of printed newspapers.
Their function will be served by a local up to the minute version of social media, complete with local advertising/business finder.

Most local paper photographs, whilst serving a function, are repetitious in the extreme. The days of fully illustrated articles is long gone. The difficulty now is for the remaining publishers to create a revenue stream.

They will only be able to do that if their content is sufficiently interesting and kept up to date.
 
simonblue said:
But a lot of great news photographers,started their careers,on local rags :)
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The dailies used to have large Photographic departments and a career structure.
even in the 80's they were a sad reminder of what had been.
Today most rely on freelances.
Whilst there are still opportunities in accredited News photography, staff press Photography is all but dead.
 
I just saw an archant journalist on twitter asking photographers to send their views on a Nikon camera.

Why not go the whole hog and ask them to write the article?
 
MARK AMIES said:
I just saw an archant journalist on twitter asking photographers to send their views on a Nikon camera.

Why not go the whole hog and ask them to write the article?
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I just saw that. There is such laziness in journalism at the moment, let alone just photography.

I also find it ironic that a magazine selling to "pro's" is being put out by a company who are getting rid of all their photographers.
 
Social networking/media is changing the way we consume (and perceive) "news". Often on these services, a story has broken, twisted & turned several times and died before you can say "stop the press!". There's no way the traditional media model can compete with the speed or quantity of reporting, or the diverse range of opinion that social media "reporting" offers.

I can see traditional news organisations struggling even more as this trend progresses.
 
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ding76uk said:
I just saw that. There is such laziness in journalism at the moment, let alone just photography.

I also find it ironic that a magazine selling to "pro's" is being put out by a company who are getting rid of all their photographers.
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Maybe get rid of some of the lazy journalist,that would save them some money :D
 
ding76uk said:
There is such laziness in journalism at the moment
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There was an article on the DM website recently which had all the prices in dollars and talked about "liter bottles", the whole thing obviously lifted from elsewhere and the hack couldn't even be bothered to anglicise it........
 
Hunters lost their jobs because of farming and people who used to work in factories lost their jobs to machines - it's what happens as technology progresses. It always has and it always will until it eventually reaches whatever the end game of development is, probably complete collapse.

It's unfortunate in the moment for the people losing their jobs but everyone soon forgets and it becomes normal that there aren't people doing that thing any more. I've never heard anyone say they wished their car was completely hand-built or that their food was caught rather than raised and no one will miss good press photography other than the people who took part in it. The people who consume it largely don't know what it is.

I'm sure there'll be a niche luxury market like there is for everything else but there won't be a ladder to climb to get there.
 
I do wonder really what publishers are on right now. They expect you to pay the cover value of a magazine which has shot up dramatically of late. The magazine is full of advertising , which you have to wade through. That advertising is very expensive to get if you are a manufacturer or seller, so you wonder why the consumer is then expected to pay a high price. The 'articles' have become increasingly dumbed down ,with very little real valuable content.

Then as well as running hard copy - which they fill the newstands with ( and a huge amount does not get sold - it goes back for pulping or recycling), they run an online magazine , which gets updated quicker ( why bother buying the magazine?), and run tweets through with stories ( which are free).

Amounts to a pretty mixed up business, which seems to be running around chasing it's tail.

And yes, putting an appeal out for views from photographers about a camera, when they have just laid of photographers seems a wee bit clumsy.
 
DazJW said:
Hunters lost their jobs because of farming and people who used to work in factories lost their jobs to machines - it's what happens as technology progresses. It always has and it always will until it eventually reaches whatever the end game of development is, probably complete collapse.

It's unfortunate in the moment for the people losing their jobs but everyone soon forgets and it becomes normal that there aren't people doing that thing any more. I've never heard anyone say they wished their car was completely hand-built or that their food was caught rather than raised and no one will miss good press photography other than the people who took part in it. The people who consume it largely don't know what it is.

I'm sure there'll be a niche luxury market like there is for everything else but there won't be a ladder to climb to get there.
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I agree to a point, but the quality of output suffers because of it. quality in journalism is hitting new depths.

We are in a generation where technology will have a negative impact, we are currently in the dark ages of new media. This generation will be looked at with disdain and with nothing of merit to come out of it, just a sea of grey mediocrity.
 
Its just the world we live in now, technology and its application in the world is advancing at such a rapid pace that businesses are struggling to keep up with the way the consumer is utilising this wave of social technology. No one could have predicted 10 years ago that the world would be the way it is now, and trying to predict what it will be like in just another couple of years is impossible.

Mass media and photography has been made available on a scale previously never thought possible, and it just so happens that an art that was once the realm of only the dedicated has become so mainstream its part of most peoples lives.

The key here is to find a way to shine above it all. Thats a hard one, but at the end of the day competition breeds creativity and those that are truly good will always find a way to get ahead of the curve.

So what if everyone has a camera, so what if everyone is taking photos and uploading them onto their shiny new "portfolio" website and flickr etc... they are still generally crap, with almost no thought or vision behind them and end up as just crap snapshots. They key to all photography, well art in general, is the visual narrative. The conneciton with the subject, the connection with the viewer, the excellence in delivery and many other factors all come together to create a piece of visual narrative or art piece or photograph.

This can never EVER be achieved through technology, so just trust in your ability and use EMBRACE this new technology as a method to be seen.

Yes we have never been in such a rich media world before, but also has it never been easier to reach a truly worldwide audience with your work.

If you dont see this world now as a way to carve your mark, you either have little confidence in your work, yourself or generally are unwilling to adapt.

Its always easier to take the easy path and complain about how crap it all is, its much harder to stand up and figure out a way to get ahead.

Competition has always been there in one form or another. The game hasn't changed, just the players in it.
 
MARK AMIES said:
I do wonder really what publishers are on right now.
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I don't think they know what to do, there must be plenty of people who were just coasting with the business being how it was but now they actually have to innovate to survive they're struggling to choose a path.
I can't see there being any future in magazines that aren't extremely high quality because the internet will spank them for everything else at much lower, if any, cost to the customer. I doubt that would be a popular view with publishers because it requires significant investment in capable staff at substantial risk. Easier to bleed the market dry while you can and let the next guy worry about it.
 
Something largely overlooked is the fragmentation of the consumers.

Its the same problem as TV has now.

Why do I want to buy a daily newspaper when all I care about is motorsport news? Why do I want to buy a motorsport publication because all I want is two wheeled news... why do I want to buy a motorbike racing magazine when all I want is superbike... British Superbike....

Oh hang on, we've now narrowed the potential market down to next to nothing...

The internet, as well as making things fast and "free" also allows me to spend my precious "leisure time" reading just my own custom content and not the bits I don't want.

Take TP, its better than a photography mag because I can interact with the people taking the photos I see, ask them how they did it.... and not have to just look at thermonuclear skied landscape shots or pictures of squirrels.... here I can choose to just talk about motorsport photography (for example).
 
The problem is that everyone thinks they are able to be artists and are being fed this by all camera sellers and a media desperate for free pics.

Art by it's nature is elitist, some people can do it, some can;t and as said the cream will always rise to the top. But. Amazing artists are slipping through the net much more as the dross drowns them out and starves them of the opportunity to be seen.


If you are into the whole new media and the impacts of it, watch this amazing doc on the subject.

http://vimeo.com/channels/presspauseplay
 
Basically , it's year zero, and people have to either try just that bit harder, or reinvent what they are doing. Just because the formats of things have changed doesn't mean it's some kind of dead end. A hole has opened and a load of guys and girls have moved in and filled the void ( I'm talking about publishing) - they can do this becuase they can be more dynamic, and not have to carry the weight and inflexible of the traditional forms.

I can recall that when digital came into photography as a mainstream thing , it caused enormous problems with traditional long standing photo agencies and libraries, most of which had been carying on with hard copy prints and transparencies. Suddenly everything turned upside down and new agencies like Alamy came in from seemingly nowhere. The old guys had to turn around quick, some went , some ar still there,but do not have the power they once held.
 
ding76uk said:
The problem is that everyone thinks they are able to be artists and are being fed this by all camera sellers and a media desperate for free pics.

Art by it's nature is elitist, some people can do it, some can;t and as said the cream will always rise to the top. But. Amazing artists are slipping through the net much more as the dross drowns them out and starves them of the opportunity to be seen.


If you are into the whole new media and the impacts of it, watch this amazing doc on the subject.

http://vimeo.com/channels/presspauseplay
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Bravo that man! :clap:
 
ding76uk said:
The problem is that everyone thinks they are able to be artists and are being fed this by all camera sellers and a media desperate for free pics.

Art by it's nature is elitist, some people can do it, some can;t and as said the cream will always rise to the top. But. Amazing artists are slipping through the net much more as the dross drowns them out and starves them of the opportunity to be seen.


If you are into the whole new media and the impacts of it, watch this amazing doc on the subject.

http://vimeo.com/channels/presspauseplay
Click to expand...

Good watch,are we going to lose great artist,in a sea of dross :shrug:
 
jamesoliverstone said:
Its just the world we live in now, technology and its application in the world is advancing at such a rapid pace that businesses are struggling to keep up with the way the consumer is utilising this wave of social technology. No one could have predicted 10 years ago that the world would be the way it is now, and trying to predict what it will be like in just another couple of years is impossible.

Mass media and photography has been made available on a scale previously never thought possible, and it just so happens that an art that was once the realm of only the dedicated has become so mainstream its part of most peoples lives.

The key here is to find a way to shine above it all. Thats a hard one, but at the end of the day competition breeds creativity and those that are truly good will always find a way to get ahead of the curve.

So what if everyone has a camera, so what if everyone is taking photos and uploading them onto their shiny new "portfolio" website and flickr etc... they are still generally crap, with almost no thought or vision behind them and end up as just crap snapshots. They key to all photography, well art in general, is the visual narrative. The conneciton with the subject, the connection with the viewer, the excellence in delivery and many other factors all come together to create a piece of visual narrative or art piece or photograph.

This can never EVER be achieved through technology, so just trust in your ability and use EMBRACE this new technology as a method to be seen.

Yes we have never been in such a rich media world before, but also has it never been easier to reach a truly worldwide audience with your work.

If you dont see this world now as a way to carve your mark, you either have little confidence in your work, yourself or generally are unwilling to adapt.

Its always easier to take the easy path and complain about how crap it all is, its much harder to stand up and figure out a way to get ahead.

Competition has always been there in one form or another. The game hasn't changed, just the players in it.
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Good post, spot on ;)
 
desantnik said:
Something largely overlooked is the fragmentation of the consumers.

Its the same problem as TV has now.

Why do I want to buy a daily newspaper when all I care about is motorsport news? Why do I want to buy a motorsport publication because all I want is two wheeled news... why do I want to buy a motorbike racing magazine when all I want is superbike... British Superbike....

Oh hang on, we've now narrowed the potential market down to next to nothing...

The internet, as well as making things fast and "free" also allows me to spend my precious "leisure time" reading just my own custom content and not the bits I don't want.

Take TP, its better than a photography mag because I can interact with the people taking the photos I see, ask them how they did it.... and not have to just look at thermonuclear skied landscape shots or pictures of squirrels.... here I can choose to just talk about motorsport photography (for example).
Click to expand...
I agree the internet has narrowed things down. As a consumer this is a very good thing. How many of you read most of a printed newspaper's content fully? I'm sure most people just read a few bits that interested them then throw the paper away. The internet news is free and it allows you to get straight to the bits you want to read.

Another problem for traditional news and even dedicated internet news sites is that now we have access to so much more information, if we know where to look we can get much better and much more accurate news that the news services themselves can provide. That the Costa ship thing as an example. I happen to have access to the merchant navy news site and know a few serving merchant navy captains. Once you have been to both of those sources for information and comments it's obvious the likes of the BBC are only really reporting rumours and general chit chat that they pick up rather than anything really factual and more important correct.
Same goes for aviation news. I know and have access to quite a bit of industry news that offers way more accurate and informed reporting on any related matters that you would ever get from the traditional news outlets.

Personally in say the case of the Costa Concordia I don't really care about the photographers they have covering it because I know what the ship looks like anyway and a few crappy mobile phone shots just to see what it was like to be involved in the incident are enough. I'm not saying they don't need good photos of it as I have seen some very interesting ones. But as a NEWS piece as opposed to a more REPORT type piece I don't think they are so necessary.

Oh and on following on from the original quote, I wish SKY would do me JUST the F1 channel. :thumbs:
 
The problem for conventional media, like newpapers and magazines, is the internet. Which is free.

The problem for the internet, is it's free. And you get what you pay for. The good stuff is hard to find, or hidden beneath a mountain of dross.

The web is the future for sure, but it needs a new and easy mechanism so we can pay for the good stuff that we want. Advertising doesn't work, subscriptions don't work, but we have the technology to allow us to just click on a page and have our 'web account' automatically debited 0.3p or something. It just needs someone to make it work.

It's a tiny amount of money, an absolute bargain, but those 0.3pees added up on national or global basis would transform the business opportunity for publishers. And us punters :)
 
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