Concepts Auto ISO or not AUTO ISO? That is the question for wildlife.

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russellsnr

russellsnr

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Hi, so a while ago after watching a video on AUTO ISO I fell into the trap of using it all the time (lazy or not?) along with exposure compensation in M mode after meeting another photographer while out and about I asked what setting they used and the answer some what surprised me " Manual mode for everything, never use AUTO ISO" so my question is "When or do you use AUTO ISO or are you full manual throughout"? "If full manual throughout what do you feel that the benefits are if any over AUTO ISO"?
Thanks, Russ.
 
I spent almost my whole photographic journey using aperture priority, but I have recently switched to auto ISO in manual mode.

Nowadays the high ISO performance of cameras and post processing software is so good there is little reason to be scared of bumping the ISO.

I've also come to appreciate that I care about shutter speed more than I used to think. If I want to stop down for greater DoF, I don't want my shutter speed to drop so far I'll be getting camera shake blur.

So now I set the 2 things that affect the image the most from a creative point of view: shutter speed and aperture and let the camera do what it has to with ISO.

Bear in mind this is my walking around hand holding setup. If I were on a tripod doing landscapes I'd probably be in aperture priority with manual ISO down at 100.

I don't see the point of full manual mode. Any of the semi auto modes with exposure comp will yield the same results faster imho.

Edit: I'm no wildlife shooter, but I'd almost certainly be using auto ISO if I were.
 
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If I’m shooting fairly static or slow moving wildlife subjects I use full manual, but the camera is only set this way once I have reached my destination (a hide or pre planned viewpoint). Generally, for the walk to my destination or if just on a general walk about, I will use auto ISO. A quick spin of the rear dial to increase shutter speed where needed if something flies away or if I spot a smaller twitchy subject make auto ISO a no brainier for me.
 
Av has always been my go-to shooting mode. I do use Manual though when I want exact control for say capturing a foreground & bracketed sky to blend, or panoramic shooting etc

Since getting the A7Riii a year ago & having more options (minimum shutter speed) than the A7, I have shot in Av/Auto ISO pretty much since then for handheld, walkabout style work. I'll switch to 100 or 640 ISO for tripod work - maybe 50 and mechanical shutter if I want a longer shutter speed.

As mentioned, todays sensors & software handle noise pretty well anyway so in my opinion (at least for personal work) I don't really care about ISO anymore.
 
I’ve used auto iso on manual for wildlife for many years. Modern cameras means I’m not that fussed whether it’s ISO400 or ISO1600, I’m more concerned about shutter speed and aperture.

A two stop difference in shutter speed for wildlife could mean the difference between a sharp or blurry photo due to subject movement. Aperture affects DoF therefore how much of the subject is in sharp focus.

Auto ISO let’s me balance everything because I can adjust shutter speed and aperture should iso get too high.

If you’re in changing light or in an area of dappled light having auto iso adjust the iso according the available light is quite helpful especially if the wildlife action is fast paced.
 
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russellsnr said:
Hi, so a while ago after watching a video on AUTO ISO I fell into the trap of using it all the time (lazy or not?) along with exposure compensation in M mode after meeting another photographer while out and about I asked what setting they used and the answer some what surprised me " Manual mode for everything, never use AUTO ISO" so my question is "When or do you use AUTO ISO or are you full manual throughout"? "If full manual throughout what do you feel that the benefits are if any over AUTO ISO"?
Thanks, Russ.
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It's probably worthwhile reading this thread from last summer. I can't really add much to what I wrote in there, and there were a reasonable number of replies. I use auto iSO all the time for wildlife except for very rare occasions. In contrast, I used a fixed ISO all the time for landscape, but again there have been, very rare, occasions when I've used auto ISO for landscape.

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Manual with auto ISO, who does this?

I have set my camera up to use manual settings for aperture and shutter speed while setting my ISO to automatic, as per the instructions on a couple of Youtube videos, as I fancy trying it out. I'm presuming it will be a question of getting used to it, similar to when I started to use back...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
 
If you are using the exposure indicated by the camera are you really gaining anything by going fully manual. Auto anything will give you the same result faster with out having to twiddle a dial.

I used to be Aperture priority landscape sort of person. I'm now embracing the new auto ISO tech (I know its been around for years) as I'm ( learning slowly ) trying local wildlife.
 
seaodyssey said:
If you are using the exposure indicated by the camera are you really gaining anything by going fully manual. Auto anything will give you the same result faster with out having to twiddle a dial.
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Exactly.

If need be I sometimes will take a spot meter of something and lock the exposure to that using two programmed buttons on the camera. But it's all still calculated by the camera.
 
I use aperture priority with auto iso and exposure comp. nearly all the time. It's very quick and easy to set a minimum shutter speed.

There are times when shutter speed is more important of course, but not very often for me.
 
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Aperture Priority for landscapes. I used to use Manual all the time.
Manual for wildlife.

I do set a limit on the ISO. Currently at 1600, but might raise it a little though.
 
Since I’ve had a camera with auto iso that works, the only time I fix the iso is when using flash, cos I don’t want the camera second guessing what I’m trying to achieve.
 
Auto iso with AV these days I tend to use my C modes on the OM1 base iso to 51200 in C1 for static birds and 1600 Iso to 51200 for b.i.f with a minimum SS of 1/2000 sec for b.i.f .quick spin of front dial does exp comp and wysiwyg deals with correct exp comp.
And yes the OM 1 can handle those high I.s.o values with relative ease and a touch of topaz DN
 
seaodyssey said:
If you are using the exposure indicated by the camera are you really gaining anything by going fully manual. Auto anything will give you the same result faster with out having to twiddle a dial.
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I never understood those who go on about full manual is the way to go if all they do is center the metering indicator suggested by the camera. Not exactly shooting full manual.
 
I've used auto ISO since I got it and only select an ISO manually when making a deliberate decision for a good reason.

Other than that. I use aperture priority with auto ISO until falling light brings the shutter speed down too low and then I switch to manual and dial in appropriate aperture and shutter speed settings and again I leave ISO to the camera unless there's a good reason not to.
 
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
 
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wiltw said:
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
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Then this is one instance in which you could make a deliberate decision to intervene and select another ISO. For many and maybe the majority of pictures and obviously depending on what you shoot auto ISO could well be a good choice and free you up to do more important things like frame the shot and decide when to press the button.
 
wiltw said:
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
Click to expand...

I've never noticed the Sony giving a higher ISO than needed tbh.
 
Thanks for all the input, watched the video myotis alluded to, one thing he mentions in the video is watching the ISO in the viewfinder but using bbf the only way to see ISO with Sony is to hold the shutter half down so it's another extra action. Thanks Russ.
 
Auto ISO is even better than sliced bread.
wiltw said:
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
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That's why I set shutter speed AND aperture manually with ISO on auto. :)

I've never understood the frequent recommendation to newbies to use Aperture Priority as it often results in too slow a shutter speed for hand-holding - which is how most people start out. In fact I've never understood the modern fixation with wide apertures and shallow DOF. Whatever happened to f8 and be there? :D
 
wiltw said:
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
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I'm not sure if it applies to all cameras, but in my cameras, I can see the chosen ISO in the viewfinder or on the top LCD, or in the rear screen.

As I adjust the shutter speed and aperture to the settings I want, I check what the camera is doing with the iso and decide if I'm happy with it, or if I need to rethink the exposure settings to bring the ISO down. So I still feel "in control" of auto ISO, the camera is just saving me the hassle of manually adjusting it.

On the occasions when I don't have time to assess the ISO and I know I'm going to need 1/2500 to catch a bird in flight, I know I have the flexibility to quickly rack the shutter speed up and just live with whatever ISO the camera decides.

I'd rather end up with a sharp, motion stopped, noisy image (if that is what happens ) than a blurry noiseless image.
 
Look up the relatioship between ISO and the histogram, especially the banding that occurs in the sky.
 
For shooting Birds in Flight i use Manual and manual iso i find it keeps the exposure more correct when the bird is dropping below the horizion of from below the horizion into the Sky
I have Tried auto iso but prefer Manual Iso.
 
wiltw said:
My bias against Auto ISO is the fact that the camera can choose an unnecessarily high ISO, which is prone to greater noise content in the resulting image, when it could have used a more reasonable ISO with lower shutter speed. Are recently introduced cameras any better at the logic of ISO + shutter speed selection?!
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If you know the shutter speed you want then use manual mode with auto ISO. The ISO isn't a creative tool so take control of the two creative elements and let the camera decide the rest. Shot to shot you might make different decisions on what shutter speed you want, so turn that one dial and shoot.
 
mav said:
For shooting Birds in Flight i use Manual and manual iso i find it keeps the exposure more correct when the bird is dropping below the horizion of from below the horizion into the Sky
I have Tried auto iso but prefer Manual Iso.
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This was one of the "rare occasions" I had in mind when I said I don't always use auto-iso for wildlife.
 
Ok. I'll try. We know the histogram is a graphical representation of the tonal distribution in an image - all well and good to see what you have taken. But lets look at the histogram before you take the shot.

Left of the histogram are two shades of grey, representing black. Move to the right will be 4 shades of grey, then 8, then 16, then 32, as you move further to the right until you have white.

These shades of grey double and halve as you go up and down the scale in much the same way as as ISO, aperture and shutter speed. In fact it follows the same binary numbering system that computers do. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 bit computer systems.

Now, if you set the ISO to a low number, in mediochre lighting, ie: 100, altering the rest of the the exposure triangle to get a good exposure in landscapes, then the liklihood will be banding in the sky and that representation can be seen in the histogram with the bias being toward the darker end if the histogram spectrum, even though the exposure is showing as good.

Assuming the camera has been set to show the exposure settings in thirds, the best ISO setting for landscapes and wildlife for colour redition is ISO 160, ISO320, ISO 640 and multiples thereof as the light diminishes.

This was explained to me by a zooologist and photographer while attending a photoshoot, and after experimenting myself, I have found that I produced much better colour renditioning in my photography. Don't take my word for it. try it for yourselves.
 
Ed Sutton said:
Auto ISO is even better than sliced bread.

That's why I set shutter speed AND aperture manually with ISO on auto. :)

I've never understood the frequent recommendation to newbies to use Aperture Priority as it often results in too slow a shutter speed for hand-holding - which is how most people start out. In fact I've never understood the modern fixation with wide apertures and shallow DOF. Whatever happened to f8 and be there? :D
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I wouldn't say "often" as it's dependant on a few things including light levels, subject and even possible camera movement and the focal length or magnification. For me aperture priority can lead to too low a shutter speed as the light levels fall and it's then that I switch to manual with auto ISO but on a day out it is possible that aperture priority may be the only mode I use and the only change I may need to make could be to the aperture whereas in manual mode as well as changing the aperture I may also have to chance the shutter speed too. This may not be a big deal to some but these semi auto modes are useful because they can free the photographer to concentrate on other things and potentially if needed shoot faster.
 
Fogey1 said:
Ok. I'll try. We know the histogram is a graphical representation of the tonal distribution in an image - all well and good to see what you have taken. But lets look at the histogram before you take the shot.

Left of the histogram are two shades of grey, representing black. Move to the right will be 4 shades of grey, then 8, then 16, then 32, as you move further to the right until you have white.

These shades of grey double and halve as you go up and down the scale in much the same way as as ISO, aperture and shutter speed. In fact it follows the same binary numbering system that computers do. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 bit computer systems.

Now, if you set the ISO to a low number, in mediochre lighting, ie: 100, altering the rest of the the exposure triangle to get a good exposure in landscapes, then the liklihood will be banding in the sky and that representation can be seen in the histogram with the bias being toward the darker end if the histogram spectrum, even though the exposure is showing as good.

Assuming the camera has been set to show the exposure settings in thirds, the best ISO setting for landscapes and wildlife for colour redition is ISO 160, ISO320, ISO 640 and multiples thereof as the light diminishes.

This was explained to me by a zooologist and photographer while attending a photoshoot, and after experimenting myself, I have found that I produced much better colour renditioning in my photography. Don't take my word for it. try it for yourselves.
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I did used to do this a long time ago with my 40D , mostly used ISO 320 it seemed to reduce noise but never actually did a proper comparison
haven’t used this method recently as far as I understand with modern sensors it’s not necessary
 
I haven’t tried auto ISO
at this time of year for zoo animals I just leave the ISO on 1600 unless it’s sunny
I decide on the aperture and try to get a shutter speed as high as possible in case something fast happens, at ISO 1600 quality is still decent
In the summer for macro I just leave the ISO at 400 I don’t think I would notice any difference in quality if the ISO was lower
R5
 
Ed Sutton said:
Auto ISO is even better than sliced bread.

That's why I set shutter speed AND aperture manually with ISO on auto. :)

I've never understood the frequent recommendation to newbies to use Aperture Priority as it often results in too slow a shutter speed for hand-holding - which is how most people start out. In fact I've never understood the modern fixation with wide apertures and shallow DOF. Whatever happened to f8 and be there? :D
Click to expand...

Auto ISO in Av with minimum shutter speed set for handheld shooting (y)

Perfect for general walkabout situations.

I guess you could also use the same for wildlife but instead of 1/100th you'd have 1/2000th or whatever.
 
For any action shots where there may not be enough time to start changing settings, then Auto-ISO is a great thing because it allows me to concentrate on shutter speed. A blurred image is pretty much lost, whereas a noisy image can be worked on to improve.

The exception for me is with landscapes and especially panos where it's full manual.
 
I was converted to manual with auto-iso for wildlife several years ago and over time I have found that it works for pretty much all the shooting I do, with the exception of landscape, which I don't do much of anyway. The shutter speed and aperture are way more important to me than ISO as I can deal with any noise in post processing.
 
russellsnr said:
Hi, so a while ago after watching a video on AUTO ISO I fell into the trap of using it all the time (lazy or not?) along with exposure compensation in M mode after meeting another photographer while out and about I asked what setting they used and the answer some what surprised me " Manual mode for everything, never use AUTO ISO" so my question is "When or do you use AUTO ISO or are you full manual throughout"? "If full manual throughout what do you feel that the benefits are if any over AUTO ISO"?
Thanks, Russ.
Click to expand...
Tried it once, didn't like it for birds, always full manual.
I do us Av in most other situations but never auto ISO.
 
I'm on the fence with auto ISO. I have tried it and get why those who swear by it do but... I just never feel at ease. I end up going either side of it to either full manual or fixed ISO and Aperture/Shutter priority. And I'm not convinced my photos are worse for sticking with what I find most familiar. Bu I'll keep an open mind and try it again some time or have one of my custom banks set up with Auto ISO and flick to it now and then.
 
As was said earlier... if you are following the exposure meter it doesn't much matter.

For at least the last decade I have been able to set my Nikons to operate in aperture priority with auto ISO so that it operates the same as I would, only much faster.

If you set the minimum desired shutter speed (situational), and the max allowed ISO (noise tolerance), the camera will then use the lowest ISO allowed as long as it results in the minimum set SS. If the light is brighter it will use a higher SS/min ISO; and if the light is lower it will use a higher ISO/min SS. And once the ISO reaches the max limit set, it will start compromising the SS... the exact same choices I would make. And I can always open the aperture to give it more room assuming I'm not already wide open.

But recently I've been using a lens always at it's max aperture (Z180-600 @ 6.3), so I've started using shutter priority instead... it acts basically the same except that it drives the aperture to max before increasing the ISO. Manual with Auto ISO would be similar, except deviating from the metered exposure is a bit more involved.

In either case I have Easy EC set to the other dial for when I don't want to follow the meter. And I use highlight weighted metering almost exclusively. IMO, when the metering does get the scene wrong it errors in the correct direction. I.e. it underexposes to protect highlights/whites; and it overexposes to bring out/record details in darks/shadows... not great for direct wire jpegs; but fine for raw files, especially with cameras that are (nearly) ISO invariant.

About the only time I don't use auto ISO is when I am in control of the lighting.
 
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Typhoon7 said:
I'm on the fence with auto ISO. I have tried it and get why those who swear by it do but... I just never feel at ease. I end up going either side of it to either full manual or fixed ISO and Aperture/Shutter priority. And I'm not convinced my photos are worse for sticking with what I find most familiar. Bu I'll keep an open mind and try it again some time or have one of my custom banks set up with Auto ISO and flick to it now and then.
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I find some of these arguments a bit bonkers. People talk about overriding auto settings as if an EV isn’t a fixed thing.
In any given situation (presuming the meter has correctly measured the light)
If I shoot M with auto ISO and choose f8 and 1/250, and the camera picks 1600
Or I choose AV and f8 with a min SS of 1/250

Or I pick TV a shutter speed of 1/250 and safety shift the aperture to f8 (I’ll get 1600)

Or I go full M and the settings are 1/250, f8 and 1600

It’s exactly the same bloody image.

If the meter is wrong, it’s still wrong whether AV, TV, or M, and whether the ISO was set by me or the camera.

The exposure triangle is 3 variables that equate to an EV. Whether one or all of them are auto or manually selected is a choice of working method, makes no difference to the result

Edit - clearly cross posted with the above.
 
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