Banding on LR4 vignettes in print

D

DDP

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David
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Recently I've upgraded 2 of my machines to LR4 and since then I'm getting serious banding on prints from the post-crop vignette, and other gradients in the images. I've not had problems in the past using LR3.

I've had about 5,000 images go through my (new) studio in the last month and this is proving to be a disaster. None of my vignettes are particularly heavy, and even the soft ones are causing me no end of problems.

Loxley keep ringing me up to tell me there's visible banding and their suggestion is to open in PS and Add Noise at 1.5 level.

Does anyone else get this? What's the quickest/easiest way round it?

Thanks :)
 
Are you originating from a RAW image or JPEG?

When you output is it from the Develop Module or a JPEG from the print. If from the latter what file size are you sending Loxley for what size print and what compression level are you using?
 
LR4 is quite a buggy release. Since the initial release there have been two Release candidates and the second of those appears to cause new issues. I have stuck with LR3 and refuse to upgrade at present until they sort it.

It's a growing trend to release buggy software and rely on the users to complain as a way to find issues.
 
Chappers said:
Are you originating from a RAW image or JPEG?

When you output is it from the Develop Module or a JPEG from the print. If from the latter what file size are you sending Loxley for what size print and what compression level are you using?
Click to expand...

Hi Chappers, excuse the slow reply :)

Originals are RAW, into LR3 or 4 depending on the machine (have since realised it's not limited to LR4) then export as FULL SIZE jpeg (just because it's easier/quicker as sometimes I order multiple sizes of the same image. I have little/no understanding of colour space, and the camera is set to sRGB though I understand that it's irrelevant in RAW mode.

This problem is NOT confined to post-crop vignettes after all I have noticed having removed the vignettes on some reprints. It does happen to the vignettes but also to the studio background (white cove) and it seems to be just a problem with any type of gradient.

I've just arranged for two other labs to run some test prints, one of which has a full size jpeg, the other exported at the actual print size.

So, my latest thoughts are:
1) I should export the jpegs to the actual print size.
2) I could try exporting as a TIFF
3) I could export as ProPhoto colour space?

Any thoughts VERY welcome :)

Cheers
 
Banding on gradients is due to the sampling depth. One bit sampling would give two levels, black or white. You would have no gradient, everything above 50% luminance would be white, anything below would be black. Two bit sampling would result in four separate levels (0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75% and 75-100%), and so on, the number of separate levels than can be reproduced being 2^n, where 'n' is the number of bits used to represent each sample.

Without seeing your jpegs, it sounds as if they are more highly compressed. Gradients are the most critical thing you can save as a jpeg, and the highest quality, lowest compression setting is a must to avoid banding. Better still, as the originals are raw, save them as a TIFF for printing.
 
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Ok, just picked up a test print from a local (proper) lab of an image that looked awful from Loxley. The only difference in terms of what I supplied is that I sent full size jpeg to Loxley and a 7.5x5 jpeg to the local lab. Both printed as 7x5s and the local lab print is SPOT ON!!

Don't know why, the local didn't either, but as long as the 80 or so images I give them tomorrow morning come back looking as good as the test print I will be a very happy man.

Will report back when I collect the big order.
 
DDP said:
Hi Chappers, excuse the slow reply :)

Originals are RAW, into LR3 or 4 depending on the machine (have since realised it's not limited to LR4) then export as FULL SIZE jpeg (just because it's easier/quicker as sometimes I order multiple sizes of the same image. I have little/no understanding of colour space, and the camera is set to sRGB though I understand that it's irrelevant in RAW mode.

This problem is NOT confined to post-crop vignettes after all I have noticed having removed the vignettes on some reprints. It does happen to the vignettes but also to the studio background (white cove) and it seems to be just a problem with any type of gradient.

I've just arranged for two other labs to run some test prints, one of which has a full size jpeg, the other exported at the actual print size.

So, my latest thoughts are:
1) I should export the jpegs to the actual print size.
2) I could try exporting as a TIFF
3) I could export as ProPhoto colour space?

Any thoughts VERY welcome :)

Cheers
Click to expand...

1 - Yes (don't forget to sharpen for print at export stage)
2 - Yes (if the lab accept it)
3 - No (ask the lab what they want to to supply the file as)
 
Glad you found a printer that can give you the results you want.

I wonder if the problem relates to file size. You don't say what camera you have but if you are sending significantly large files the printer software may have interpolation problems in re rendering the image suitable for 5 x 7, especially if the file size is effectively for a 20 x 24. in my experience interpolation software usually works better in sizing up than sizing down

You might want to send Loxley a print sized for 5 x 7 and see i this still bands. Or you could just stick with your local lab
 
I've had a similar problem with loxley recently - Its been confined to one image so far but both the original print and the reprint. I have re edited the file with less of a gradient and hopefully this will fix the issue. Confidence in loxley rattled a little though. (not their customer service though - they phoned and were spot on)
 
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