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And could quite easily end up with the op getting a good kicking or worse! Just what exactly? do you think the police will do? ...
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And could quite easily end up with the op getting a good kicking or worse! Just what exactly? do you think the police will do? ...
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like you say probably nothing but log it, which will give the OP a "get out of jail free" card if it all goes tits up..
KIPAX
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Ta! Where were you and why aren't you still there. I am
I was 14 in 69.. a skinhead pre docs... eventualy went the bootboy, suedhead, smoothie route.. Now its doc shoes instead of boots..
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I was 14 in 69.. a skinhead pre docs... eventualy went the bootboy, suedhead, smoothie route.. Now its doc shoes instead of boots..
Ah, yer a fair bit older than me but not too much
. I'm still full on although the jeans are no longer half way up my legs
. Right now I'm wearing 10 hole oxblood docs, blue WP benny, Wrangler jeans with sewn in half inch turnups and a Trojan Records belt. Keep the Faith.Cheers Brash!
Hijacked the thread a wee bit:shrug:
OP
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i was just to impulsive last night and i wanted to do something to avoid a potential problem for everyone. I couldnt stand the fact of someone being able to steal something so expensive and get away with it. prevention is always better than cure. so if the lens rental companies wont give him a lens he wont be stealing it and the rental company wont lose their goods and no one goes to jail and it all ends without any problems. THAT was my original idea but then it got complicated down the road and people told me i will get ****** in this so now i have no option but to confront him and tell him that i have reported the matter to the authorities and given them the details.
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If he simply owes the phone company money for not paying bills then it is not a scam and it is a civil case.
However, if there is more to this and he is defrauding the phone company in some way then it is a scam and would therefore be a criminal case under the classification of fraud.
Your housemate is probably committing an offence under the classification of "intent to commit fraud" (or theft) and although in this case it would be very difficult for the police to prove, they could use you as a key witness in order to prosecute.
Personally, I don't think you've come on here to warn people but I feel there is an underlying motive somewhere. Perhaps you are trying to see what the reactions are from people so you can fine tune a plan, maybe you run your own rental business and are trying to snatch other people's sales or maybe you just like creating some drama?
Without any specific information such as a description of this guy or specifically what rental stores he intends to go to then it's being more disruptive than helpful in my opinion.
Sorry, but there it is.
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Ooh, this is interesting.
Thanks to the guys who sent me PMs alerting me to this thread.
And thanks to shutterspd for raising the issue in the first place.
I don't want to get bogged down into discussions regarding what would be the "correct" thing to do, or what it means to call somebody like this a "friend". Suffice to say that I'm grateful for a tip-off. We're always alert to the threat of fraud, but we'll be a bit more alert now.
Incidentally, shutterspd, if you feel able to send me any more information privately - either by PM, or by email - then I'd be grateful. Even partial info would help. Thanks.
Thanks to the guys who sent me PMs alerting me to this thread.
And thanks to shutterspd for raising the issue in the first place.
I don't want to get bogged down into discussions regarding what would be the "correct" thing to do, or what it means to call somebody like this a "friend". Suffice to say that I'm grateful for a tip-off. We're always alert to the threat of fraud, but we'll be a bit more alert now.
Incidentally, shutterspd, if you feel able to send me any more information privately - either by PM, or by email - then I'd be grateful. Even partial info would help. Thanks.
Stewart, I completely understand if you wouldn't want to discuss this in a public forum, but i'm interested in how you'd deal with exactly the situation being described.
Are you authorised to charge the customer the full cost of the lens by virtue of them agreeing to hire from you, if they don't return it?
I'm just curious, and as I said, it's understandable if you don't want to disclose that sort of info!
karmagarda
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I've never seen a thread with so many presumptions before. Guilty until yer proven innocent eh! Shame on a lot of you I say!
What I'm getting from the story is that his "mate" and his family are in some kind of trouble financially or something, his priorities are family > breaking the law. Is this right? Of course not. But for god sake will ye at least try to understand the situation rather than jumping on the moral high ground. What happened to the days that we all could sort these bloody things out without having to run to the coppers at every little issue we're face with.
Shuttrspd: You basically gotta talk the guy out of it. Be straight with him. Tell him that if he does it you're going to be forced into dobbing him in. You let him know that he's putting you in a very bad situation and if he's any friend at all to you that he won't go through with it. If he still decides to go ahead, and you're aware he is, then you go to the police.
End of. And if it all goes to plan there's no wasting anyone elses time, especially the police.
Now, do that and maybe your conscience will be clear
What I'm getting from the story is that his "mate" and his family are in some kind of trouble financially or something, his priorities are family > breaking the law. Is this right? Of course not. But for god sake will ye at least try to understand the situation rather than jumping on the moral high ground. What happened to the days that we all could sort these bloody things out without having to run to the coppers at every little issue we're face with.
Shuttrspd: You basically gotta talk the guy out of it. Be straight with him. Tell him that if he does it you're going to be forced into dobbing him in. You let him know that he's putting you in a very bad situation and if he's any friend at all to you that he won't go through with it. If he still decides to go ahead, and you're aware he is, then you go to the police.
End of. And if it all goes to plan there's no wasting anyone elses time, especially the police.
Now, do that and maybe your conscience will be clear
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Not saying. Sorry. I don't discuss our security and anti-fraud procedures in public.
Is it the case that talkphotography now know of a potential attempted theft and can they report the op to the police tracking them with their ip address if he is a "flatmate" then they should nab him before this happens and charge him with conspiracy :shrug:
Dave
Dave
Ooooh you're right...rather stupidly I've never looked at the T&Cs when they're in the box from Stewart...i'm usually too excited to go and play with the lens! :nuts:
OP
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Is it the case that talkphotography now know of a potential attempted theft and can they report the op to the police tracking them with their ip address if he is a "flatmate" then they should nab him before this happens and charge him with conspiracy :shrug:
Dave
Ok. lets assume that they track the ip and get here. what next? what will they charge anyone on? "potential attempted theft", what does that mean? and conspiracy, against whom or what?
So first the forum complains against a crime that has not yet been committed and they are in noway related to.then the cops issue a warrant to my ISP and then some sort of subpoena to the ISP to produce that IP user's records. then the cops will come and ask my flatmate, "were you planning to steal a lens?" he will say no. then they will ask me why i posted this, i will say i had a hunch but it proved to be wrong.
seriously, all im trying to do is to spread the word and some of you guys have no limits when it comes to speculating. Even though it doesnt matter to me here but i am beginning to feel insulted now.
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agreed, very gullible of the OP. People like this don't have mates they have people they use as tools.
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LMAO @ this thread! 
Harbouring a criminal? err, not exactly, it's his flatmate...
Implicated in the crime because he 'knows about it'? - I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt that, tbh. If I tell you I am going to kill my wife, and then I kill my wife, does that make you an accessory to murder? (I'm not planning to kill my wife btw, it's just an example...)
If (and its a pretty big if) the OP were ever to be asked why he didn't report this to the Police, he could quite feasibly say 'listen, it was a late night drunken conversation, I didn't think he was actually serious about it...' and assuming the OP has no proceeds of the crime, I find it highly unlikely he'd get prosecuted for anything. To suggest he would be is a tad dramatic IMO.
Fair play to the OP for trying to alert those who could be affected.
Harbouring a criminal? err, not exactly, it's his flatmate...
Implicated in the crime because he 'knows about it'? - I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt that, tbh. If I tell you I am going to kill my wife, and then I kill my wife, does that make you an accessory to murder? (I'm not planning to kill my wife btw, it's just an example...
)If (and its a pretty big if) the OP were ever to be asked why he didn't report this to the Police, he could quite feasibly say 'listen, it was a late night drunken conversation, I didn't think he was actually serious about it...' and assuming the OP has no proceeds of the crime, I find it highly unlikely he'd get prosecuted for anything. To suggest he would be is a tad dramatic IMO.
Fair play to the OP for trying to alert those who could be affected.
OP
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LMAO @ this thread!
Harbouring a criminal? err, not exactly, it's his flatmate...
Implicated in the crime because he 'knows about it'? - I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt that, tbh. If I tell you I am going to kill my wife, and then I kill my wife, does that make you an accessory to murder? (I'm not planning to kill my wife btw, it's just an example...
If (and its a pretty big if) the OP were ever to be asked why he didn't report this to the Police, he could quite feasibly say 'listen, it was a late night drunken conversation, I didn't think he was actually serious about it...' and assuming the OP has no proceeds of the crime, I find it highly unlikely he'd get prosecuted for anything. To suggest he would be is a tad dramatic IMO.
Fair play to the OP for trying to alert those who could be affected.
Thank you for understand the situation as it is and not passing judgements.
yes, i will definately talk to my flat-"mate" and let you all know how it went. i already had a word with my other flatmate and he too will be there. looks like its going to be pretty dramatic. three guys having a beer and talking about morals and values. im sure i can talk some desperate guy out of stealing. not like he is a professional thief but not all of us have a smooth sail and its got a lot to do from where you are and how you have been brought up and what according to you is right or wrong, or how desperate you are.
BTW, no one welcomed me to this forum.
karmagarda
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good on ya mate! And how rude of me!!!! WELCOME TO TP!!! (and I actually do mean it )
Yes.Implicated in the crime because he 'knows about it'? - I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt that, tbh. If I tell you I am going to kill my wife, and then I kill my wife, does that make you an accessory to murder? (I'm not planning to kill my wife btw, it's just an example...
(and if you are the Wobbler I think you might be, ask gedge
)
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Yes.
(and if you are the Wobbler I think you might be, ask gedge
LOL! I am indeed!
ahem...you could always ask gedge yourself...
(good to see you here, btw...you know you're missed by quite a few at the other place...)
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with that pathetic attitude, you sir deserve to be robbed. Would you mind coming over to mine and telling my neighbour to turn his music down, in a mildly threatening manner of course.
How many livlihood's has this scumbag affected already? We have the get the message across that the UK public are not ripe for the picking just because someone is starving in another country. Crime is not the answer.
Grow some 8alls and do the right thing.
CT
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There's nothing to report to the police at this stage - the guy will simply say it was just fanciful talk over a pint, and who hasn't 'planned' some sort of perfect crime over a pint? The police wont be interested until there's a crime or an attempted one.
Conspiracy requires at least two people to conspire - both of them complicit in the proposed offence.
What your friend is planning is arguably both Theft and Criminal Deception, although he'd only be charged with one or the other, but it's pretty academic which, as both offences carry 10 years impt maximum, and both are arrestable offences.
It's simple enough - if it was me in your postion, I'd tell him that if he actually commits this offence I'll inform the police straight away.
Some friend btw!
Conspiracy requires at least two people to conspire - both of them complicit in the proposed offence.
What your friend is planning is arguably both Theft and Criminal Deception, although he'd only be charged with one or the other, but it's pretty academic which, as both offences carry 10 years impt maximum, and both are arrestable offences.
It's simple enough - if it was me in your postion, I'd tell him that if he actually commits this offence I'll inform the police straight away.
Some friend btw!
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Just to throw in a police perspective here, after someone helpfully PM'd me...
At this stage, you have someone who is planning a crime. It does not yet amount to Conspiracy (as already said, it needs more than one person) and isn't an Attempt - which would require an act "more than merely preparatory". At best, this person is in the preparatory stage of an offence - namely Obtaining Services by Deception (s11 Fraud Act 2006), in respect of hiring goods with no intention to pay for them, and / or Theft, in respect of selling them on at a later time. It's not that the police have no interest - clearly, we would - it's that at this stage no crime has been committed.
The phone scam is a different matter. I have no idea what went on there, but clearly the OP knows about it. That, in itself, is not an offence (nor is failing to report such matters) - but to offer any assistance or materially benefit from the crime would make it a different matter.
As both a photographer and police officer, my feelings towards the "suspect" can pretty much be guessed. I take a dim view of the matter. Just be aware that a scammer will probably leave a trail, and that trail will lead back to you; you may end up leaving yourself wide open to being arrested Handling Stolen Goods, which, with your prior knowledge of what was happening (as evidenced by this thread) could lead to a Conspiracy matter if you don't take any action.
I leave it at that.
At this stage, you have someone who is planning a crime. It does not yet amount to Conspiracy (as already said, it needs more than one person) and isn't an Attempt - which would require an act "more than merely preparatory". At best, this person is in the preparatory stage of an offence - namely Obtaining Services by Deception (s11 Fraud Act 2006), in respect of hiring goods with no intention to pay for them, and / or Theft, in respect of selling them on at a later time. It's not that the police have no interest - clearly, we would - it's that at this stage no crime has been committed.
The phone scam is a different matter. I have no idea what went on there, but clearly the OP knows about it. That, in itself, is not an offence (nor is failing to report such matters) - but to offer any assistance or materially benefit from the crime would make it a different matter.
As both a photographer and police officer, my feelings towards the "suspect" can pretty much be guessed. I take a dim view of the matter. Just be aware that a scammer will probably leave a trail, and that trail will lead back to you; you may end up leaving yourself wide open to being arrested Handling Stolen Goods, which, with your prior knowledge of what was happening (as evidenced by this thread) could lead to a Conspiracy matter if you don't take any action.
I leave it at that.
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Well, I had a word with him and we spoke about this briefly.
First, it was awkward to break this to him that I actually put this up on a forum and told you all about his motives. He said he was just kidding and he had never seriously considered stealing photographic equipment. He read about some very expensive video equipment being stolen in London and thats where he got the idea from. Apparently, he knew that he would have to pay a huge deposit and the rental company would keep it if the lens wasnt returned. How could you all miss that?
Second, I told him that even if he did manage to steal a lens he wouldnt manage to go very far with it as he wouldnt be able to sell it on eBay or else he would he will be caught way too easily.
Third and most important, I showed him all the posts that came up here and he went through it and by the looks of it, he is **** scared that he even brought this up, especially after reading the posts from CT and Photo Plod. I told him that I will have nothing to do with him if I ever come to know of him ordering any hired equipment (he isnt into photography at all) and will report this matter to the cops if I ever see any suspicious package with his name on it (Im the last one to leave home at around 11 and first one to get back around 4 so I receive almost 99% of the mail).
I told him why I did this and I made it very clear to him about the implications of doing such a thing. I told him I will not hesitate to go to the cops at even the remotest sign of some scam and made it very clear that I will be prosecuted instead of him if I dont do so. I have also taken down his university, workplace, and passport details from him as a safety. I told him that even if he leaves, the cops will withhold his degree and he wont ever get it, thats what he is here for in the first place, a degree (without it he would have paid over 10000 pounds and got nothing and would ave wasted a year).
I am thinking of speaking to my landlady tomorrow, or should I? Also, since I am pretty convinced that it was just a passing thought in his mind rather than a full fledged plan, should I take this matter to the cops or bury it here. He is scared s***less anyway.
It was a big mistake and Im sorry to have mentioned this matter here. Pretty immature of me but my intention was to warn. I did it impulsively. I know a few of you might have thought Im planning to do this myself but trust me I wasnt.
Thanks for all the heads up fellows. Looks like im gonna need a new user id around here now.
First, it was awkward to break this to him that I actually put this up on a forum and told you all about his motives. He said he was just kidding and he had never seriously considered stealing photographic equipment. He read about some very expensive video equipment being stolen in London and thats where he got the idea from. Apparently, he knew that he would have to pay a huge deposit and the rental company would keep it if the lens wasnt returned. How could you all miss that?
Second, I told him that even if he did manage to steal a lens he wouldnt manage to go very far with it as he wouldnt be able to sell it on eBay or else he would he will be caught way too easily.
Third and most important, I showed him all the posts that came up here and he went through it and by the looks of it, he is **** scared that he even brought this up, especially after reading the posts from CT and Photo Plod. I told him that I will have nothing to do with him if I ever come to know of him ordering any hired equipment (he isnt into photography at all) and will report this matter to the cops if I ever see any suspicious package with his name on it (Im the last one to leave home at around 11 and first one to get back around 4 so I receive almost 99% of the mail).
I told him why I did this and I made it very clear to him about the implications of doing such a thing. I told him I will not hesitate to go to the cops at even the remotest sign of some scam and made it very clear that I will be prosecuted instead of him if I dont do so. I have also taken down his university, workplace, and passport details from him as a safety. I told him that even if he leaves, the cops will withhold his degree and he wont ever get it, thats what he is here for in the first place, a degree (without it he would have paid over 10000 pounds and got nothing and would ave wasted a year).
I am thinking of speaking to my landlady tomorrow, or should I? Also, since I am pretty convinced that it was just a passing thought in his mind rather than a full fledged plan, should I take this matter to the cops or bury it here. He is scared s***less anyway.
It was a big mistake and Im sorry to have mentioned this matter here. Pretty immature of me but my intention was to warn. I did it impulsively. I know a few of you might have thought Im planning to do this myself but trust me I wasnt.
Thanks for all the heads up fellows. Looks like im gonna need a new user id around here now.
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some starving homeless down on his luck chap he is then..
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I cannot stand people who think it’s ok to rip others off rather than working hard.
There is something fishy about this whole thread and a strange one as the OP's first post too.
I read this before anyone replied and my views haven't changed.
Thought it was a scam post and I still believe it is something to test the waters of how such a scam could prevail.
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Standing here on this bridge smelling goats and...something else below
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That would be very racist
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Its all over now. it was a stupid misunderstanding and now its become a pain in the rear. lets all get back to work and forget about this. its very awkward for me anyway now. its become kinda like a hero to zero situation for me.
and for the last time. i was not testing the water, scheming, making grand plans etc etc.
now can we please let this be and it will be great if someone could kindly close this thread.
and for the last time. i was not testing the water, scheming, making grand plans etc etc.
now can we please let this be and it will be great if someone could kindly close this thread.
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