Beginner 4x5 kit

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Nebular89

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Can anyone point me in the direction of a good starter 4x5 kit for as cheap as possible? I’ve been considering trying direct positive prints and while looking on eBay I’ve seen a MPP Micro Technical Mk with a 135mm Wray Lustrar lens for £200 that has really tempted me! I don’t really need to spend more so I’m half looking for someone to talk me out of it lol.
I have some old developing stuff, I’m used to developing film and I have tray developed direct positive before so I wouldn’t need anything to develop the 4x5, just the film and a holder
 
Nebular89 said:
so I’m half looking for someone to talk me out of it lol.
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Oh boy... I think you're in the wrong forum for that... I'm wondering when @RaglanSurf will appear to start tempting you with something he's found in his loft. :exit:

Sadly, I can't offer anything more constructive, other than "we don't really do talking people out of film stuff here"
 
Thats a good price with a lens, and you can take it around, if you dont get it the cheapest option would probably be a monorail camera which are a pain to carry far in the field but its doable with a schnieder convertible lens

realcamera.co.uk

Sinar F 5×4 Monorail Camera, with Schneider Kreuznach 150mm f/4.5 Lens, Compur Shutter

Available at Real Camera Liverpool
realcamera.co.uk realcamera.co.uk

You are in the ballpark of the cheapest you can get, be careful though as cheap in LF can be incredibly frustrating, if you wait a bit and spend not much more, £400 tops you have a one lens system thatll last as long as you want it to and shooting will be a pleasure ( more of a pleaure) not a chore
 
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Harlequin565 said:
Oh boy... I think you're in the wrong forum for that... I'm wondering when @RaglanSurf will appear to start tempting you with something he's found in his loft. :exit:

Sadly, I can't offer anything more constructive, other than "we don't really do talking people out of film stuff here"
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I did think that lol. Part of me was hoping for “you need to spend at least £500” lol.
 
acrobatic_Citron said:
Thats a good price with a lens, and you can take it around, if you dont get it the cheapest option would probably be a monorail camera which are a paint to carry far in the field but its doable with a schnieder convertible lens

realcamera.co.uk

Sinar F 5×4 Monorail Camera, with Schneider Kreuznach 150mm f/4.5 Lens, Compur Shutter

Available at Real Camera Liverpool
realcamera.co.uk realcamera.co.uk

You are in the ballpark of the cheapest you can get, be careful though as cheap in LF can be incredibly frustrating, if you wait a bit and spend not much more, £400 tops you have a one lens system thatll last as long as you want it to and shooting will be a pleasure ( more of a pleaure) not a chore
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Yea it was the lens being included that caught my eye. It’s not a private seller, a camera shop so the description should be accurate. The covering looks tatty but from what they’ve said it all works good.

I have tried a friends one once when he had one. For me it wouldn’t be an all the time thing, I tend to prefer the run and gun approach until I see something that’s worth taking my time over. I’d want it to be as cheap as possible for that reason.
In what way is it frustrating? I know the camera on eBay isn’t going to be light like a field camera but if I’m right can’t you reverse mount the lens and keep in the camera folded up? Would be fairly easy to carry around
 
Nebular89 said:
In what way is it frustrating?
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The MPP bellows and extention will only go so far, it was design for press so if you decide you want longer or even shorter lens its likely they wont be compatible

With cheaper field cameras e.g intrepid, I love what they are going but if the swing, tilt shift is not precise, locks properly etc its adds to all the other things that can go wrong with LF. If you feel you will stick to one camera one lens , then the MPP would be the way to go

Yeah folding with a lens is a BIG plus, ive thought of getting one of these for something a bit different for friend and family weddings

I say even more of a pleasure as even with my Chamonix the swing tilt controls are still one so I have to work harder if I need to adjust both, for the F2 they are independant of each other and the cost goes up

If you want to go even cheaper I'd look at a super cheap lens and some of the 3d printed designs you may be able to get printed somewhere for less
 
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acrobatic_Citron said:
The MPP bellows and extention will only go so far, it was design for press so if you decide you want longer or even shorter lens its likely they wont be compatible

With cheaper field cameras e.g intrepid, I love what they are going but if the swing, tilt shift is not precise, locks properly etc its adds to all the other things that can go wrong with LF. If you feel you will stick to one camera one lens , then the MPP would be the way to go

Yeah folding with a lens is a BIG plus, ive thought of getting one of these for something a bit different for friend and family weddings

I say even more of a pleasure as even with my Chamonix the swing tilt controls are still one so I have to work harder if I need to adjust both, for the F2 they are independant of each other and the cost goes up

If you want to go even cheaper I'd look at a super cheap lens and some of the 3d printed designs you may be able to get printed somewhere for less
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I see. It would be one lens I think. I like 35mm-50mm for landscapes in full frame usually. I don’t go really wide or tight.

I feel like I’m talking myself into it rather than out of it!
Is £200 good enough of a price that I should shift it without losing much if anything if it’s not for me?
 
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The LF market is a strange beast, at a minimum you could move it along for at least £100 depending on condition of lens, i couldnt estimate more than that, as the MPP is desirable e.g the price already with a lens and its a very slow market, if you are in no rush to sell you could probably get most of the money you paid
 
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That’s the condition, tatty but works
acrobatic_Citron said:
The LF market is a strange beast, at a minimum you could move it along for at least £100 depending on condition of lens, i couldnt estimate more than that, as the MPP is desirable e.g the price already with a lens and its a very slow market, if you are in no rush to sell you could probably get most of the money you paid
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ill have to have a think. I have got some gear I’ve been thinking about selling
 
acrobatic_Citron said:
The LF market is a strange beast, at a minimum you could move it along for at least £100 depending on condition of lens, i couldnt estimate more than that, as the MPP is desirable e.g the price already with a lens and its a very slow market, if you are in no rush to sell you could probably get most of the money you paid
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Think over decided. I’ll speak to the other half, if I’m allowed lol I’ll buy it and stick some stuff on eBay, if I can’t get the funds I’ll return it within the 14 days
 
Where do you live? I've a monorail gathering dust in my cupboard and a spare lens and holders, pay for postage and you can try it out. Its a cambo sc2 heavy and large
 
acrobatic_Citron said:
Where do you live? I've a monorail gathering dust in my cupboard and a spare lens and holders, pay for postage and you can try it out. Its a cambo sc2 heavy and large
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Essex. I might actually take you up on that if it’s feasible. I’ve seen the cambo cameras, I imagine if I can get along with one of those and enjoy it then it would be worth looking at something like the MPP
 
No worries, dm me and we can discuss, I live in London so could even meet half way and save yourself pnp and itd save me packing it up securely haha
 
You wouldn't go far wrong with a MPP mk vi or vii as a starter camera, they have quite a focal range ability, from about 75mm through to about 400mm (at infinity). It's what I started with before I switched to a lighter field camera for portability.
 
Don't forget you also need double dark slides, film, dark bag, dark cloth (black T-shirt will do at a pinch), loupe, a good tripod and a largish camera bag (probably have the latter two). A tray dev setup should do fine, if you're used to it (no safe light!), but you'll need a way to scan (or print) the film. It does seem to add up!
 
ChrisR said:
Don't forget you also need double dark slides, film, dark bag, dark cloth (black T-shirt will do at a pinch), loupe, a good tripod and a largish camera bag (probably have the latter two). A tray dev setup should do fine, if you're used to it (no safe light!), but you'll need a way to scan (or print) the film. It does seem to add up!
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Got a bag, tripod and a loupe. Ordered some film :).
I’ll load the holder in the dark in the garage and I’ll tray develop there too. I’ve tray developed a single 120 frame before, though I can’t remember for the life of me why :s
 
ChrisR said:
Don't forget you also need double dark slides, film, dark bag, dark cloth (black T-shirt will do at a pinch), loupe, a good tripod and a largish camera bag (probably have the latter two). A tray dev setup should do fine, if you're used to it (no safe light!), but you'll need a way to scan (or print) the film. It does seem to add up!
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Oh I ask a question though, is there a cheap way to scan the film? Ive always used a camera and a macro lens but I cant see any holders for 4x5 that seem cheap enough considering they are basically just a square of plastic in most cases
 
Nebular89 said:
Oh I ask a question though, is there a cheap way to scan the film? Ive always used a camera and a macro lens but I cant see any holders for 4x5 that seem cheap enough considering they are basically just a square of plastic in most cases
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I just used my Epson V500, scanned the negs in two parts and auto-stitched them in Affinity Photo, Bit of a PITA but it worked.
 
First shot. I had to rush as the light was disappearing, took it this evening, so I didn’t level the tripod. Top half of the tree looks to be out of focus, not used to the shallow dof. Other than that seems alright. Thought it was going to be scratched, struggled getting it in the holder.
Tray developed it in rodinal. It’s fine but it’s a fair amount of developer for 1 sheet, want to get a holder for multiple sheets and a tank but for now it’s good enough
 

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I think having a 4x5 would be neat. But just like when I went to digital I got into computer's and printer's, If I went 4x5 I'd have to build onto the house for the dark room!
 
Don Fischer said:
I think having a 4x5 would be neat. But just like when I went to digital I got into computer's and printer's, If I went 4x5 I'd have to build onto the house for the dark room!
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I dont have a darkroom. I tray developed it in the bathroom. Only downside is I have to wait until its dark outside before I can develop anything but it only cost me £4 in cheap food storage trays.
 
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Nebular89 said:
I dont have a darkroom. I tray developed it in the bathroom. Only downside is I have to wait until its dark outside before I can develop anything but it only cost me £4 in cheap food storage trays.
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What did your printer and film dryer cost? The bed room or bathroom can be blacked out with black visqueen covering to windows and doors. You'll also need to store chemicals and paper somewhere. of course if you don't print your own, I don't get why you'd develope your own film!
 
Don Fischer said:
What did your printer and film dryer cost? The bed room or bathroom can be blacked out with black visqueen covering to windows and doors. You'll also need to store chemicals and paper somewhere. of course if you don't print your own, I don't get why you'd develope your own film!
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I get my black and white prints done by ilford, I dont really see the need for a printer, the cost for a good one would be too much for the amount that I print. I dont have a film dryer, I just hang them in the bathroom and leave them to dry. I dont think film dryers are that common, might be wrong.
I havent blacked out anything. My bathroom gets no light come in through the window once its dark and theres no need to black out the door if you just turn the lights off in the hall, but you need to wait until night obviously.
You only need 3 bottles of chemicals, a developer, fixer and a wash. I dont use a stop anymore, just water.
I develop it myself because its WAY cheaper than sending it off. I also get the finished negative back the same day. It also feels part of the process.
 
Any "out of focus" at the top of the tree could just be movement, 4x5 tends to lead to quite slow shutter speeds. But the setting of the front and rear standards will have a big impact on DOF, that's one of the attractions to using large format along with slowing down and taking your time.

There are 3 YouTube videos that I have found explain the effects you get from using front and rear movement quite well.

View: https://youtu.be/Pa2ooov5CfY?si=r_6VGQJN9ZAGHtyG


View: https://youtu.be/Pt-6w9B-Iss?si=mfcl9uu_WlAGCV4Z


https://youtu.be/vwz24fQxlkM?si=1v7JUa8M3MDkVUHv

I know the feeling of failing light, went out to Burnham on Sea Low Lighthouse a few years ago, last shot of the day metered at 10 minutes, added 5 for reciprocity (acros) and with light dropping fast towards the end of the exposure I added another 5 minutes. Wonderful being able to just stand and watch while the camera did its thing, all the time praying the waves didn't get any closer.
 
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