beginner help.

[shaylou]

I am a beginner with 4 weeks experience so you might think, why in the world would I give advise. Well I felt the need to post this because I'm not finding anyone pointing beginners to it. Obviously understanding exposure is key but what is overlooked so much when searching for information about exposure is - Histogram. What better way to see what your exposure adjustment are actually doing than to look at the live histogram (if available on your camera). I have been studying exposure nonstop for a month now and have got a basic understanding of it but it wasn't until I added the live histogram to my SLR that it really came together. Btw, no one really advised me to use the histogram but I was analyzing my pictures in the software and realized that I needed a better understanding of this graph in the upper right of my software. As they say the rest was history. So my point is to all neebees like me, stop what you are doing and learn how to read a histogram and very important learn how to turn your histogram on in live mode if you have this option.

P.s. I just thought it was somewhat odd that this was not at the top of the list for beginners. Oh well I'm so glad its there. Hope this helps someone.

 

[u8myufo]

I am a beginner with 4 weeks experience so you might think, why in the world would I give advise. Well I felt the need to post this because I'm not finding anyone pointing beginners to it. Obviously understanding exposure is key but what is overlooked so much when searching for information about exposure is - Histogram. What better way to see what your exposure adjustment are actually doing than to look at the live histogram (if available on your camera). I have been studying exposure nonstop for a month now and have got a basic understanding of it but it wasn't until I added the live histogram to my SLR that it really came together. Btw, no one really advised me to use the histogram but I was analyzing my pictures in the software and realized that I needed a better understanding of this graph in the upper right of my software. As they say the rest was history. So my point is to all neebees like me, stop what you are doing and learn how to read a histogram and very important learn how to turn your histogram on in live mode if you have this option.

P.s. I just thought it was somewhat odd that this was not at the top of the list for beginners. Oh well I'm so glad its there. Hope this helps someone.

Each to their own and I am sure some will benefit. I never had the luxury of Histrogram when I had an SLR so I have never really looked at it with a DSLR :shrug:

 

[shaylou]

Each to their own and I am sure some will benefit. I never had the luxury of Histrogram when I had an SLR so I have never really looked at it with a DSLR :shrug:

Agreed. I am loving this. I can see the the picture exposure before I ever take the shot. The great part is adjusting the exposure before shooting. I can dial it in, take shot then fine tune my shot.

The reason I posted this was because I didn't even know I had it on my camera. Also it took quite a bit of searching to figure out how to turn it on.

 

[Phil V]

SOme points to consider:
Live Histogram generally comes with live view, except for specific situations, its not the best way to hold your camera.

The histogram will vary depending on the scene, it might be good to generally ETTR or some other trendy technique, but some knowledge of what the histogram is showing ought to stop us slavishly following it.

This is, however a great tip and is missed by most 'exposure' guides because they were written in the film days and have never been updated properly.

Also watch for blinkies, again, missed from the 'great' books on exposure.

 

[shaylou]

SOme points to consider:
Live Histogram generally comes with live view, except for specific situations, its not the best way to hold your camera.

The histogram will vary depending on the scene, it might be good to generally ETTR or some other trendy technique, but some knowledge of what the histogram is showing ought to stop us slavishly following it.

This is, however a great tip and is missed by most 'exposure' guides because they were written in the film days and have never been updated properly.

Also watch for blinkies, again, missed from the 'great' books on exposure.

Yes the live view is not the best but as a beginner I found that by adjusting around the histogram puts me in the general area of exposure that I need to be in. As a beginner this is extremely beneficial. I do not plan on using this as a crutch rather as one of the many tools my slr provides me.

As far as the blinky goes, it is in the manual so I am aware of it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[weybourne]

I have blinkies switched on but hardly ever use the histogram.

 

[Photodiva]

The histogram is only useful after you take the shot. Better to meter the scene and adjust your exposure first and then concentrate on composition. Dont get hung up on histograms

 

[HoppyUK]

I am a beginner with 4 weeks experience so you might think, why in the world would I give advise. Well I felt the need to post this because I'm not finding anyone pointing beginners to it. Obviously understanding exposure is key but what is overlooked so much when searching for information about exposure is - Histogram. What better way to see what your exposure adjustment are actually doing than to look at the live histogram (if available on your camera). I have been studying exposure nonstop for a month now and have got a basic understanding of it but it wasn't until I added the live histogram to my SLR that it really came together. Btw, no one really advised me to use the histogram but I was analyzing my pictures in the software and realized that I needed a better understanding of this graph in the upper right of my software. As they say the rest was history. So my point is to all neebees like me, stop what you are doing and learn how to read a histogram and very important learn how to turn your histogram on in live mode if you have this option.

P.s. I just thought it was somewhat odd that this was not at the top of the list for beginners. Oh well I'm so glad its there. Hope this helps someone.

The histogram and blinkies, especially blinkies IMHO, are a couple of the greatest gifts from the Gods of digital. The metering sytem makeas a good guess, but the histogram/blinkes shows you what you've actually got

And you're right - they're generally overlooked or under-rated/misunderstood.

Very few DSLRs have a live histogram in the viewfinder though. Only the Sony SLTs with electonic finders I think. And no live view can show the effect of flash - you need to take a picture and then check.

 

[shaylou]

The histogram is only useful after you take the shot. Better to meter the scene and adjust your exposure first and then concentrate on composition. Dont get hung up on histograms

With all do respect the histogram is available preshoot and you can make adjustments to the exposure before shooting and see how the histogram is effected. For people that are starting out this is a valuable tool.

 

[shaylou]

The histogram is only useful after you take the shot. Better to meter the scene and adjust your exposure first and then concentrate on composition. Dont get hung up on histograms

Oh I almost forgot to ask. Are you referring to using a separate hand held light meter? I heard of those but dont know much about it. Does that type of meter measure all the available light it sees? If so, is it only useful where the subject is close to the slr? I really dont know about this but it sounds like they would be great for things like portraits but not useful when you have to zoom in in the subject. That is unless the slr has its own light meter that I just haven't come across yet. Lol. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

[shaylou]

The histogram and blinkies, especially blinkies IMHO, are a couple of the greatest gifts from the Gods of digital. The metering sytem makeas a good guess, but the histogram/blinkes shows you what you've actually got

And you're right - they're generally overlooked or under-rated/misunderstood.

Very few DSLRs have a live histogram in the viewfinder though. Only the Sony SLTs with electonic finders I think. And no live view can show the effect of flash - you need to take a picture and then check.

Thanks for your reply. Yeah not being able to see the histogram through the viewfinder is a pain. I really dont enjoy switching back in forth but it's worth it to me. I need to figure out how to make all of the exposure adjustments wail looking at the histogram. At this point I'm having a hard time making adjustments. Looks like more reading is in order... wish my brian peterson exposure book would hurry up and get here.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks for your reply. Yeah not being able to see the histogram through the viewfinder is a pain. I really dont enjoy switching back in forth but it's worth it to me. I need to figure out how to make all of the exposure adjustments wail looking at the histogram. At this point I'm having a hard time making adjustments. Looks like more reading is in order... wish my brian peterson exposure book would hurry up and get here.

2 bits of bad news -
The Brian Paterson book is the one I 'referred' to, there's no real mention of the help that digital gives us. It was written years ago and has only been tweaked for digital. For real digital exposure help, I'm afraid the internet is the best source of information.

Secondly, your sensor has to see the scene in order to give you a histogram, which means that physics is in the way of giving us an optical viewfinder and a histogram at the same time.

The only honest message is that you have to learn to read a scene. Any reflected meter is set to measure a mid tone (18% grey?), whether it's a basic average meter, a centre weighted meter or a spot meter. The trick is to understand how your scene compares to that standard.

There are people who'll tell you that Manual exposure is the only way to do it, or that spot metering is the only way. That you have to never use matrix metering because in trying to be smart it becomes unpredictable - or even that you really need an incident meter. All of the above have an element of truth, but they can all be ignored by you as long as you fully understand how your chosen subject compares to mid grey.

My biggest problem with pre checking a histogram is that it's time consuming and my chosen types of photography are based on timing (portraits and motorsport). So I need to be aware of the lighting changes on the fly and working with them.

 

[shaylou]

2 bits of bad news -
The Brian Paterson book is the one I 'referred' to, there's no real mention of the help that digital gives us. It was written years ago and has only been tweaked for digital. For real digital exposure help, I'm afraid the internet is the best source of information.

Secondly, your sensor has to see the scene in order to give you a histogram, which means that physics is in the way of giving us an optical viewfinder and a histogram at the same time.

The only honest message is that you have to learn to read a scene. Any reflected meter is set to measure a mid tone (18% grey?), whether it's a basic average meter, a centre weighted meter or a spot meter. The trick is to understand how your scene compares to that standard.

There are people who'll tell you that Manual exposure is the only way to do it, or that spot metering is the only way. That you have to never use matrix metering because in trying to be smart it becomes unpredictable - or even that you really need an incident meter. All of the above have an element of truth, but they can all be ignored by you as long as you fully understand how your chosen subject compares to mid grey.

My biggest problem with pre checking a histogram is that it's time consuming and my chosen types of photography are based on timing (portraits and motorsport). So I need to be aware of the lighting changes on the fly and working with them.

As far as the book goes I'm okay with it not going much into digital. My guess is that it will help me understand the fundamentals of exposure better and I can apply the digital aspect to what I learned. I'm a bit confused on the 18% gray aspect of what your referring too so I'll need to read about that. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Phil V]

Basically a reflected light meter assesses a scene as being of average tone (18% grey). And gives a correct exposure for that.

So if you fill your screen with a white wall, and believe the meter you'll see your picture is a grey wall.

And if you do the same with a black wall, youll get a grey wall.

And both of the histograms would be identical.

The photographer, sees the bright subject and uses whatever his chosen method is to get the camera to deliver a white wall ( or a black one).

For the correct exposures, the histogram will be a large spike on the right (white) or on the left (black).

That's a massive simplification, but should give you an insight into how only you can know how to use the tools to get the result you want. And theres no right and wrong in art, so you may well one day want to take a photo of a white wall and make it dark grey.

 

[Photodiva]

Oh I almost forgot to ask. Are you referring to using a separate hand held light meter? I heard of those but dont know much about it. Does that type of meter measure all the available light it sees? If so, is it only useful where the subject is close to the slr? I really dont know about this but it sounds like they would be great for things like portraits but not useful when you have to zoom in in the subject. That is unless the slr has its own light meter that I just haven't come across yet. Lol. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Shaylou - using the live view histogram is a bit hit and miss - it changes every time you move the camera until you press the shutter. Use the +/- bar at the bottom of the viewfinder to gauge your exposure correctly.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3709294472_79bc8c94ae.jpg
Either get to understand metering and your camera's manual settings or stick to P mode and concentrate on composition. That's just my 2p.

Hand held light meters are a bit unnecessary these days as most camera metering is pretty good TTL. I use a light meter but for studio lights.

What Phil says means, effectively, that if you shoot a snow scene, unless you adjust, you'll get grey snow. If you shoot a dark interior, unless you adjust, you'll get it overexposed. The camera is set to expose for a mid-grey, something your camera may easily find in a well-lit outdoor scene. That's what the camera engineers set as a default.
I use the evaluative metering on my camera, but set the exposure manually. But I shoot mostly sport and sometimes in tricky conditions.

Cheers!

 

[shaylou]

Thanks for your reply. Yeah not being able to see the histogram through the viewfinder is a pain. I really dont enjoy switching back in forth but it's worth it to me. I need to figure out how to make all of the exposure adjustments wail looking at the histogram. At this point I'm having a hard time making adjustments. Looks like more reading is in order... wish my brian peterson exposure book would hurry up and get here.

Thanks for your reply. I have a question in regards to the blinky. Some times I see the blinky in say the top of the pic but because its so high on the pic I just looked at it like no problem because I was planing to crop anyway. Is this okay?

 

[Photodiva]

Blinkies just tell you where the pic is overexposed and often it is the sky that suffers. Its up to you to decide if that's acceptable. You don't want blinkies on the subject in your pic, but sometimes in the background its OK. (That what photoshop is for).

Don't get the idea that there is an 'ideal' histogram. Every picture will be different. The only things you need to worry about are blocked shadows (underexposure) and blown highlights (overexposure) where the histogram 'falls off' at either end.

 

[shaylou]

Blinkies just tell you where the pic is overexposed and often it is the sky that suffers. Its up to you to decide if that's acceptable. You don't want blinkies on the subject in your pic, but sometimes in the background its OK. (That what photoshop is for).

Don't get the idea that there is an 'ideal' histogram. Every picture will be different. The only things you need to worry about are blocked shadows (underexposure) and blown highlights (overexposure) where the histogram 'falls off' at either end.

Thanks for the help. I have learned that the histogram is great for beginners trying to understand exposure but its not in any way a tell all. I can see why the more experienced photographer would not use it as often as the inexperienced. Once again thanks for the help. "There is no substitution for experience"....

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for the help. I have learned that the histogram is great for beginners trying to understand exposure but its not in any way a tell all. I can see why the more experienced photographer would not use it as often as the inexperienced. Once again thanks for the help. "There is no substitution for experience"....

I wouldn't say that. My impression is that newcomers are more wary of the histogram as it looks complicated, when it isn't really. And it does actually tell you everything, especially when used in conjunction with blinkies that give you a precise fix on exactly which areas are over-exposed.

One thing to be aware of is that everything you see on the LCD, including the histogram and blinkies, is generated from a JPEG image (even when you're shooting Raw). Therefore it is subject to all the in-camera pres-sets, white balance etc, but also picture styles. In particular, the contrast setting can shift the histogram by as much as one stop, so if you want the closest guide to what is actually on the sensor, turn that down.

BTW, blinkies will start to flash just before an area is actually blown to pure white, maybe half a stop before. It's a warning. Again, the point at which they start is affected by the pre-sets applied. If you want to be really accurate, perhaps when using ETTR (Expose To The Right - of the histogram) technique, then you need to do some tests with your particualr camera and post processing software so you know exactly where the ceiling is and how far you can push it.

 

[Georges]

When shooting in raw the histogram is the histogram of the jpeg viewed on the camera LCD and it is different dim that of the raw data or indeed if you later generate jpeg from the raw file.

It might a quick indication about light and tones but all that be changed when converting raw files.

A useful tool if you don't shoot in raw.

 

[HoppyUK]

When shooting in raw the histogram is the histogram of the jpeg viewed on the camera LCD and it is different dim that of the raw data or indeed if you later generate jpeg from the raw file.

It might a quick indication about light and tones but all that be changed when converting raw files.

A useful tool if you don't shoot in raw.

Not true. Vital when shooting Raw and using ETTR technique.

If you turn down the contrast in pictures styles, what you see on the histogram/blinkies is very close to what's on the Raw. There's certainly no better way of doing it.

 

[Georges]

True with Ettr, I try to use this technique when I can, to collect as much data as I can for post processing. Sometimes I find it too time consuming.

 

[HoppyUK]

True with Ettr, I try to use this technique when I can, to collect as much data as I can for post processing. Sometimes I find it too time consuming.

Very easy with a bit of practise Georges

Get to know your camera, turn down the contrast setting, do some test exposures and see what comes up on your post processing package. You'll find the Raw and JPEG are not that different, but then you'll know just how much headroom you've got for ETTR.

I'm no hero on this, but I can take a quick snap in evaluative mode knowing it will most likely be close, then just glance at the blinkies. I want to see them flashing on very bright highlights, usually things like reflections of the sun from shiny subjects like white paintwork etc.

I'm not worried about them, and anyway it usually takes a big exposure adjustment to pull them down that would ruin the whole point of ETTR. If I have blinkies on important areas like foreheads and cheeks, I'll under-expose a bit to secure them (but knowing I still have maybe a stop of headroom on the Raw).

Every subject is slightly different, and TBH ETTR doesn't always make a huge difference. But if shadow detail is important, ETTR can put another couple of stops down there that adds very noticeable detail and richness, plus less noise.

Sorry, you probably know all this. For the benefit of others ETTR is an advanced technique, and only applies when shooting Raw. It requyires a certain amount of skill because you're pushing exposure right to the edge of the sensor's capacity. If you go too far, you'll blitz important areas and that is then unrecoverable.