Beginner with square filters.

PGlynn

PGlynn

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Pete
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I wish to start using some neutral density soft grads to retain sky detail when taking landscapes. I've been doing my usual research on 't' internet, the problem is I'm finding too much info which is confusing me even more.

To put things simply, is all I need a holder (Probably 100mm for my Canon 24-105 and 17-40 lenses which I'd probably use mostly for landscapes, fortunately both 77mm thread sized), a 77mm adaptor ring (I also think I'm right in saying I need the wide angle version of the adaptor ring) and a filter to drop in the holder? AND THAT'S THAT.

I know Lee are the dogs doo-dahs, but a bit too pricey for the occasional landscape shooting amateur. Having said that, the Lee Foundation Kit will give me the holder, and their adaptor rings are both reasonably priced, Kit £52, Ring £37.

Now this is where Lee start to get pricey, the filter itself, Lee 100mm ND 0.6 Grad medium filter @ £86, as an example.

Whereas Hitech 100mm Grad ND 0.6 soft edge filter @ £45:50.

I believe Hitech are still a pretty good filter. (Yes I would buy the three filter kit, but for comparison purposes......)

Will the Hitech filters fit in the Lee holder?

If all the above thinking is sound, it's a price an occasional landscape shooting amateur would be happy to pay.

Have I missed something? All seems hunky dorey in my simplistic mind.

Any and all advice will be much appreciated..

Many thanks in anticipation.

Pete.
 
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Thanks for that sirch, might be worth consideration after my logic is confirmed.

Pete
 
I am not convinced that ND and ND grads are necessary given what can be achieved in post (see posts on this forum and others). However I very recently i.e. last week bought a cheap set for approx £40 so I could make up my own mind. That was for adapter, holder and various filters. Too early for a conclusion but I wouldn't recommend buying the premium products until you are convinced you need them. For lenses that go down to 24mm get the wide angle versions.
 
Archie747 said:
I am not convinced that ND and ND grads are necessary given what can be achieved in post (see posts on this forum and others). However I very recently i.e. last week bought a cheap set for approx £40 so I could make up my own mind. That was for adapter, holder and various filters. Too early for a conclusion but I wouldn't recommend buying the premium products until you are convinced you need them. For lenses that go down to 24mm get the wide angle versions.
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I am not sure how you recreate a 30 second shot in daylight in PP?
Grads balance out exposures that make shots easier to process in PP saving time sat at the comtuper
 
I did say I have not made up my mind yet. I agree with the 30 sec exposure point. How do you deal with horizons that are not level e.g. Lots of trees, a building?
 
In order to use the Lee square filter system you will need the following:

The foundation kit
A suitable adapter - in the case of the 17-40 I would suggest the wide angle version (77mm) which will also fit your other lens
One or more square filters - actually the grads are rectangular but ...

That's it :)

I'd suggest a hard or medium edge grad rather than soft, the new medium grads are probably the best bet to start with imo/e. I'd suggest a 3 stop grad and ND too, if you can stretch to the pro glass these are slightly better than the resin ones (these are ND filters not grads btw), but they are fiercely expensive. After that it is up to you, plenty of fun to be had with little, big and the super stopper ;)
 
PaulButler said:
That's it :)
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That's EXACTLY the information I wanted, thank you Paul.

You agree with me about the expense of Lee filters:

Question still outstanding, can I use Hitech filters with the Lee holder?

Thanks again

Pete
 
Archie747 said:
I did say I have not made up my mind yet. I agree with the 30 sec exposure point. How do you deal with horizons that are not level e.g. Lots of trees, a building?
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Basically you use nd grad soft for uneven horizons with buildings and trees etc and the the hard grads for seascapes and even horizon were nothing breaks through. Check this link out and also the exposure online magazine on the same site for some great tips. http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/index
 
I've got Hitech filters and yes a lee holder!

And they fit!!!!! [emoji23]
 
Many thanks Mark.

Time to order. Wex seem to be the cheapest.

Pete.
 
PGlynn said:
Many thanks Mark.

Time to order. Wex seem to be the cheapest.

Pete.
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There is nothing wrong with Hitech ! Better than cokin but not as good as lee! But Lee don't do my favourite filter! My hi tech reverse grad!
 
I also use Hitech filters, but use them in a Nisi holder. The Nisi holder was around £100 but comes with an 82mm polariser with the filters sitting in front of the lens with the filters going on in front of that and with a widget thing to rotate the polariser separately. It has step up rings for 67mm, 77mm and I think 72mm. I have used it with a 24mm lens and think it is great with the polariser being really useful where reflections are involved. Just another option to consider really. I have not used the Lee holder and only tried the Nisi as the Hitech one I have sometimes does not fit on properly but am happy with the Nisi at the moment.
 
Nguss said:
I also use Hitech filters, but use them in a Nisi holder. The Nisi holder was around £100 but comes with an 82mm polariser with the filters sitting in front of the lens with the filters going on in front of that and with a widget thing to rotate the polariser separately. It has step up rings for 67mm, 77mm and I think 72mm. I have used it with a 24mm lens and think it is great with the polariser being really useful where reflections are involved. Just another option to consider really. I have not used the Lee holder and only tried the Nisi as the Hitech one I have sometimes does not fit on properly but am happy with the Nisi at the moment.
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How do you find the Nisi holder? It's seems a good and slightly cheaper set up over the Lee or Hitech set ups as for a holder adapter and polarizer on them its the best part of £300 before any nd or grads are brought
 
ian-83 said:
How do you find the Nisi holder? It's seems a good and slightly cheaper set up over the Lee or Hitech set ups as for a holder adapter and polarizer on them its the best part of £300 before any nd or grads are brought
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Personally I think it is excellent. I was cautious having read the reviews on Amazon saying that the holder can drop off if knocked but have not noticed that issue myself yet. I find that the polariser being integrated with the filter set up in front of the lens is great, and really takes the faff out of screwing on a polariser, then (with the Hitech one I have) adding the filter holder. I have not used the Lee holders, but understand that the polariser is added onto the end of the set up rather than the start? By way of example I used it at the weekend with my 25mm lens (which is the widest that I have) and found the set up really useful - I reckon that if I was using my Hitech setup (again I am using the early version of the adaptor and ring and don't know if it was updated) i would not have also been using the polariser so would not have been able to take this photograph due to the faff:


NGU_0539 by Neil, on Flickr

I also think that the polariser itself seems to be of good quality and it really really slim. All in all so far, I think it is great.
 
Tringa said:
Another vote for the holders, adaptor rings and grads from SRB - http://srb-photographic.co.uk/. , well worth having a look at.

Dave
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Not much information on their website, but what size holder/filters are equivalent to the Lee Foundation Kit? I'm guessing it's the P Size? (P brings back terrible Cokin memories) - their 6 and 10 stops are a lot more affordable than Lee and looks a great entry point to filters
 
AllFallD0wn said:
Not much information on their website, but what size holder/filters are equivalent to the Lee Foundation Kit? I'm guessing it's the P Size? (P brings back terrible Cokin memories) - their 6 and 10 stops are a lot more affordable than Lee and looks a great entry point to filters
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P sized filters are 84/85mm wide. Lee's stuff is 100mm wide.
 
ian-83 said:
How do you find the Nisi holder? It's seems a good and slightly cheaper set up over the Lee or Hitech set ups as for a holder adapter and polarizer on them its the best part of £300 before any nd or grads are brought
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I wrote a review on the Nisi system http://www.justinminns.co.uk/blog/search?q=nisi short version is that the design of the Nisi holder is great in theory but flawed in practice imo... I much prefer the simpler Lee holder
 
I'm also a beginner with square filters. I just bought the Hitech Firecrest holder, which is similar to the NISI in that you have an adapter step-up ring, and the polariser spun by a wheel which sits behind the filters in the holder. You also have end caps top and bottom designed to stop light leaks. The main thing that originally sparked the decision to go with this system is the cost of all the LEE bits add up, particularly the Polariser and the bits that screw into the lens. I can buy the step-up rings for the Firecrest for a couple of quid on ebay and leave these permanently on the lenses with a lens cap. However, I still have to remove the polariser from the holder and screw it in each time. The end caps will also probably be fiddly. Starting to think I should have gone with the Lee system but I guess the best thing I can do now is build up my filter collection and get shooting. Maybe I can save for the Lee holder and bits if it annoys me enough.
 
We all pays our money ,and takes our chances ,, and I'm sure we all made mistakes and bought on the cheap at one point ,,,, though deep down ,, we know we should have bought what we really wanted in the 1st place
 
I was out shooting today with a set of Hitech ND grads and they are OK but certainly not neutral. There is a blue cast which needs to be corrected in software. Which brings me on to my next point...I'm really starting to think that ND grads can be replaced with software exposure blending and achieve a superior result to doing it with real filters 'in camera'.

The major floor of ND grads is the fact you can only separate the filtered and not filtered parts of a scene with a straight line and mountains, trees etc. do not dissect a scene in a straight line, so you end up with parts of the foreground being darkened which just looks weird.

Using luminosity masks for example, you can create perfect selections of the area where you want to blend in another exposure which gives more natural results and also avoids introducing any colour cast.

Of course, the only filter effect you cannot (arguably) reproduce in post-processing is slowing down the whole exposure with NDs to create a motion blur, and I think there is still a place for that. But for balancing exposures, I think the results you can achieve using photoshop and luminosity masks is better than ND grads in every way.

**mod edit** no trading ourside classifieds thanks
 
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Thank you for the offer Bill, but I've now bought my kit, including the ring you offered.

and thanks to all for contributing to this post, most helpful.

Pete
 
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