Best for Aviation?

Ok... if there is no substitute for shutter speed then perhaps im better looking for a camera in my budget thathas the best high iso performance.

If im correct that rules out the sony's and the olympus's/panasonic

Im starting to think the pentax/samsung may be the best as it does have some sort of IS(body) and good highiso performance and also the weather seals would be good for outdoor work?

Cheers
 
I'm a big fan of IS but it's not a universal solution. I'd even go so far as to say that some stabilisation systems wouldn't take to it and would be better turned off.

Yes, Nikon's VR!! Definitely turn it off for moving things!!!!
 
They have both had identical shutter length. Its on this review..

http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Sony-Alpha-A350-Compared-to-Nikon-D80-pg1.shtml

It says the Sony is.. Sony A350K SLR lens kit, 200 ISO, Shutter Priority 1.6 sec at F8, Steady Shot On, 50mm, AWB

And Nikon... Nikon D80 with AF-S 18-55mm VR lens, 200 ISO, Shutter Priority 1.6 sec at F10, VR On, 48mm, AWB

And both were.. The shooting parameters were; shutter priority exposure mode set to 1.6" sec with full area evaluative metering, ISO set to 200, Auto WB, and standard processing.

Cheers

The nikon is a £700 plus camera and the sony is around £400. Id expect a difference if its getting on for twice the price. You should be comparing the sony to a d40 or d60
 
If you want a decent budget longer lens with stabilisation you would be hard pressed to beat the Canon 55-250mm IS.

Couple it with a second hand 350D or 400D and you have a great solution. :)
 
The nikon is a £700 plus camera and the sony is around £400. Id expect a difference if its getting on for twice the price. You should be comparing the sony to a d40 or d60

Well that lens comes with the Nikon D60. Surely the result would be the same whatever nikon body it was on?
 
How so?

In lens stabilisation is tuned to the optics and characteristics of the specific lens. In body isn't.
says who (& remember people like Canon with a vested interest said that you couldn't have in-body IS with a FF sensor untiil Sony did it)?
I don't know about others (but I would imagine that they are the same) but Minolta/Sonys know what lens is attached to the body & the body has a lookup table at least for 1st party lenses so it knows about the characteristics of the attached lens & the exact focal distance in use is part of the IS calculation.

It's a very hard topic to discuss because there are so many variables - e.g. take Canon's 100-400mm, it's an old design & the IS is only rated for 2 stops whereas the latest generation of in-body may well give between 3 & 5 stops.
In-body IS is better suited to fast wides than in-lens whereas in-lens is possibly better suited to ultra tele (in-body still works at 500 & 600mm though).
If you are going to generalise pretty much all that you can say is that equivalent generations perform pretty similarly overall & having 1 is better than not having any.

What could get very interesting is that Sigma have said that they are going to start making their OS lenses in Minolta/Sony mount & if we understand them correctly that includes working OS.
This means that Sony users (& possibly they are doing the same for Pentax etc.) will have the choice of using either in-body or in-lens simply by switching 1 off & the other on ...
That should sort the argument :LOL:
 
says who (& remember people like Canon with a vested interest said that you couldn't have in-body IS with a FF sensor untiil Sony did it)?
I don't know about others (but I would imagine that they are the same) but Minolta/Sonys know what lens is attached to the body & the body has a lookup table at least for 1st party lenses so it knows about the characteristics of the attached lens & the exact focal distance in use is part of the IS calculation.

It's a very hard topic to discuss because there are so many variables - e.g. take Canon's 100-400mm, it's an old design & the IS is only rated for 2 stops whereas the latest generation of in-body may well give between 3 & 5 stops.
In-body IS is better suited to fast wides than in-lens whereas in-lens is possibly better suited to ultra tele (in-body still works at 500 & 600mm though).
If you are going to generalise pretty much all that you can say is that equivalent generations perform pretty similarly overall & having 1 is better than not having any.

What could get very interesting is that Sigma have said that they are going to start making their OS lenses in Minolta/Sony mount & if we understand them correctly that includes working OS.
This means that Sony users (& possibly they are doing the same for Pentax etc.) will have the choice of using either in-body or in-lens simply by switching 1 off & the other on ...
That should sort the argument :LOL:


Sounds like a pretty weak defense of in-camera stabilisation to me. And I think Sony also has a vested interest in making their claims ;)

In-lens is not less good for 'fast wides' - I don't know why you should say that. It's just not necessary, which is why so few fast wides have it. My 17-55 2.8 has IS, and that seems to work very well.

In-lens has proved time and again, in independent tests, to out-perform in-camera when it comes to the range of stabilisation. Ignore maker's claims, and compare the lastest versions of each system.

In-lens stabilises the viewfinder, as well as the image. This is a huge benefit when tracking fast moving subjects. With long lenses, it makes the difference between getting the shot, or nothing, some of the time. Hit rate is certainly dramatically improved.

Sigma may well sell their OS lenses for cameras that already have in-camera stabilisation, but since the camera won't be programmed to adjust to it, the benefits may be compromised.

There is nothing to stop Canon and Nikon producing in-camera stabilisation to work alongside their in-lens systems. They could do it now. That really will be the best of both worlds. The technology is already semi in place with sensor cleaning facility. Sony etc does not have this option without replacing their entire lens range.
 
Sounds like a pretty weak defense of in-camera stabilisation to me. And I think Sony also has a vested interest in making their claims ;)
I don't see that it's any weaker than your defense of in-lens?
Of course they all have a vested interest, never said that they didn't.

In-lens is not less good for 'fast wides' - I don't know why you should say that.
parking errors etc. show up dramatically on wides, less so on teles.
I'm sure that you can see that it's easier to optimise a lens design with fewer moving parts?

It's just not necessary, which is why so few fast wides have it. My 17-55 2.8 has IS, and that seems to work very well.
it's maybe not necessary for you but other people may want to shoot at e.g. 35mm f1.4 in poor light without flash. So few fast wides don't have it because it's extremely hard to do. f2.8 isn't that fast.

In-lens has proved time and again, in independent tests, to out-perform in-camera when it comes to the range of stabilisation. Ignore maker's claims, and compare the lastest versions of each system.
well, I'm going to disagree with you on that as I've seen independent tests where in-body outperformed in-lens.
& part of the argument is that comparing the latest against the latest isn't necessarily the real world situation. Most people pay more for & keep their glass longer than their bodies - with in-lens you are stuck with what you bought whereas with in-body if you upgrade bodies all your lenses get an upgrade too.

In-lens stabilises the viewfinder, as well as the image. This is a huge benefit when tracking fast moving subjects. With long lenses, it makes the difference between getting the shot, or nothing, some of the time. Hit rate is certainly dramatically improved.
I shoot fast jets & don't have a problem with an unstabilised vf (in fact panning is an area where I've already agreed that IS isn't much benefit).
On the other hand some people feel ill with a stabilised vf so that's a negative for them.

Sigma may well sell their OS lenses for cameras that already have in-camera stabilisation, but since the camera won't be programmed to adjust to it, the benefits may be compromised.
wasn't your point that "In lens stabilisation is tuned to the optics and characteristics of the specific lens", the OS is done in the lens so the body isn't involved ...
You can't have it both ways.

There is nothing to stop Canon and Nikon producing in-camera stabilisation to work alongside their in-lens systems. They could do it now. That really will be the best of both worlds.
So Sony gets the best of both worlds first then?:naughty:
little things like patents & also adopting it would be an admittance that in-body is as good/better under some circumstances & that would undermine their sales of IS lenses.
The technology is already semi in place with sensor cleaning facility. Sony etc does not have this option without replacing their entire lens range.
They wouldn't have to replace the lens range merely add to.
& Canon would have to replace their whole body range (which admittedly they would be doing on a faster turnover than lens updates generally happen).
meantime Sony (& Oly, Pentax etc.) could use the IS/VR versions of Sigma & Tamron lenses as well as of course their in-body IS systems with non IS/VR lenses.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if ultimately we end up with the situation where they all have both available.

The thing is & as I've said before they both work similarly overall & having 1 is better than not - the differences really aren't that large as to get hung up on.
 
Thanks for taking the time :)

To be honest, it's six of one and half dozen of the other on most counts. Except for the stabilised viewfinder bit. I really find that is a big advantage with long lenses, and no, it doesn't make me feel sick :eek:
 
To be honest, it's six of one and half dozen of the other on most counts.
absolutely.
They do have their own little areas where you can argue a minor advantage but overall they are as good as each other.
Except for the stabilised viewfinder bit. I really find that is a big advantage with long lenses, and no, it doesn't make me feel sick :eek:
& that's great for you. (y)
Some people don't find it any advantage though & some people do feel ill, like motion sickness so for them it's a disadvantage.
 
If it helps, I would also say that spot metering is not what you want to shoot aircraft. Get your meter reading off the grass or something else mid-grey, check and adjust against the histogram, and nail that manually. IMHO spot metering is mainly a marketing gimmick, as unless you have a really tiny spot, like 1 degree angle of view, it's not really spot anyway. Folks that have come from film often seem to like it for some reason, but each to their own. Bottom line is that spot is not the best way to go, unless it is very narrow and every aircraft is perfectly 18% grey.

Spot metering has been and will continue to give me the best results. I have covered many airshows and aviation events using all kind of settings. The most unconsistent results come from semi automatic modes and matrix (entire frame) metering. After these poor results I soon bagan to dial in positive and negative exposure calculations. The results were better but unconsistancy in metering was still present. After much evaluation I took the step towards using spot metering applying similar techniques used in my portrait photography. The results were consistent and well exsposed.

Every single aircraft has different light reflecting properties. Using grass to set your exposure (which I have used) does not provide you with a one exposure for all setting. It can give you a starting point but it will continually need fine tuning to compensate for the different aircraft.

When photographing an airshow I would highly recomend that you pre-meter the aircraft while they are on the ground. Write the settings down and refer to them when the aircraft are performing their display. This will provide you with the best possible exsposure.

To say that it is a marketing gimmick and something that is simply adopted by those who have migrated from film to digital would be a bold claim. Many professional photographers rely on spot metering 100% of the time.

Though as pointed out by hoppy, each to their own.

As far lens, camera bodies and in camera or in body image stabalization go I would seek advise from the likes of G&A Images, MarkyJayne and other low level flight photographers. I would hazard a guess that they do not use the VR/IS function of their Nikon/Canon cameras. I personally have never used VR/IS while photographing aircraft, simply down to the fact that it is unable to keep up. Good hand holding and panning techniques are of more importance.

Other important factors are those of the display line. Your position relevant to the aircrafts display is very important. Study the pilots routine and the airfields viewing areas.

Aviation photography goes far beyond good exsposure and camera equipment. Composition, thirds, story, subject matter, aircraft positionning and many other factors should be considered.

Get what camera you think will work for you, what fits in your hand, what menu system suits you and most importantly one that you feel passionate about. These are truly the most important factors in choosing a camera system.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy the world of aviation photography as much as the rest of us.

Dan.
 
Hi,

Okay i have decided on a Sony A200

I can get a body only for £249, a body with 18-70mm for £259 or a body with 18-70 +75-300mm for £379

Is the 75-300 a good lens or am i much better off getting one of the other 2 and buying a different lens for £120 (remaining budget)?

Cheers
 
The kit 75-300mm is OK for what it is & £120 is probably a fair price for it (rather than it's usual ~£175 when it's overpriced).
The other alternative on Sonys is the Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD which again should be ~£125.
the Sigma 70-300mm APO DG is optically better but has a habit of breaking it's plastic AF gears on Sonys.
 
Hi,

Okay i have decided on a Sony A200

I can get a body only for £249, a body with 18-70mm for £259 or a body with 18-70 +75-300mm for £379

Is the 75-300 a good lens or am i much better off getting one of the other 2 and buying a different lens for £120 (remaining budget)?

Cheers

Just remember that you'll need very good light to get the best out of these budget lenses and probably develop a technique with the lens and camera when taking images, what I mean is, the machine gun technique (frame per second) will not work very well, your camera's ability to focus take the picture and refocus (is limited by the camera's ability to refresh focus and on a £250 camera will not be quick compared with camera bodies designed more with this in mind). With that budget lens, you may require to take a pause between shutter presses before taking the next shot otherwise you'll be deleting quite a few shots because there out of focus.

Peter
 
I would get a pentax k10/20d or samsung gx10/20

On another forum there is a chap called cliff who has amazing pics of aircraft

and thats with budget lenses (70-300mm for under £100) they look very sharp
 
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