Beware Amazon's Alexa

JohnC6

JohnC6

Messages
10,394
Name
John
Edit My Images
Yes
I heard a discussion on the radio about marketing and information gathering in relation to the likes of Amazon's Alexa. I assume it must be the same for Apple's Siri for iMacs and Apple mobiles.

My neighbour has Alexa and amazed me when he demonstrated its capabilities. He also has Siri on his iPhone and asked it to get my telephone number which it duly did..lol.

Last night I watched a Channel 4 programme, 'Dispatches' called 'The Secrets of Amazon' in which they sent in an 'employee' regarding working conditions and how Amazon dispose of waste,the likes of returned goods and also packaging.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/11/the-secrets-of-amazon-review

Re the programme that included Alexa one funny bit had someone ask Alexa.."How much UK tax does Amazon pay ? " The answer was "Amazon pays all taxes it is legally required to pay".

I found these two articles on the web and they're an enlightening read...somewhat alarming too. I don't and won't have any such technology.

The second link relates to another real-life experience by a US couple. In the article it states ,in the paragraph near the end..'Expansion Problems', that Alexa is being upgraded all the time to interact with a huge range of features and services.


https://SPAM/swlh/alexa-play-some-music-isnt-the-only-time-amazon-is-listening-to-you-a556df19613f

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/24/alexa_recording_couple/

On the issue of collecting information.In March I had to go into hospital, a rotator cuff (shoulder) operation and had to complete a questionnaire. I had the operation under my Health scheme so it was a private hospital. One section covered sexual orientation..Why ? The tick boxes had options for..heterosexual - gay - lesbian - transexual - bi-sexual...not sure ?..lol.

Heading 'Your religion : Christian - Islam-Hindu- Sikh I think there were a couple more.. yes, Buddhism..I wrote Dawkinsism..lol. Not Darwinism as he declared himself to be agnostic.

For another NHS form pretty well the same options but also 'Are you the gender you were born with ? I spoke to the secretary at the private hospital and she said a lot of people don't answer these questions.
 
We have Alexa (two dots and one built into the Sonos Beam), plus my Wife and I both use an iPhone and have Siri enabled (although rarely use it).

If my Wife and I talk about something (baby prams for example), she then logs onto Facebook and sees nothing but ads for what we have been talking about, its even brand specific.

They do listen in, not like some creepy fat bloke in his mums basement but they must have algorithms that listen to you talking and then target adverts based on it. We can almost replicate it exactly with Facebook, we have spoken about something random to test it out....next thing you know she opens the Facebook app and the ads appear.

Unsure if its Siri or Alexa but one of them is clearly doing it.
 
simon ess said:
What amazes me is that many people seem not to care.
Click to expand...
The younger generation just seems to embrace all these "Gadgets" like some demi-god or other.
My kids are the same despite my warnings, "It OK dad there is nothing wrong with any of this"
They seem to think "Targeted ads" are funny or at the most a coincidence.

And I think that the older generation mostly treats these "things" with the suspicion, ne contempt they deserve.
Well my peer group do certainly.
 
The Echo has been ideal for my aged father-in-law (95). Failing eyesight and limited mobility has imposed numerous restrictions, but an Echo device has introduced some key improvements. He is able to request radio stations without fiddling with a radio he can't see properly, listen to audio books and request virtually any Jazz album he can remember. And all at volumes that he can hear.

Ok, he doesn't really understand how it works and often Alexa does not quite understand his request. But it is a significant improvement to his quality of life.
 
4tea2 said:
The Echo has been ideal for my aged father-in-law (95). Failing eyesight and limited mobility has imposed numerous restrictions, but an Echo device has introduced some key improvements. He is able to request radio stations without fiddling with a radio he can't see properly, listen to audio books and request virtually any Jazz album he can remember. And all at volumes that he can hear.

Ok, he doesn't really understand how it works and often Alexa does not quite understand his request. But it is a significant improvement to his quality of life.
Click to expand...

Same for my Father-in-law (83), he loves it. I bought a dot for my parents a few months ago as well.
 
My father in law is convinced that some bloke is sat in a office listing to everything he says via his Alexa..

Yes the devices are listening, yes, they pick up on keywords and that shapes your online advertising, but to think that there are people actively listening to your mundane conversations is ridiculous.
 
2 somethings...
 
A German friend's husband is quadriplegic so bed-bound, but can speak and move his head; they use an Alexa device of some sort to enable him to call emergency support if she has to go out for shopping etc, and to control radio/tv etc. It does give him a limited degree of independence which is massively welcome. However it sometimes fails, and usually at the worst times...
 
noneforit said:
We have Alexa (two dots and one built into the Sonos Beam), plus my Wife and I both use an iPhone and have Siri enabled (although rarely use it).

If my Wife and I talk about something (baby prams for example), she then logs onto Facebook and sees nothing but ads for what we have been talking about, its even brand specific.

They do listen in, not like some creepy fat bloke in his mums basement but they must have algorithms that listen to you talking and then target adverts based on it. We can almost replicate it exactly with Facebook, we have spoken about something random to test it out....next thing you know she opens the Facebook app and the ads appear.

Unsure if its Siri or Alexa but one of them is clearly doing it.
Click to expand...

After reading your post in addition to the links I posted the first thought I had was the same as that posted Simon ess . Why don’t people care ? Tom (TCR4x4) makes the point that there isn’t someone sitting there listening to a conversation and that‘s no doubt true but it’s overlooking the potential and it’s overlooking the invasion of privacy aspect too.

This article was in the Telegraph on the 2nd of this month https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...omers-could-receive-payout-illegal-recording/

I heard of a similar situation a good while ago but I think I’m right in saying that for example..a young lady is due to go to a social event..a wedding, a birthday party..whatever and she’s on Face Book. She’s told her FB friends that she needs a new outfit,dress,whatever..even says what colour. She walks past a ladies clothes shop that has face recognition cameras and immediately gets a message alert on her mobile about ....you’ve guessed it.. that outfit/dress. Maybe in a sale or a new line. How they get her mobile number I don’t know but so much about us is known that I wouldn’t think that was a problem.

I’ve just done a bit of Googling and this is what it’s about.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...aff-their-customers-profile-details-58lx0jckt

I’d forgotten about a radio programme I listened to and someone carried out an experiment and got the same result as you and your wife experienced. I appreciate it can happen via cookies but listening is in a different ball park. In China, I think the most surveilled country in the world. 177 million cctv cameras.. the authorities are in the process of developing a ‘social credit’ system....a points-based system. Basically, if you commit anti-social acts ..ie what they consider to be anti-social acts, or don’t pay off debts etc..you get negative points..or whatever.. and if they exceed a particular level you are banned from..eg..a football ground Or cinemas.,etc. Outside the football ground/cinemas are facial recognition cameras and you won’t get in. My understanding is that it’s not yet operational ..a work in progress but it gives an idea of where surveillance..of any kind, could go.

I’m not concerned about our city/towns having cctv monitoring..they are a great asset to the police..as seen on many tv programmes about crime . I am concerned about what we’re discussing in this thread. However, it seems that you can stop these devices recording and sending conversations to source but it’s not made clear. Reading a couple of the posts above it’s not something they are concerned about, not a view I hold.

I also recognise the great improvement in quality of life for family members as outlined by John (4tea2) and Marc.

simon ess said:
What amazes me is that many people seem not to care.
Click to expand...

TCR4x4 said:
My father in law is convinced that some bloke is sat in a office listing to everything he says via his Alexa..

Yes the devices are listening, yes, they pick up on keywords and that shapes your online advertising, but to think that there are people actively listening to your mundane conversations is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
 
I think anything sent by electronic means these days is scanned for keywords if that's for national security or to target advertising needs on social media. Probably been going on since it was invented.
 
simon ess said:
It might not be bad but the only thing we know is that AI systems are responding to conversations.
Click to expand...
I say its just the tip of the iceberg.
We all know how fast technology is moving these days, and I'm sure most of it ( the discoveries) are a closely guarded secret by the industries concerned.
 
I keep looking at mine and saying big tits and blow job ,not worked yet ,but you live in hope
 
Cobra said:
The younger generation just seems to embrace all these "Gadgets" like some demi-god or other.
My kids are the same despite my warnings, "It OK dad there is nothing wrong with any of this"
They seem to think "Targeted ads" are funny or at the most a coincidence.

And I think that the older generation mostly treats these "things" with the suspicion, ne contempt they deserve.
Well my peer group do certainly.
Click to expand...

Why do you think targeted ads are a problem? Adverts are inevitable unless you're paying for a service so would you rather see something that might interest you or some random crap?

No different to (famously) Target sending coupons to people who they guess to be pregnant based on their in store activities
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Why do you think targeted ads are a problem?
Click to expand...
Targeted ads are inevitable as you suggest, in this day and age, its the method the information is gathered, from the likes of alexa or what ever these spying devices are called.
Targeted ads are proof that "they" are listening, just think about that for a bit.
 
Last edited:
My wife and I watched something on Channel 4's replay service last night. It was interspersed with ads, one of which informed us where the closest shop was where we could buy the brand in question!
 
Last edited:
Uneducated_Rick said:
Why do you think targeted ads are a problem? Adverts are inevitable unless you're paying for a service so would you rather see something that might interest you or some random crap?

No different to (famously) Target sending coupons to people who they guess to be pregnant based on their in store activities
Click to expand...
It’s not just ads for goods though is it? Same thing with so-called ‘social media’, if it were just ’social’ it wouldn’t be as much of a problem. It’s the political (undeclared) ads and streaming videos of mass murders (sorry getting a bit off Alexa there :() that spread on these systems. Who knows where ‘Alexa’ will end up? So I think it’s right to question these things.
Oh, and by the way, wet fleshy things are listening to Alexa and the like as has recently been reported.
 
Last edited:
Cobra said:
? do tell?
Click to expand...
Bugger, now I’ve got to go off and find the reference, but it was quite recent and may have been Google rather than Amazon.
Somewhat OT but on the subject of things you don’t think of when deploying new technology, I have just read this hilarious example where “Thousands illegally stream a boxing fight through the reflection off a guy's glasses” using a selfie and YouTube:
https://www.techspot.com/news/82764...ream-boxing-fight-through-reflection-off.html
 
From my link, slightly worrying eh?
But know the old adage, why worry if you have nothing to hide ;)

But here’s where it gets super-creepy
Click to expand...
After two workers thought they had picked up a sexual assault, they were told it wasn’t Amazon’s job to interfere.

So how are they listening to this private and sometimes shocking information? For a start, the reviewers are required to record the data whether the device has been activated on purpose or not. Meanwhile, if the reviewers hear any private details such as people’s names or bank details, they are told to simply mark it as “critical data” and move on to the next audio file.

What does Amazon say?
Amazon says the recordings aren’t widespread - and they are for a purpose. “We only annotate an extremely small number of interactions from a random set of customers in order to improve the customer experience,”
Click to expand...
 
Marc said:
Why is it worrying?
Click to expand...
If you read back through you will see that its listening in, sometimes random sometimes more often.
Is it OK for me to drop by unannounced and sit in the corner of your house listen in to all the conversations you have with Mrs F and or the cat?
Or the supposedly private telephone calls make?

Sounds creepy put like that doesn't it?
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Why do you think targeted ads are a problem? Adverts are inevitable unless you're paying for a service so would you rather see something that might interest you or some random crap?

No different to (famously) Target sending coupons to people who they guess to be pregnant based on their in store activities
Click to expand...

sphexx said:
Stop worrying, love Big Brother and he will look after you :cool:.
Click to expand...

That made me laugh.The emoticon was well chosen. (y)


Ricky... Judging by what you’ve written you‘ve clearly overlooked the wider implications as does Marc. When you next log on I assume you’ll read the posts by Cobra and Richard (sphexx) Included in Cobra’s 9.03 post today is a link worth reading too as are the links included in Richard’s post at 10.19.Have a read of them and you’ll see why the use of Alexa and these Echo speakers etc are a serious breach of your privacy and in addition, as Richard says.. “ who knows where Alexa will end up”

There’s a world of difference between what Alexa is doing and what you gave as a similar activity... ie...supermarkets monitoring your shop via the ‘loyalty cards’ and acting on that information.What a clever idea that was.

I contacted Sainsbury’s last year and complained about the letter I received from them along with money off and extra points offers and saying that they hoped we enjoyed our trip to the Helston store.. We go twice a year to a cottage between Helston and Lizard, Cornwall. It’s a little under a 5 hour drive,with a stop. We shop at Sainsburys here at home and save all the offers and use them when we do our shop,upon arrival down there, at Sainsbury’s,Helston. Of course they know we shopped there but by writing to us like that it felt as though our movements we were being monitored. The person I spoke to just didn’t get it and was even sarcastic saying he’d bring it to the attention of management ‘immediately’.

I told him it’s like him walking down the main street at home and having some kind of accident..a fall maybe... and the facial recognition cctv identifies him and the council send him a get well card...Ok..a bit extreme but you see my point ?
 
Cobra said:
If you read back through you will see that its listening in, sometimes random sometimes more often.
Is it OK for me to drop by unannounced and sit in the corner of your house listen in to all the conversations you have with Mrs F and or the cat?
Or the supposedly private telephone calls make?

Sounds creepy put like that doesn't it?
Click to expand...
sphexx said:
Stop worrying, love Big Brother and he will look after you :cool:.
Click to expand...
JohnC6 said:
That made me laugh.The emoticon was well chosen. (y)


Ricky... Judging by what you’ve written you‘ve clearly overlooked the wider implications as does Marc. When you next log on I assume you’ll read the posts by Cobra and Richard (sphexx) Included in Cobra’s 9.03 post today is a link worth reading too as are the links included in Richard’s post at 10.19.Have a read of them and you’ll see why the use of Alexa and these Echo speakers etc are a serious breach of your privacy and in addition, as Richard says.. “ who knows where Alexa will end up”

There’s a world of difference between what Alexa is doing and what you gave as a similar activity... ie...supermarkets monitoring your shop via the ‘loyalty cards’ and acting on that information.What a clever idea that was.

I contacted Sainsbury’s last year and complained about the letter I received from them along with money off and extra points offers and saying that they hoped we enjoyed our trip to the Helston store.. We go twice a year to a cottage between Helston and Lizard, Cornwall. It’s a little under a 5 hour drive,with a stop. We shop at Sainsburys here at home and save all the offers and use them when we do our shop,upon arrival down there, at Sainsbury’s,Helston. Of course they know we shopped there but by writing to us like that it felt as though our movements we were being monitored. The person I spoke to just didn’t get it and was even sarcastic saying he’d bring it to the attention of management ‘immediately’.

I told him it’s like him walking down the main street at home and having some kind of accident..a fall maybe... and the facial recognition cctv identifies him and the council send him a get well card...Ok..a bit extreme but you see my point ?
Click to expand...

I really have no time for all this paranoia. As has already been said, there aren't loads of headphone wearing Amazon employees sitting in cubicles hanging on our every word. As for reading links, I have better things to do with my time than sifting through scaremongering conspiracy theories.
 
Marc said:
I really have no time for all this paranoia. As has already been said, there aren't loads of headphone wearing Amazon employees sitting in cubicles hanging on our every word. As for reading links, I have better things to do with my time than sifting through scaremongering conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...
It funny that you’re avatar seems to give the lie to that — looks like you (he?) has a cage of rats approaching :cool:.
 
That's no way to talk about Mrs F.!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top