BIG STOPPER in every sense ?

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Mark
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Here is an absolutely amazing piece of information for anyone out there who is after a 10 Stop ND Filter made by Lee Filters more commonly called a BIG STOPPER.

The effects obtained by the 10 stop fitters is something I have been wanting to get in the can for some time so back on 3rd November 2010 I took the plunge, flashed the plastic and ordered one from Warehouse Express. Hell they are not a cheap bit of kit but what the heck in for a penny in for £91.99..

Having read a few reports, I fully expected to hear there was a delay and sure enough, they came back straight away quoting 8 to 10 weeks deliver :eek:

Well yesterday saw the 10 week date come and go so I emailed Warehouse Express and they emailed back with a very vague response so I emailed them again to clarify when I would get to receive my filter... Here is their response in full;

Thank you for your recent email. Yes we are currently estimating an extra 8-10 weeks although it could be longer. We have had production delays so stock is still coming through very slowly. You are currently positioned 87th on the back order list for this item.

Now this begs two questions;

(1) How hard can it be to manufacture these over priced pieces of equipment :shrug:

(2) If I am 87th on the list now after being on it for 10 weeks, how may were on the list 10 weeks ago and why are Warehouse Express not telling their customers the truth from the start..

Lee Filters :thumbsdown:

Warehouse Express :thumbsdown:

M.
 
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The problem lies with Lee, and not Warehouse Express - everybody else and them are on the mercy of Lee making them at the moment. It's not just the Big Stoppers, Lee also can't seem to make grads etc quick enough at the moment, as they are all hand made (BS from memory is bought in from overseas though). Nice to see there is still demand in a digital/HDR/photoshop world!

At the moment wherever you go there will be problems, I was on the waiting list at Robert White but managed to get one today from Dale Photographic, but I think their stock has now gone again.
 
Has anyon thought about using two polarizing filters, I recall back in the mists of time in Physics when polarized glass was new, rotating two pieces and watching it go dark. So in theory this should work I guess.
 
Theres plenty of other decent brands out there though, Heliopan 10 stops are meant to be the bomb, they are threaded mind and not slot in ones but still, then there's B+W, singh-ray... and welding glass :) no idea about colour casts on them though but still.
 
Waiting to purchase mine as well, but its the B+W 10 stop one from maxsaver.
After reading a bit though, I'm now considering the 6 stop one as I already have a circular polarizer. Stacking them should give me 8 stops.
I wonder if the 10 stop is too much light reduction? A 1/60 shot will be increased to 17 seconds, a little long when a few seconds alone is enough to smoothen flowing water.
 
artyman said:
Has anyon thought about using two polarizing filters, I recall back in the mists of time in Physics when polarized glass was new, rotating two pieces and watching it go dark. So in theory this should work I guess.
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I don't think that works with circular polarizers, but it definitely works with linear, probably adds a colour cast though.
 
It seems a ridiculous situation this as i wanted to go with the Big Stopper well before xmas and it was the same then. I weighed up the price of the full kit (bare in mind you need to spend another £60 odd on the Foundation Kit and Adapter ring) and ended up going for the Heliopan 10 Stop and a Manfrotto 190 XProb & 496 RCT Ball Head. I think the Heliopan is awesome and also have a few welding glasses to play with. I still would love the Lee system as i realise ive given my self a problem if i want to use a grad also. To get round that ive got the Hitech ND Kit along with Hard & Soft Grads to use in the Cokin P Holder. I got my Heliopan and Hitech from Teamwork but they also sell Lee. Interestingly they are saying MArch for the Big Stopper!! Ridiculous in this day and age:cuckoo:
http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index
Phil
 
User Name said:
I don't think that works with circular polarizers, but it definitely works with linear, probably adds a colour cast though.
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It works with one of each - as long as you get them in the right order. From memory, lens, circ pol, linear pol.
 
Why not get a B&W ten stopper off Ebay immediately for less than that?
 
vaizki said:
I'll get the word in before HoppyUK does..

Lightcraft Workshop does a very good ND500 (9 stop) filter at 77mm.. I've no complaints with it and compares very favourably to my friend's BW.

UK people buy here.. http://www.premier-ink.co.uk/photographic/threaded-filters/light-craft-workshop/lcw-nd500mc/-c-60_365_790_791.html

.. I had to order direct from LCW to Finland..
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:lol: That's the one :) I also think the Heliopan is worth a look.

The cross-polarisers thing works in theory, but not well in practise. You get a big dark pattern appearing when the density gets reasonably dark which really shows up badly with wide-angles. It's how the Singh Ray and LCW variable NDs work. I sent mine back, as did others on here. There are a few threads on it.

But if you want square, then it's got to be Lee. The supply problem I think is down to Lee completely underestimating demand, and they now have half of the US waiting for these things as well. I spoke to them when the Big Stopper was introduced last year and they were not that enthusiastic TBH - they thought it was just the latest fad. They import the Big Stopper from the Far East and I guess their supplier is working flat out, but reluctant to gear up to fulfil heavy early demand which is bound to tail off once the backlog is cleared.
 
artyman said:
What about stacking two ND 4's if they are more readily available
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ND4 is two stops, so two would be four stops. Plus potential image degradation and vignetting issues with wide angles.

A lot of folks do it though. Something like an ND8 (three stops) is widely available and cheap, and if you stack that with a polariser of around two stops, you have a net five stops of light reduction. With low ISO and a highish f/number, that is usually enough for most things in anything but bright sun light.
 
:thinking:

This thread reminds me of the saying "keep your eye on the squirrel" because the initial points have been lost in the well intentioned attempts at offering alternative options to buying a Big Stopper :bang:
:lol:
 
I ordered mine from WHE and had to wait about 4 weeks. I paid and forgot about it...which is pretty stupid! They called to confirm that I still wanted the filter. This was about six months ago though...
 
I would love to have the knowlage/know how to make these and go into business maufacturing decent glass filters, what with Cokin going into administration, and Lee dragging there heels, what an oppertunity this presents.
 
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stumeech said:
The problem lies with Lee, and not Warehouse Express - everybody else and them are on the mercy of Lee making them at the moment..
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Yep, what Stu said. It's quite simply a case of demand is greater than supply at the Lee manufacturing process. Patience grasshopper.
 
Did I not read somewhere that they have a machine down or sub quality component issues?
 
how about using welding glass, should do the same thing

:)
 
It seems people are prepared to pay double list price for a big stopper with immediate delivery. A second hand one went on ebay a few days back for £195. Seems the seller has even more to sell - but for a price.

Something tells me he's onto a winner here while Lee can't keep up with demand.
 
Lesco said:
I would love to have the knowlage/know how

don't forget the multi £ of equipment...

to make these and go into business maufacturing decent glass filters, what with ***Cokin going into administration***,

and Lee dragging there heels, ***what an oppertunity this presents***.
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I suspect if it were such a good one then cokin would not be in such trouble?
 
Hi iPhoto,

Apologies for the delay in getting your Big Stopper Filter to you. I'm afraid we really are at the mercy of Lee and any timescales they provide us. Unfortunately the delay in obtaining these filters has not put people off ordering them, but rest assured that we do not take payment until we are dispatching the goods to you.

This is an interesting fact about Lee that may go some way to explaining the delay in getting some of their more popular filters.

We first approached Lee several years ago to ask if we could sell their filters. Back then (maybe 5-6 years ago) they were only available through one or two smaller retailers, and we though t that Warehouse Express could do well for them. Their response then was surprising but refreshingly honest. They advised that they did not want to be distributed through any large retailers as they did not feel they would be able to support the demand this would generate.

Lee filters were, as are now, a top quality photographic product. All the filters were dipped (coloured) by hand to ensure accurate colours and the best possible image quality (unlike some of the more mass produced filters, their ND filters are actually neutral) and their entire system is reassuringly well made. As such they were happier to maintain a limited market to ensure the quality did not dip.

Fast forward a few years and every pro landscape photographer (plus others) featured in magazine articles and books are recommending Lee filters as the best money can buy. Little wonder then that even with their limited distribution channels the demand for Lee filter grew and grew. As such, Lee have looked to expand their team of retailers, including Warehouse Express. This means that their filters are now far more widely available. However, Lee still maintain the manufacturing processes that have guaranteed the best quality product, and this does mean that despite the huge growth in demand, production levels have not increased dramatically.

If you want the best possible filter system that the pros use and that, up until a few years ago, was something of a trade secret, the good thing is that you can now order these products far more easily. The down side is that you may have to wait a while.

If it’s any consolation, it will be worth it.

Ben
 
iPhoto said:
:thinking:

This thread reminds me of the saying "keep your eye on the squirrel" because the initial points have been lost in the well intentioned attempts at offering alternative options to buying a Big Stopper :bang:
:lol:
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Well, from the tone of your OP, it sounded like you'd had enough waiting around and wanted to consider the alternatives. I'm sure that both Lee Filters and Warehouse Express wouldn't be unduly worried by one order being cancelled :shrug:.

As Ben (above) said, you won't have been charged yet, so your options are still wide open :).
 
If its any help to anyone, maxsaver just restocked some thread sizes for the B+W filters, 10 stops included. Delivery is 1 week or so, but probably still faster than the long wait on LEE filters.
 
I'm sorry Naboo32 but I cant see where in my OP it indicates I was considering alternatives, I posted these 2 questions;


(1) How hard can it be to manufacture these over priced pieces of equipment

(2) If I am 87th on the list now after being on it for 10 weeks, how many were on the list 10 weeks ago and why are Warehouse Express not telling their customers the truth from the start..

Ben has put the case on behalf of WE but it still didnt answer question 2. It remains my view WE should make clear to customers when they acknowledge the order that there is a VERY VERY long waiting list and what number that customer is on the list. Instead they stated 8 to 10 weeks delivery which it is now clear to me and would have been known to them at the time was extremely optimistic.

I remain on the waiting list and as explained I have now been quoted a further 8 to 10 weeks. In all honestly I fully expect WE to fail to deliver within that time frame but if they do I shall be straight onto this thread to commend them... Watch this space :suspect:

I don't see how cancelling the order after 10 weeks and going to the bottom of another waiting list would be a viable or worthwhile alternative :shrug:

Mark
 
iPhoto said:
I'm sorry Naboo32 but I cant see where in my OP it indicates I was considering alternatives, I posted these 2 questions;


(1) How hard can it be to manufacture these over priced pieces of equipment

(2) If I am 87th on the list now after being on it for 10 weeks, how many were on the list 10 weeks ago and why are Warehouse Express not telling their customers the truth from the start..
...

Mark
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OK Mark, my bad!

But you can't deny that your post makes it sound like you're fed up with the situation and since there's nothing that anyone here can do about that, I guess that they just wanted to offer you some alternative suggestions :shrug:.

Anyway, if time is more important than money, why not just get three of these from WE and stack them together - at least they're in stock :D ...

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-lee-neutral-density-0-9-proglass-filter/p1018205
 
iPhoto said:
I'm sorry Naboo32 but I cant see where in my OP it indicates I was considering alternatives, I posted these 2 questions;


(1) How hard can it be to manufacture these over priced pieces of equipment

(2) If I am 87th on the list now after being on it for 10 weeks, how many were on the list 10 weeks ago and why are Warehouse Express not telling their customers the truth from the start..

Ben has put the case on behalf of WE but it still didnt answer question 2. It remains my view WE should make clear to customers when they acknowledge the order that there is a VERY VERY long waiting list and what number that customer is on the list. Instead they stated 8 to 10 weeks delivery which it is now clear to me and would have been known to them at the time was extremely optimistic.

I remain on the waiting list and as explained I have now been quoted a further 8 to 10 weeks. In all honestly I fully expect WE to fail to deliver within that time frame but if they do I shall be straight onto this thread to commend them... Watch this space :suspect:

I don't see how cancelling the order after 10 weeks and going to the bottom of another waiting list would be a viable or worthwhile alternative :shrug:

Mark
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That's the problem with public forums like this - you post a question and a lot of helpful folks come along and offer generous advice. Immediately, and free of charge, for anyone to benefit from. It's a pretty good system, even if it doesn't please everybody.

Clearly, manufacturing these things is harder than you might think. Unless of course, there is a whole factory full of people sitting around and deliberately doing nothing when there is good money to be made. Generally speaking, I find this is not the case. More likely, it is a small team of skilled craftsmen and women working their butts off to keep everybody happy as best they can.
 
iPhoto,

One of the difficulties we face is providing an accurate timescale in situations like this when the manufacturer is unable to provide us with accurate information. We have two options; we either give you an estimate based on the current waiting list and previous delivery quantities and timescales, or we refuse to offer an estimate on the basis that Lee themselves can not provide a date. Understandably, the latter is not particularly popular, so we try, where possible, to provide an educated guess on the understanding that it is just that. I can only apologise that in this instance it appears we have led to you believe that the waiting time quoted was rather more concrete than it actually was.

Bear in mind that over the past few months we have been receiving deliveries of the Big Stopper filter every 4-6 weeks, but that the quantities shipped have varied dramatically from 100 on one occasion, to just 10 on our most recent delivery. As such, if we had spoken to you when we were getting shipments of 50 to 100 filters every four weeks, the timescale we would have given you may have been entirely inaccurate if the deliveries then changed to 10 to 20 filters every 6 weeks.

Needless to say, Lee are getting these filters out as quickly as possible and as soon as they come in to Warehouse Express, we get them out to our customers as soon as we are able. Lee do not operate the same mass-production methods as other manufacturers which explains both why their delivery schedule is occasionally slow and irregular, but also how they have managed to maintain their high standards of product quality.

I hope that we are indeed able to get your filter to you as quickly as possible so that you can get out and use it!

Ben
 
It's arrived! Woop woop :clap:

2323w.jpg


Dale Photographic had some in on Friday
 
buckas said:
:thumbs:

5 minute drive :D

drew
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Lucky you! I'm only 30mins so it's not too bad.

Incidentally, I read WE's response to this thread and thought it was 100% on the money - it is frustrating to get hold of one of these at the moment but the difficultly is really that we are all at the mercy of Lee. Worth it though for the quality of their products.
 
As someone who knows quite a bit about Lee filters, can I point you to this page on their web site which explains the position.
http://www.leefilters.com/camera/

I hope this helps the explanation, although it doesn't help the frustration!

Ben at WE has also been very honest and fair in his comments.

George
 
George said:
As someone who knows quite a bit about Lee filters, can I point you to this page on their web site which explains the position.
http://www.leefilters.com/camera/

I hope this helps the explanation, although it doesn't help the frustration!

Ben at WE has also been very honest and fair in his comments.

George
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Hmmm The inference being that I haven’t :nono:

If this had been an overnight development I would acknowledge the explanation given on the Lee website but as it is a long term issue I read it as an excuse and a poor one at that. Some may be prepared to ignore poor service and say nothing but given the price of the items in question I frankly find it unacceptable on the part of Lee Filters :shrug:

I agree about the response by Ben from WE, however, that is a response to the point raised and should in my view have been an explanation that went out with the initial confirmation of the order.

Will I cancel that order, hardly. I see little point in cutting off my nose to spite my face but I reserve the right to voice my disquiet as per the OP. :rules:
 
iPhoto said:
Hmmm The inference being that I haven’t :nono:

If this had been an overnight development I would acknowledge the explanation given on the Lee website but as it is a long term issue I read it as an excuse and a poor one at that. Some may be prepared to ignore poor service and say nothing but given the price of the items in question I frankly find it unacceptable on the part of Lee Filters :shrug:

I agree about the response by Ben from WE, however, that is a response to the point raised and should in my view have been an explanation that went out with the initial confirmation of the order.

Will I cancel that order, hardly. I see little point in cutting off my nose to spite my face but I reserve the right to voice my disquiet as per the OP. :rules:
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Mark, sorry that was not meant to be implied, and if that's the way it came over I apologise!!:'(

The truth of the matter is that the demand for the big stopper was way more than was initially envisaged and as has been pointed out elsewhere, the supply tap simply cannot be turned on quickly. Sadly there is quite a rejection rate in the manufacturing process, and Lee won't ship anything out of tolerance.
George
 
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